CT The Lost Cut and the editing of Star Wars (A Star Wars Myth)

Recently, I've grown frustrated by some of the extended misconceptions about how Star Wars (both the original film and its sequels) were made.
There are many examples of extended myths and stories surrounding these movies that, in a lot of cases, are based on a mix of truth and faulty information (and in some occasions, with a clear agenda behind it). I feel they oversimplify the complexities of making such huge films, and distort the reality of how films are made.

The big myth I wanted to discuss, the one that it's been bothering me lately, is the so-called "Lost Cut" of Star Wars. Again, using elements of truth, a myth has been extended, helped by popular Youtube videos ("how Star Wars was saved in the editing" and others).
The legend basically says something along these lines: the Lost Cut is the first cut of Star Wars, created by John Jympson. It was a full cut of the movie with all the deleted scenes, following script order... It was screened and deemed a disaster by everyone who saw it, including Lucas' friends. Later, a team of three editors, Richard Chew, Paul Hirsch and Marcia Lucas, re-edited the movie, deleted many scenes and created a masterpiece.
(A more harmful version of the story says that Lucas made the first cut, it was a deemed a disaster by everyone, and then Marcia Lucas came in and re-edited the whole movie to save it: therefore, Lucas is a fraud).

So, what's up with this Lost Cut really?

-From what I know from reading about the making off the film, Joe Jympson edited the scenes as they were shooting the film, and worked on an early cut of the film, which was never completed because he was fired before shooting was over (although right now I can't find when exactly happened). He never had access to any special effects (they didn't even exist back then). Therefore, Jympson's edit is an incomplete version of the film, and it wasn't screened for anyone. Is this the mythical Lost Cut?

-Once shooting was completed, in August 1976 Marcia Lucas, Richard Chew and Lucas himself started working on a new edit of the film, starting from scratch. Paul Hirsch joined them later. They finished a "first cut" by October/November. This first cut included all the scenes from the script, following the script order, and incorporated the World-War II footage in place of the special effects. There was no temporary music, nor sound effects or ADR dialogue, and it was screened for the people working in the film. Could this be the infamous Lost Cut?

-After the first cut, they eliminated a few scenes (Jabba and Luke's friends on Tatooine), re-edited Obi-Wan's home scene, shortened the final battle eliminating one trench run, and they added the tension of the Death Star about to fire the rebel base.

-Marcia Lucas left the film at the end of November, before the next cut was finished by December. By then, the editing on the final battle was completed, but using World War II footage only.

-In January 1977 Richard Chew left the film as well. Around this time, a temporary soundtrack was created, sound effects were added, and pick-ups were shot. Paul Hirsch was the only editor by this time.

-The next cut (third cut?), finished in January 1977, was the one that got screened for outsiders. John Williams worked on this cut, the studio executives saw it, and this is the cut Lucas screened for his friends. Lucas' friends still considered the film a disaster (except for Spielberg), even after both Richard Chew and Marcia Lucas had left the picture! And yet, this cannot be the Lost Cut!

-Following the imput of Lucas' friends, the opening crawl was rewritten, and the order of the early Death Star scenes was changed to improve the pacing. Matte paintings and visual effects were added, giving the film a more complete and polished look, and the final music was recorded and added as well. This final cut (around March 1977) seems to have been succesful at last.

So, from what I can gather:
-Joe Jympson's edit was never completed, nor screened for anyone.
-The mythical Lost Cut is most probably the first cut by Chew/Hirsch/Marcia Lucas (and maybe wasn't as bad as it seems)
-The "editing that saved Star Wars" happened gradually over the months, and by the end, only one editor remained working in the movie.
-The cut that Lucas screened for his friends and they hated it (which led to a few revisions) was at least a third cut, and by that time both Marcia and Richard Chew were not working on the film. Probably, most of the scenes were already in their final form. The main problem, therefore, seems to be the lack of matte paintings and visual effects.

What are your thoughts about the whole process of editing the first Star Wars movie? Is there anything I am missing?
What do you think the Lost Cut really is? Does anyone know something more about it?

 

I say there is no lost cut

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I don't think there is a lost cut either. Lucas has given credit to Marcia for her editing on ANH. Lucas is a visionary filmmaker but needs a strong editor for pacing purposes. I know ROTS had to be edited down quite a bit.

 

Clearly there is an early cut of the film that was identified as the "Lost Cut" - perhaps erroneously - by David West Reynolds, who watched a black-and-white 13-reel copy of it that was in the Lucasfilm archives, and wrote about it in Star Wars Insider in the late 1990s. Its existence isn't what is in question.

Rather, this thread is asking who precisely was responsible for it, and at what stage of the editing process it was made. And: how does it differ from other early cuts of the movie, which was gradually edited and re-edited over a series of months?

