A/V The Mandalorian (Jon Favreau SW Live Action show) - Now featuring former Man in DeLorean

Picard s3.10 doesn't work for someone?

 

I enjoyed the finale but there was a lot of endings, more even than Lord of the Rings

 

Just a quick word in defense of the "good vibes only crowd" - approaching the franchise from an uncritical perspective, centered on just having fun and sharing your enthusiasm with like-minded fans, is an entirely valid and acceptable way to consume Star Wars. No amount of harsh critiques or angry criticisms make you a better fan than someone who connects with the material on a more emotional level because it's their escape, or because it takes them back to their childhood, or simply because they've remembered that this stuff is supposed to be fun. I loved BOBF and Obi-Wan and Mando Season 3 (and - dare I say it? - the ST) not because these were glorious pieces of artistic excellence worthy of enshrining in the Film and Television Hall of Fame, but because they have lightsabers, and Mandalorians, and people shooting at each other and tons and tons of all the cool stuff I always wanted to see as a kid. It's all about the nostalgia and the fun and for some of us that's all it needs to be, and that's okay.

 

You've missed the point, which was pretty clearly elucidated over the last couple of pages. Nothing wrong with liking things if you're not being a **** about it

 

Yeah I mean I think increasingly the divide isn't so much between positive people and negative people as between people who actually appreciate and enjoy "criticism" in the more general sense of "art criticism" analysis positive or negative or just conceptual and want to engage in it, and those who are really in it for the feels and vibes. The hyper-positive "everything is awesome" and hyper-negative "everything is terrible" things tend to be pretty similar on that plane.

And I mean, to be clear, I don't have a problem with those modes in themselves; both can be enjoyable and even very worthwhile if they don't take themselves too seriously. It does feel like a person is missing out on some basic aspect of art if they can't enjoy geeking out over something they like with other people or watching something they dislike get torn to shreds every once in a while. I certainly do. When those cultures take themselves hyper-seriously and try to dominating everything and push everyone else out, though, it definitely can get toxic very quickly.

In general I'm actually very heavily weighted towards the positive when it comes to the art I consume; if I really don't enjoy something, or even if I feel like I'm not going to enjoy it, I just don't consume it. I don't do hate-watching or hate-reading. On that level, I would always rather hear from someone who liked a work of art why they liked it than hear from someone who hated it.

That being said, I am also someone who really enjoys art criticism in general, reading it and engaging in it myself. Some of my favorite authors are literary or film critics who have interesting things to say about art. And I think the point that often gets lost is that true art criticism really isn't about the question "is this wonderful or terrible"; it's about understanding what art is and how it works and how it connects with ideas and people's lives and the real world. And yes, that does to some degree necessarily involve having an idea of the good or goal for art in general and for particular works and genres of art; and that in turn necessarily involves pointing out where specific works of art achieve those goals or don't or could achieve them better. Some of the best art critics are people with strong perspectives who have strong reactions to art and get happy or angry about it and love it or hate it; but what they do is still entirely different than just getting off on mocking something or turning it into a conspiracy against America or whatever for clicks. I mean, for one thing, from the perspective of art criticism, the very idea of someone being a uniformly positive or negative consumer of art is just bizarre.

As I said, I have no issue with people who don't like art criticism or don't want to engage in it themselves but just enjoy the things they enjoy (or dislike the things they dislike). Unfortunately it does feel like art criticism, even very ordinary "lay" art criticism, really is getting pushed out from both sides, by the hyper-polarization of positivity and negativity culture, by political hyper-polarization in general, by the death of newspapers and print culture and the way the mediums of youtube and tiktok and social media work. And that does seem like a big shame to me.

 

I picked that up just fine, thank you. I was responding more to the subtext than the text.

 

a pitch meeting for the season 3, complete with side quest


Don't let the eyes fool you it is a decent show.

 

Haha these are great

Missed an opportunity to have it be the studio guy forcing the pitcher to put Grogu back in the show though

 

Like I said I post those to generate a discussion or if I think they have a point. That doesn't mean I agree or endorse there personal views. Some of which can be pretty nasty or in other cases quite ridiculous.

Regardless most of those people hate The Last Jedi but don't mind The Force Awakens. I actually think the ST's problems began with TFA and remember watching it in the Cinema feeling very disappointed that all they'd done was redo ANH. Also(waving away any plot holes/inconsistencies with A Good Question for another time was annoying) having Kylo be bested by Rey was going to be very limiting for the Trilogy going forward.

