The Mandalorian The Mandalorian 2.04 - Chapter 12 - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Brendol Hux and Rae Sloane have already left the known Galaxy to found the First Order. The Mandalorian takes place years later.

 

Does anyone else unfocus or squint their eyes when selecting a new episode so they can’t see the picture and description?

 

I really don’t like the UR. All it does is facilitate the simplistic plot of the FO coming out of nowhere in the ST. Would have been far more interesting if the FO formed both behind a known armistice line between the NR and Imperial Remnant, as well as in secret (and not so secret) pockets throughout the NR, among those who felt the NR wasn’t living up to its promise of effective governance. The UR is the worst element of the new canon, IMO. A convenient parking lot for resetting villainy.

 

Plenty of parts of the First/Final Order I don't like either, but if they are gonna hit the scene in the new trilogy with new toys like the Starkiller Base, the Supremacy, the Resurgent and so on then they need to spend time between movies rebuilding unmolested at shipyards the New Republic doesn't know about.

 

I just really hated the retread First order/Final Order just being a reborn Empire....

Just my $0.02....I would have preferred a balkanized galaxy with dozens of polities...Yes a NR and an Imperial Remnant...but a bunch of other factions throughout. Then some new threat (not the Vong because I hate the concept of them) comes from the UR to try to conquer everyone.

 

One problem is a season and a half in, over 8 hrs of story telling, little to no character development has been given to gideon. The actor has nothing to chew on

 

I don't really see much of a problem with the FO coming out of nowhere. It isn't any different than German secret rearmament between the two world wars. And that is more or less the basis for the entire story anyway.

The bigger issue for me would be the endless fleet of Star Destroyers with planet-destroying weapons that somehow were created by yet another seperate entity. If the story had been that a significant part of the Imperial fleet had seemingly vanished, and was now reappearing, it would have made more sense. That way you don't have a random corner in the galaxy somehow building a fleet so large that it matched the might of the old Imperial navy, which was build with the resources of the entire galaxy.

Having the UR be a fallback posiion for the Empire or breeding ground for the First Order works. Having it be that AND also a haven for a Sith cult on top of that is a bit over the top. It really does feel like it just gets used to bring back any enemy in whatever strength deemed necessary.

 

Many of the characters have little character development

 

I very much agree with the idea of this post, that the First Order could have been built up in the known galaxy, and those 'how' could have made for some great political drama in the interim period.

However, the UR being used in this way isn't new to Disney's SW Era. This dates back to at least the Thrawn Trilogy from Legends, and was used extensively in the build up to NJO and Dark Nest. I am hoping that as its history is being written slowly through these stories, that it will be less a blank slate, and thus be less used as the 'mystery' place things happen in so they don't need to justify it.

 

Disagree, we actually know a decent about the mando and Cara and we learned a lot about the Nick Noltes character kuiil in season one. Even the child has now had more character development and he cant speak. Gideons only character development is a plot device aka dark saber.

 

He has great screen presence, though.

 

some people try to ignore the PT existed too

 

A lot of Gideon's character can be inferred just by his existence right now, too. For example, he isn't so much strictly a believer in Palpatine at this stage, but more so, he is a firm believer in what the Empire itself stands for at its core. Even with Palpatine out of the picture for the last five years, Gideon pushes on because he puts his faith in that vile system.

And it seems like he is about to be entering the narrative in a more pronounced way in the next episode, given Chapter 12's ending, so we will likely be seeing even more of his philosophy in the coming weeks.

 

The Mandalorian is made in the style of old western shows. and if you look at old shows, they were very much about watching a character travel from place to place helping people before moving on.

 

I agree with you Christopher; Moff Gideon should at the very least have more of a shadow presence every other episode or so. Like in the 1960’s show “The Fugitive”, where you would see glimpses of the Lt. Phillip after Dr. Kimble.