 

That's why my assumption is that Reynolds was talking about the first cut, made by Chew, Hirsch and Marcia Lucas, that followed the script order and included all the scenes.
Jympson's cut was never a complete cut, as far as I'm aware of, and it definitely didn't include the WWII footage (ergo, it didn't include the final battle).
But clearly, he's not referring to the cut that Lucas showed to his friends in February 1977, because that cut was already very close to the final cut. Therefore, it couldn't have been such a disastrous cut - even if it's reported as such.

 

I feel like I know just enough about how movies are made to understand that a ton of people have no idea whatsoever how movies are made, with the editing process being a particularly serious offender. This capital-letters "Lost Cut" always struck me as an example of that.

 

There was a story in an issue of Star Wars Insider of the article writer watching a different cut of ANH at the ranch. The cut was long and languid and had (again IIRC from twenty plus years ago!) lots of alternative shots of Luke and C3PO in the landspeeder - including POV shots.

That maybe the source of some of these rumours.

Another source could be the fact that TPM was completely redited late in the day to try and save it. That was captured (the edge of it at least) in the TPM Making Of Documentary.

So people could be conflating that story with the "this is bantha poodoo" story from the first rough showing to De Palma, Milius, Spielberg.

UKS

 

That all sound like normal film editing process to me, for the most part.

 

yeah i don't think there's a lost cut. Lucas said he always wanted each character to take you to the next one and that's why he eliminated the early Luke scenes.

as for the TPM re-editing i never heard that. I heard Lucas simplified the battles at the end because he had too many cuts. What i heard was there was a scene of Bail Antilles that he cut. I'm guessing maybe there was a scene where Palpatine is elected Chancellor and he just decided that was not needed.

 

What was captured was Lucas screening a rough cut of the film, saying that there were things that didn't work, and talking about how to improve them. That's what happens with every movie. Re-editing is just the natural process.

But as far as I know, TPM was not "completely" re-edited "late" in the day to try to "save" it.

 

The Bail Antilles character played by Adrian Dunbar was originally Bail Organa, and he was meant to appear seconding Padme's motion for a vote of no confidence in Chancellor Valorum. But when the role was recast with Jimmy Smits in AOTC, the previous version of Bail from that deleted scene was retconned into Bail Antilles (apparently because he's glimpsed on-screen in the theatrical cut of TPM for a fraction of a second).

I do wonder if you might be right about a scene of Palpatine being elected Chancellor in TPM being on the cutting room floor.

 

i wondered that because GL said someone he showed the film to made a comment about all the stories going on and as soon as he heard that he agreed. So i figured that might have been a likely thing he would have tried to intercut.

 

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This is getting off-topic, but I stand by what I said. If you want evidence in the public domain, look how chopped around Williams score was at the end of the movie, and look at the public statements of dissatisfaction with that, that he made. I am one of the few human beings on earth who liked TPM and still like it. (I watched it last night!) But it did have big problems and it was worked on till late in the day. Not TROS level bad or late - But it was in flux because of severe issues with it.

If you want my *opinion*, I think Lucas became so enamoured with his love and skill as an editor, that he thought he could save anything in the edit. Thus the core footage on TPM just wasn't good enough. (acting, dialog etc)

Linking this back to the topic in hand - Star Wars (ANH) looked bad in the rushes. It came together in the edit. The rough edit (done during filming) wasn't getting the job done. That is all true. But that was early in the experience, not late.

 

The "Lost Cut" of ANH is the work print, nothing more. An assembly of all scenes shot before the editing process began and as a guide for ILM, who at the time were struggling massively. The basic prposeoblem with this version is obvious, it doesn't work because Luke is introduced to early, but then it was never meant to work, that's not it's purpose.

 

Not to drag Lucas through too much mud, but Marcia and Chew were only able to create what we saw on screen by using ALL of the bits of footage that Lucas captured. They were using footage from before and after the claps to get cutaways to the droids and other characters. I mean, there are cutaways to Artoo on the Falcon that are actually from the Death Star control room and other bits from all over the place. This was truly a labor of love from Marcia so she put in the effort to essentially fix her husbands movie. Jympson probably just didn't care enough to start poring through every little scrap of film that came in from Tunisia and the studio.

Lucas even admits that he didn't get everything from Tunisia that he wanted. That's where Marcia and Richard Chew and everything else comes into place. They created cutaways in order to improve pacing because otherwise the first act of Star Wars would have been beyond boring. Not to hate on the PT, but can you imagine the first forty minutes of Star Wars just being shot, reverse shot?

 

Maria, Chew AND Hirsch (don't forget him) edited the movie with Lucas closely supervising the whole process. What you say about how they had to use every footage available is true, but they did it along with Lucas. It was a collaboration.
Lucas was well aware of the fact that what he had shot was often not good enough, but he did what he could under the circumstances, and counted on the editing process to "fix" the movie from the beginning (which is the way he likes to work, anyway).

