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The Mandalorian The Mandalorian 2.08 - Chapter 16 (Season Finale!!) - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Current and Future Shows' started by Todd the Jedi , Dec 17, 2020.

?

Grade the episode

Poll closed Jan 1, 2021.
  1. 10

    65.2%
  2. 9

    18.9%
  3. 8

    9.0%
  4. 7

    2.6%
  5. 6

    2.1%
  6. 5

    0.9%
  7. 4

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. 3

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. 2

    1.3%
  10. 1

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. RetropME

    RetropME Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 11, 2017
    They definitely did some more work on Luke... his mouth moves more now and his expressions are more natural.

    Either that or I am just getting used to the effect...
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
  2. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Ok, I watched it again and tried to compare with images from the Internet.

    IF there is any difference, maybe it could be the light on his skin that is less reflective now.

    I have a reference photo, and comparing with what I see on my TV is difficult because we never know the settings used to capture the image, versus my TV settings.
     
  3. DarthKreVass

    DarthKreVass Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Well, he also promised to help Bo Katan help retake Mandalore in that final episode. So I think from all the talk and what was said in the last episode, I think that's their next direction for Mando. He's always been a man of his word, and he did say he would help Bo Katan.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
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  4. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett PT Interview Host/Teh Mole Host -RYL Awards Winner star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    I think my problem with Luke’s face is how it just isn’t really expressive
     
  5. DarthFixxxer

    DarthFixxxer Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 20, 2018
    He is somber. He doesn't need to be expressive.
    It is 5 years after ROTJ, where we already saw him somber for the most part in the movie.
    Calm, concentrated, grown. It is safe to assume that another 5 years of introspection and training and maturity have led to that.
    He is one with the Force and the Force is with him as he is cutting through the droids, and then he is still composed.
    This is literally one of my most favorite parts about "The Rescue". It shows Luke exactly how he should be in my opinion.
     
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  6. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett PT Interview Host/Teh Mole Host -RYL Awards Winner star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    I don’t know would have liked something out of it. Other than blank stare.
     
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  7. mtt02263

    mtt02263 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2020
    I like the depiction and it seems realistic for the situation. Luke doesn't know anyone there, so he comes in calmly and stays his distance. He is honest with Din about needing to train Grogu in order to keep him safe, but gives Din a grin and some more animation when R2 comes in and has a moment with Grogu. It works for me, I don't think we needed a ton of exposition and it helped keep the scene focused on the relationship between Din and Grogu.
     
  8. MandoFan

    MandoFan Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Dec 24, 2019
    Some good points here... Those episodes at the end of the Clone Wars were excellent, agreed. I didn't mean to imply that there's no place for a dark episode or even a few dark episodes if well placed like those episodes were.

    The end of the Clone Wars, Revenge of the Sith, and Rogue One were all darker stories, but we also knew they were leading up to the OT. They were parts of a bridge leading to hope.

    As far as Din is concerned, we've seen his entire outlook on life change from being completely focused on his experiences as a child over to what it feels like to be a parent figure. At first he brought the child to the client to get his payment just like any other bounty work he'd done before. But then he began to rethink that position and it was a huge turning point in his life.

    Thinking about the first three chapters of season one, we saw Din's priorities shift dramatically. Over the course of the two seasons, his concerns for others continued to widen beyond just himself and Grogu was the catalyst for those changes. From there, he helped the villagers defeat the AT-ST, took parenting advice from the mechanic, spared the lives of his fellow bounty hunters, accepted the changes made to IG-11, and the list goes on in season two. Din is a guy who has been through the wringer but he's become a better person for it so that he was willing to let Grogu go with someone who can teach him how to control and take care of himself. Additionally, he showed a willingness to consider helping the rest of his fellow Mandalorians to reunite. I can't wait to see how he continues to grow in season three.
     
  9. MandoFan

    MandoFan Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Dec 24, 2019
    I was thinking about this and I kept going back and forth about it. But then I remembered feeling like that back when ROTJ came out. Like Mark was trying to portray Luke as being totally calm and peaceful, almost to a fault. So my wife and I re-watched ROTJ today and I have to say Luke in the Mandalorian pretty much matches Luke in ROTJ.
     