That’s just my opinion. But I’m overall happy with this series, it feels to me more like Star Wars then the sequels. Not only the characters, but the universe feels broader. Maybe it’s just me. -

Hope everyone is doing good out there! - cheers

 

I think that's entirely premature to say. He hasn't been in many scenes or the main focus yet over both seasons, so of course he hasn't had a ton of character development yet. It would be ridiculous to expect otherwise given the amount of screen time that storyline has been the focus. It would seem completely forced. I think what we've gotten so far, compared to his total amount of screen time, is perfectly fine. Let's see how things progress as that storyline develops and he's in more episodes.

 

Video Review


Take Mando, Greef Karga, and Cara Dune, add a little Mythrol, baby, you got a crew goin’!


Carl Weathers did a great job directing this episode. The shot of the Stormtroopers riding down the side of the mountain on speeder bikes was great – but also way too cool for Stormtroopers, so fittingly two of them crash and blow themselves up on the way down.


The world building is one of the ways this show really shines. Beyond the nods to past Star Wars stories, they’re doing a great job expanding on the established lore and fleshing out the Galaxy in the post-Empire era.


At this point, the sequel trilogy is finished, but the 30 year gap between Return of the Jedi and The Force Awakens is still a big question mark. Admittedly, I haven’t read a lot of the comics and novels, but for me personally, Star Wars works best through film and animation.


We find out New Republic haven’t settled the outer Rim, a task which the Empire also failed to accomplish in the duration of their rule. Which is interesting because the outer rim seems to be the place where the Imperial Remnants survives.


It was great seeing Greef Karga and Cara Dune again. I do wonder how much time has passed from the first season. The town has changed pretty noticeably and Greef Karga’s beard is now white.


There were a lot of great moments for the child in this episode. The scene where Mando attempts to explain to him how to repair the Razor Crest gave me Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 vibes. The first time The Child used the Force in season 1 was in a dramatic moment. The first time in season 2 is in service to his stomach, which seems to be a trend this season.


It was cool to see Mythrol fill the role droids usually occupy in these types of missions.


At the start of the episode, we see Mando briefly lift his mask halfway up his face to eat even with the Child in the room. I’m not sure if this is a regular occurrence we’re seeing for the first time or if perhaps his interaction with Bo Katan from the previous episode resonated with him on some level.


I fully expect Ahsoka Tano to finally make her live action debut in the next episode and I’m really excited. Will Sabine Wren or Captain Rex be with her? Is she still searching for Ezra Bridger? There are so many questions which I can’t wait to have answered.


It really feels like The Mandalorian is slowly building to a much bigger story than the lone wolf and cub adventures of the child.The previous episode hinted toward a much bigger storyline involving Bo Katan and the other clans of Mandaore reclaiming their homeworld. It appears The Child is the key to Dr. Pershing’s research based on the high M count of his blood, which we can assume to mean midichlorions.


The disfigured bodies floating in the tanks seem to resemble Snoke. I might be imagining things, but one appeared to have features resembling the Emperor. The Rise of Skywalker didn’t really delve too deeply into the means by which Sidious returned, but we know it has something to do with cloning. The Emperor says he ‘made’ Snoke. Based on Dr. Pershing’s recording, it sounds as if there is immense difficulty in cloning a Force sensitive beings.



Dr. Pershing describes a volunteer, which I assume to mean a person willing to receive the host’s DNA. Could this mean Moff Gideon is attempting to use this research to make himself Force sensitive? This was an idea which was considered for Admiral Hux in Colin Trevorrow’s script for Episode IX titled Duel of the Fates, in which Hux possessed Mace Windu’s lightsaber and frequently attempted to use the Force while in private.This makes me wonder if Snoke was perhaps a distinct individual at one point, disfigured by the research to recreate the Emperor. Perhaps ‘the volunteer’?


The focus has remained primarily on Manda for most of the show’s run, but the tail end of this episode cut to scenes focused on Cara Dune and Moff Gideon. I feel like as the scope of these stories expand, there will be room for more point of view characters.