Again, you seem to forget that Lucas worked closely (as any director does) with his three editors to edit the film, so it's not a case of anyone fixing anyone's job. It's a case of working hard together to edit a very difficult film.
(And it's not about downplaying Marcia's role, but she worked on a very specific section of the film, and left the film earlier than the other two editors).

I don't really see how this relates to the editing. They went to Death Valley to shoot the stuff they didn't get in Tunisia.
As every other section of the film, what they got was less than what they hoped, but just enough to make it work. (as you say, using everything they had and more).

 

Well, the entire Death Star countdown for destroying Yavin was created in the edit by Marcia. In the original there was no Yavin threat and Luke took two attempts at the Death Star trench run! As was said above, they had to fake it with voice overs, crowd shots, cutaways and looks given by Leia and C3PO(!)

 

Novelization has two attempts too:


"We'll stay far enough back to cover you," Biggs declared. "At that speed will you be able to pull out in time?"
"Are you kidding?" Luke sneered playfully as they began their dive toward the surface. "It'll be just like Beggars Canyon back home."
"I'm right with you, boss," noted Wedge, emphasizing the title for the first time. "Let's go…"
At high speed the three slim fighters charged the glowing surface, pulling out after the last moment. Luke skimmed so close over the station hull that the tip of one wing grazed a protruding antenna, sending metal splinters flying. Instantly they were enveloped in a meshwork of energy bolts and explosive projectiles. It intensified as they dropped down into the trench. "We seemed to have upset them," Biggs chortled, treating the deadly display of energy as though it were all a show being put on for their amusement.
"This is fine," Luke commented, surprised at the clear view ahead. "I can see everything."
Wedge wasn't quite as confident as he studied his own readouts. "My scope shows the tower, but I can't make out the exhaust port. It must be awfully small. Are you sure the computer can target it?"
"It better," Biggs muttered.
Luke didn't offer an evaluation—he was too busy holding a course through the turbulence produced by exploding bolts. Then, as if on command, the defensive fire ceased. He glanced around and up for sign of the expected TIE fighters, but saw nothing.
His hand went to drop the targeting visor into position, and for just a moment he hesitated. Then he swung it down in front of his eyes. "Watch yourselves," he ordered his companions.
"What about the tower?" Wedge asked worriedly.
"You worry about those fighters," Luke snapped. "I'll worry about the tower."
They rushed on, closing on the target every second. Wedge stared upward, and his gaze suddenly froze. "Here they come—oh point three."
Vader was setting his controls when one of his wingmen broke attack silence. "They're making their approach too fast—they'll never get out in time."
"Stay with them," Vader commanded.
"They're going too fast to get a fix," his other pilot announced with certainty.
Vader studied several readouts and found that his sensors confirmed the other estimates. "They'll still have to slow down before they reach that tower."
Luke contemplated the view in his targeting visor. "Almost home." Seconds passed and the twin circlets achieved congruence. His finger convulsed on the firing control. "Torpedoes away! Pull up, pull up."
Two powerful explosions rocked the trench, striking harmlessly far to one side of the minute opening. Three TIE fighters shot out of the rapidly dissipating fireball, closing on the retreating rebels. "Take them," Vader ordered softly.
Luke detected the pursuit at the same time as his companions. "Wedge, Biggs, split up—it's the only way we'll shake them."
The three ships dropped toward the station, then abruptly raced off in three different directions. All three TIE fighters turned and followed Luke.
Vader fired on the crazily dodging ship, missed, and frowned to himself. "The force is strong with this one. Strange. I'll take him myself."
Luke darted between defensive towers and wove a tight path around projecting docking bays, all to no avail. A single remaining TIE fighter stayed close behind. An energy bolt nicked one wing, close by an engine. It started to spark irregularly, threateningly. Luke fought to compensate and retain full control.


"We're going in," Luke declared as he commenced his dive toward the surface. Wedge and Biggs followed just aft.
"Let go—Luke," a voice he had heard before sounded inside his head. Again he tapped his helmet and looked around. It sounded as if the speaker were standing just behind him. But there was nothing, only silent metal and nonverbal instrumentation. Puzzled, Luke turned back to his controls.
Once more, energy bolts reached out for them, passing harmlessly on both sides as the surface of the battle station charged up into his face. But the defensive fire wasn't the cause of the renewed trembling Luke suddenly experienced. Several critical gauges were beginning their swing back into the danger zone again.
He leaned toward the pickup. "Artoo, those stabilizing elements must have broken loose again. See if you can't lock it back down—I've got to have full control."
Ignoring the bumpy ride, the energy beams and explosions lighting space around him, the little robot moved to repair the damage.
Additional, tireless explosions continued to buffet the three fighters as they dropped into the trench. Biggs and Wedge dropped behind to cover for Luke as he reached to pull down the targeting visor.
For the second time a peculiar hesitation swept through him. His hand was slower yet as he finally pulled the device down in front of his eyes, almost as if the nerves were in conflict with one another. As expected, the energy beams stopped as if on signal and he was barreling down the trench unchallenged.
"Here we go again," Wedge declared as he spotted three Imperial fighters dropping down on them.