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  10. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    IMO I can definantly see a clear difference between the CGI de-aging and the deepfake (is this something a fan did, or something they actually put in the episode?) as the latter looks more like Hammil then the latter (though IMO the former looks a bit odd when he talks, but mouth movement is a pretty big problem with deepfakes in general).

    Barring that they could just put it in a book or comic.

    No matter what I'm sure it will come up eventually, as Filoni seems loath to waste good ideas.

    Now that you mention that, that's probobly why she chose to set up literally on top of him on Tython.

    Him not having a connection to Mandalore (which is understandable becuase as far as we know he's never been their) does'nt prevent him from devoloping one later, and I doubt Grogu's going to be gone from the show for good.

    Well IMO that's kinda the point, as Din himself is still trying to figure out who he is; that seems to be the point of his character - it's like an old western were the cowboy is just wandering around the west doing nothing special until he finds something greater then himself that begins to change him - in a lot of those films it's a person who needs protecting or a town that needs saving.

    There's a bit of what looks like a playful smirk during the part where he half looks up a Din.

    Or maybe that's just me imagining things, IDK.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
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  11. Darth Chuck Norris

    Darth Chuck Norris Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2014
    I remember watching something a while back about Guy Henry as the base for CGI Tarkin. They were saying that Henry had to get every little facial detail down. For example, when Peter Cushing speaks, he's kind of tight lipped. He doesn't open his mouth with any exaggerated motions. Henry had to learn to emulate that, otherwise it threw off the mapping when they laid the CGI face over Henry's. I wonder if that is where some of the "issues" with the Luke CGI come from? If the person who was the stand in couldn't properly articulate his facial expressions to match that of Hamill, it could have caused some of the off putting visuals. It looked like they were using the Luke face from Jabba's palace, as opposed to the more expressive Luke from the throne room. That could be part of it too in that they didn't pick the most expressive Luke face to use.

    If I can find the video, I'll post it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
  12. MandoFan

    MandoFan Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Dec 24, 2019
    DCN, Mark Hamill himself was on set to do those scenes. After reviewing ROTJ today with my wife, we both agreed that he played Luke the same way for The Mandalorian.

    Just an observation.
     
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  13. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett PT Interview Host/Teh Mole Host -RYL Awards Winner star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    No he wasn’t. He was on set but he wasn’t playing those scenes
     
  14. MandoFan

    MandoFan Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Dec 24, 2019
    JKF, he didn't do the action scenes, but Jon Favreau clearly stated that Mark filmed the dialog scenes and they digitally de-aged him. That interview is everywhere.
     
  15. DarthFixxxer

    DarthFixxxer Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 20, 2018
    So, the debate right now about how he appears in the episode on Disney+, is whether they improved the CGI and refreshed the episode online.
    There is no Deepfake involved anywhere, the various videos on YouTube are fan made and show how it *could* have been if they had used that technology.

    In order to compare, we would have to have the Disney+ version of "The Rescue" from 10 days ago screen to screen with the Disney+ version of "The Rescue" which is online right now. This is impossible to do, because the mind plays tricks and we could all be seeing an improved version right now because we have gotten used to that scene. However, if my memory serves me well, I do think that Mark Hamill's facial features and skin were more glossy a few days ago on Disney+.

    An interesting note is also that they seem to be able to modify stuff such as The Jeans Guy (if I am not mistaken he has been removed from that episode since weeks ago?) which would make it very possible to improve the CGI on Mark Hamill if it buzzed on the internet and became a trend. Why not after all? Isn't it better to have Mark Hamill look.... better?

    PS. They DID add the titles for the episodes on Disney+ for the 2nd season, until a few days ago it was still saying "Chapter 1, Chapter 2, etc" while for the 1st season all the titles were up on the menu,
     
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  16. AndrewPascoe

    AndrewPascoe Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2014
    I’m leaning towards the idea that it hasn’t been changed mostly because I’m just not seeing any noticeable improvement in addition to being seemingly unnecessary.

    The version we got 10 days ago was fine. Was it perfect? No. Will it ever be perfect? No. Is it worth spending hours and hours reworking for something that we can’t even definitively see an improvement? No.