The Sequel Trilogy really struggled with building a cohesive narrative. I feel like The Mandalorian could be used to fill in many of the gaps and hopefully strengthen the narrative ties between the original six films and the new trilogy.


The New Republic at the end of the episode meets with Cara Dune and tries to recruit her for their army. He says that the people in the core don’t believe something big is happening in the outer rim, but that these imperial uprisings are not isolated incidents.

This episode already introduces the idea that the Child is a critical component in the research to resurrect Palpatine. Perhaps we’ll see more of the underpinnings for the rise of the First Order established as the show progresses.


Given Ahsoka’s introduction, I wonder if we’ll see Grand Admiral Thrawn play any role in this story? Timothy Zahn’s Heir to the Empire trilogy of Novels dealt with really similar subject matter in the same timeframe, so they could be used as inspiration.


I also just found out that Lars Mikkelson is the voice for Thrawn in Star Wars: Rebels – and he could do a great job portraying the character in live action. With Katee Sackhoff reprising her role as Bo Katan in live action, it would make a lot of sense for other voice actors to follow suit.


It seems unlikely, but as the scope of the story expands, perhaps we could even see some of the original trilogy heroes? If we don’t see them in action, perhaps we will at least learn about what they’re doing at this point in time. I think we at least need to see R2 and 3PO appear at some point in the future. I’m really interested to find out if Ahsoka Tano is aware of Luke Skywalker. Does she know about Vader’s redemption? The death of the Emperor? Does she know Luke and Leia are Anakin’s children?

 

Gideon has only been in 3 episodes so far. For a total of like 10 minutes. Patience. His material is incoming.

 

This show is definitely a slow burner

 

I've been thinking along a lot of the same lines! What's happening with Ezra/Thrawn and the search by Ahsoka and Sabine is the biggest dangling plot thread in all of SW, as far as I'm concerned. I also think they're going to do something with Thrawn similar to the original Thrawn trilogy; they've alluded to so much of the old EU, I just don't see them skipping what is essentially the most loved and well-known aspect of it, especially as they've already introduced the character and got him 'out of the way' for the OT era, leaving him available for such.

The only thing against this is that no one has mentioned him in any of the ancillary media, at least not in the terms of almost retaking the galaxy or being a high-level threat to the New Republic. I feel like that would have been important enough to have gotten mention before, and would be hard to retcon. But, it could easily be done in the UR, by replacing certain factions and what-not. To be fair, the old EU had a Thrawn clone growing out there, with a very First Order-like group (Empire of the Hand) building itself and biding it's time out there. There are quite a few pieces of connective tissue that could be sewn together to make this happen.

I'm guessing we'll have a little bit more of these puzzle pieces Friday. In fact, I'll definitely be disappointed if we get nothing about Ezra, Thrawn, or Sabine in this episode. Like, possibly ruin how-amazing-getting-Ahsoka-will-be level disappointed. But, I simultaneously won't be surprised if they didn't.

 

You should read the original (Legends) Dark Empire if you haven't already done so.

It's a galaxy very similar to what you suggest and has a mysterious Sith planet called Byss from which the Emperor rebuilds. It has it's not-so-good bits but I thoroughly enjoyed it.

 

The show's style is intentionally minimalistic, so I don't think we should measure it as we do other shows, with longer running times. We'll learn more about Gideon, hopefully, when it's appropriate. Right now he serves the purpose of being a credible threat, which is all he needs to be at the moment.

 

That is the point I'm exactly making after 8 hours of Storytelling he should have more of a presence, it's a missed Opportunity by the writers. plus they're giving that great actor nothing to do he has no teeth at all yet. I hope everybody's right and they about to kick him into some kind of gear cuz right now he's stuck in neutral.

 

i loved it when Coruscant got a mention

 

That just means they don't have alot for Gidion to do. especially if they want to do episodic adventures too like they clearly do. as stated before, its an old western. alot of older shows are about the hero travelling from place to place and meeting new people, before moving on.