 

TLJ is where things really went off the rails with all kinds of bad stuff happening.

Watched the trailers and got really excited because you expected a good time? Nope, you should be a passive, blank slate. Didn't like it for X reason? You're racist / sexist / anti-diversity. Expecting the 8th episode of a series to align well to both its predecessor and the others? You're psychologically unhinged and incapable of properly watching and understanding the film. If you understood it, instead of being cinematically illiterate, you'd like it.

There was never any need for any of the toxicity but it's all still burning. Those who liked it battling those who didn't; each side casting themselves as the plucky underdogs.

TlJ is the Mario film in reverse, critics loved it, the general audience? More mixed. It still made a billion.

I can find things to like in it but it doesn't make it easy, unlike Mando.

 

Actually, the general audience also largely liked TLJ (A CinemaScore, same as Super Mario, interestingly enough). The mixed reactions emerged mostly from the online, hardcore fandom. I know I keep harping on that point, but it is an important distinction to make.

But yeah, for whatever reason TLJ was definitely an inflection point in terms of toxicity in the fandom, no matter where you personally see it. And it was and continues to be absolutely not necessary.

 

Don't open the box man, don't open the box.... ^&$# he opened the box.

 

Aren’t you kind of just helping to fan the perpetual fire here, Ben?

 

Doubt it because we're all mostly civilised here.

 

That's the problem with JJ's Mystery Box there is normally nothing in it.

Yes TLJ made a lot of money but was it because of the quality of that movie or simply because of the Starwars name that always helps any movie (except Solo)

People say TLJ was trying new stuff but redoing the Throne Room scene of RTJ or Hoth with Gorilla Walkers isn't new. Also that Mary Poppins in Space moment with Leia. That was just ridiculous

 

@Jedi Ben

I suppose, but what’s the point in going over the backlash to TLJ again? Let’s be real; the reason the fandom can’t move past TLJ is because the fandom won’t allow itself to move past it. Some people simply refuse to live with it, or tolerate it, and we’re not going to move on until that happens. It’s a wound which will not heal.

I suppose I find the whole thing painful and I’m not sure why we need to go over it again and again and again and again.

 

It's made me curious, how many people rewatch the ST ?
For example I recently rewatched R1 and of course do RotS and the OT all the time but Iv not rewatched TLJ or RoS (I rewatched TFA 1 before I saw TLJ to catch up) after seeing them in the Cinema

 

Especially in a thread that's supposed to be about the Mandalorian.

 

When is S4 due to come out ?

 

Who's we? Some guy named Doomcock in the depths of YouTube and 4chan? I don't think either of us can do anything about those kind of people and we have no obligation to.

I started posting here in 1999 and three months in Vector Prime dropped a moon on Chewie, cue death threats sent to Salvatore. There's a messed -up dynamic where the negative outlives the positive, it doesn't matter that Lit, as a forum, at a time when emotions were running high, pro and anti fans, all agreed that was beyond the pale, all that persists is the death threat.

Net conversations like this, from time to time, go off on short-term tangents. The tangent in this casr was YouTube toxicity. That in turns does get us close to the event horizon of TLJ, as yes, I do think it boosted it in ways unintended. But we can go close without going over it. And then veer away.

And that is happening right now. So all's good.

Also, I am entirely serious with Lit being the most stable place if you're going to talk TLJ. We shouldn't be treating it as MacBeth. I suppose if we did it would The Johnson Film? TJF would replace TLJ.

As to season 4, the timing is more important to me now that movie finale is in the mix. As it's probably unlikely things would go Mando s4, Thrawn film, Mando s5. There's nothing stopping it but Rebels feeding into RO worked well so I could see them going with it again.

 

Has there been official word that there is a season 4 in the offing? I can't remember if that was ever made official. It seems like a given, and I certainly wouldn't complain, but at the same time that season 3 finale put a pretty solid cap on all the main storylines. Obviously there are plenty of subplots hanging around that could be picked up on, but "The Return" felt at least as much like a series finale as it did a season finale.

 

S3 did end well

There's Twitter claims that Favreau has written S4 but that's far from official confirmation.

I'd like a s4 but I can easily go with it ending as it has if not. Equally, map out Mando's role in the film and do new books / comics in the interim.