    Jeans guy, in my opinion, is a different can of worms and an easier fix. That’s fixing an error and just removing an element altogether. Luke on the other hand is tinkering and fine tuning an effect.

    I’d love to hear from someone at LFL/ILM to confirm/debunk this thing and the reasoning for or against it.
     
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  17. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Not quite sure I understand. Why would it not be worth a few hours or days or even weeks of ILM’s time to improve one of the most talked about scenes in Disney Star Wars?
     
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  18. AndrewPascoe

    AndrewPascoe Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2014
    Because there wasn’t anything to fix per se. The scene was already good. To me it wouldn’t seem like the effort was worth it given so many people were happy with how it was. It wasn’t like Sonic situation where a large portion of the fan base said it looked bad. If changes were made there barely noticeable.

    Also the fact they’re in the middle of shoot TBOP and Cassian, with Mando in preproduction it just seems like there would be more important things to work towards.

    I’ve also not seen it reported/discussed anywhere outside of this forum which coupled with the above makes me think nothing has actually been updated.
     
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  19. Django Fett

    Django Fett Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2012
    May be he looked to "right", they never moved him on timewise, keeping him exactly as he looked in ROTJ. This
    would've been an interesting look. Mark Hamill in Slipstream 5 years after making ROTJ.
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Vinylshadow

    Vinylshadow Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2017
    Having Luke look slightly different than RotJ probably would've been a good thing and helped hide the CGI

    He also needs to blink and move his eyes more, like having him glance at everyone else in the room and not be hyper-focused on Din and Grogu
     
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  21. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Thanks, that clears things up; that's what I had originally assumed, but the way parts of the conversation read on here it seemed like some were saying it was Disney who had done this.

    Who the heck is "the Jeans Guy"?

    I mean, I assume he's a guy who wears jeans, but beyond that clearly I missed something.

    Why not indeed?

    I'm never had issues with editing a filmed work after the fact for the sake of continiuty with later works (it's akin to re-printing a book with edits for similer reasons, IMO), so long as it feels natural and make sense; for instance ghost Anakin - which to be honest I used to hate just becuase I hated Anakin but I've long since come around to - and Boba's voice in the OT being dubbed over with Morrisons.

    Eh, he's only like twenty-eight at this point (as opposed to twenty-three in ROTJ); I'm twenty-nine and I don't really look all that different from when I was twenty-three, save for having shoulder length Aragorn hair (which only came in post-Covid) as opposed to a Chris Pine-in-ST Beyond haircut and a short beard (that I only grew this month becuase I could'nt be bothered to shave and started getting complimented for it). And I don't take care of myself like Luke probobly does or have acess to the Force and space-age medical technology.

    That's more Luke as I'd imagine him sometime after he starts training Ben but before the TLJ flashbacks, when he's in his late 30s/early 40s; older but still fairly fresh-faced and, while a bit less optimistic and more weathered/world-wary, not quite yet the cynical, bitter man he becomes after Ben's fall.

    I mean he's clearly bundled up to go on a Jedi archological dig to Rhen Var with an increasingly troubled teenaged Ben Solo (who I can only presume looks like Finn Wolfhard)
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Just for fun here's Senator Leia and lame stay-at-home dad Han Solo (whose going through a phase where he rocked a beard and played the kloo horn in a lame Max Rebo cover band that he's way to proud of and won't shut up about*) from around the same time:p

    *and you wonder why Kylo hated him!
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2020
  22. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    You know, JEANS GUY.
     
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  23. Vinylshadow

    Vinylshadow Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2017
    His power was too great so they had to erase him from existence
     
  24. Django Fett

    Django Fett Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2012
    [​IMG]
    I actually imagined Leia looking like this during her Jedi training, give her a little Padawan pony tale and it's so perfect to me. I could imagine her looking like this when she's talking to Anakin...
    [​IMG]
    There could be some really funny conversations.
     
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  25. DarthFixxxer

    DarthFixxxer Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 20, 2018
    [​IMG]

    Luke: How many weapons do you need?
    Din Djarin: Yes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2021
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