 

Yeah, that's right, although it's not right to suggest that this is something Marcia did on her own (against George's wishes, or without him knowing).
We don't know whose idea was it to combine the two runs, but in any case, it was a natural process of collaboration between director and editor, in which Marcia was the editor of the sequence and Lucas, as the director, supervised the process.

 

The problem is most lay people don't know what editing actually is. This is the chief flaw of the How Star Wars Was Saved In The Edit video. It's core assumption is that editing is strictly about what scenes you take out and how you order them. That's maybe 10% of the job. The other 90% is constructing those scenes to be deleted or re-ordered.

To explain, when they shoot a scene they will cover it from a number of different angles. The editing process is about deciding which perspective, which angle we will see and when. This YouTube video presents a full 30 minutes of coverage from the Yoda death scene. (). Not that the scene was 30 minutes, but when you run each take wide angles, medium shots, close ups, over the shoulders, etc end to end that's how long it runs.

Editorial pacing is determined by how short or how long the editor is holding onto to an angle before cutting to another one. This was the problem with the Jympson cut as far as Lucas was concerned. He was holding onto the shots for longer than what Lucas would have liked him to.

Back in those days editing was done on a physical medium and literally cut and spliced together from prints made from the original camera negative called work prints. If you needed to recut a scene, you had to physically break the work print apart which is what they had to do upon returning to the states when production wrapped.

In order to screen work prints they would make black and white duplicates of it. This is why in general deleted scenes will be in color (Anchorhead) while reworked scenes will be in black and white (cantina, Luke in the bacta tank). The reworked scene will be broken apart to be recut while the deleted scene being out altogether doesn't need to be broken apart. The reworked scene ceases to exist save for those black and white screening prints.

Which brings us to the cut David West Reynolds saw which he says was the Jympson cut. Everything he says about is consistent with that. It was all in black and white, meaning 100% of it was reworked into a different cut. He described it as feeling more documentary-like. It's hard to know what that means, but in general cinema verite is slower editorially because the emphasis is on realism. Editing tends to indicate someone behind the wheel, so to speak, pulling your attention where they want you to look which is consistent with the slower pace Lucas complained about.

Reynolds mentions there being a lot of alternate angles being used. This is what you would expect if you had two different sets of editors making their own cuts from the available raw footage. No two editors are going to use the same angle covering the same moment for exactly the same length of time.

The problem with the community of fans trying to piece together the "Lost Cut" from the deleted scenes is that those deleted scenes aren't from the Jympson cut. They’re from the Lucas/Chew/Hirsch cut. You can't really replicate the Jympson cut without the raw footage and even if you had it you wouldn't be able to replicate it without the black and white print as a guide.

 

This is why when I hear people wanting to see the "original four hour cut" of ROTS I can only assume they know nothing of editing. A four hour long cut of ROTS would be boring. It'd be every scene we saw, plus the deleted scenes... and ALL OF IT would be edited to be much slower in pacing. It'd most likely be uneven and just shots strung together.

 

I think the initial problem with the roughest cuts of Star Wars was the lack of music, post-production effects, and the early Luke scenes. That's really about it. Once those were addressed, the film became a legendary piece of entertainment.

Pretty much. Probably about 20 or so minutes of the cut ROTS material would be entertaining and the rest would be really boring. I would've liked the Padme subplot and Dagobah scene back in. Other than that, I can't think of anything else that was filmed that I would want in the movie. Most of the Invisible hand antics were deleted for a reason. I wish Lucas would've finished filming a scene with Padme and Obi-Wan before he goes to Utapau. But IIRC they didn't finish filming it because Anthony Daniels fell over into a piece of the set.
Many earlier cuts of films aren't all they are cracked up to be. A lot of it contains more sluggish pacing, even if it's unique moments and not just coverage.

 

The the rough cut was bad claim does indeed feel like being overly, and unfairly, harsh to Lucas, wrongly denying him credit.

In particular, the (most of) his friends didn't like it claim seems probably misleading, maybe some of them outright did dislike it (not that their opinions are greater than those of other viewers) but it's probably as or more or likely they just thought it was really really weird/out there, didn't make sense and/or would maybe do OK but not be a big hit. And I think pretty much everyone agrees that the special effects and music did improve, play a big part in making the film work but also weren't the only good things but they work so well with the rest it's pretty hard and weird to think of them not being together.

 

That was just the very end sequence and the cutting between the ground, space and interior battle and looking at a first rough look at it.

 

I'd still love to see it though.