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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

A/V The Mandalorian (Jon Favreau SW Live Action show) - Now featuring former Man in DeLorean

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AdmiralNick22 , Nov 9, 2017.

  1. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    I think a wounded, injured but not as broken Luke might have made a positive difference, that it's a matter of degree.

    Also, just about any other explanation of what he was on the island for would have likely gone down better than suicide. TLJ overdid it.
     
  2. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
    Pretty much every patented JJ Abrams "mystery box" set up in TFA ended up getting resolved extremely poorly. It's one of JJ's big failings. Remember Lost? I still haven't heard a good explanation of why the Others kidnapped children.
     
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  3. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    I think the extremes to which Luke went in TLJ necessitates a more fantastical explanation: he's containing Palpatine and Palpatine is kriffing with his mind.

    That said, the broken hero in hiding, willing to sit out his remaining days on that island and letting the Jedi Order die with him makes sense in light of what has gone down prior.

    TROS actually complicates the situation a lot, and The Rise of Kylo Ren complicates it further. Sidious manipulating Ben at that early stage almost necessitates that he was also messing with Luke and continuing to mess with Luke in his exile.

    IG: @jedisufism
     
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  4. JediBatman

    JediBatman Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 3, 2015
    In fairness I heard that despite having his name on it Abrams wasn't all that involved with Lost.
     
  5. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Talking of Lost - Was the polar bear ever explained?

    As to TFA to TLJ, I think it's overlooked just how much successful, serialised long-form stories there had been spun for TV in recent years. To the extent TV was providing competition to cinema. In that environment, it would have been unthinkable for a trilogy to not know, in a general way, how piece B pays things piece A sets in motion. Never mind an OT sequel set that would get so much more attention.

    Then it became very clear post-TLJ that yes, they really were flying blind. With RoS being the final proof of it.

    I think a trilogy made with RoS in mind would look rather different, but would also have to depart more from the oT conventions the ST films couldn't stop paying homage to..
     
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  6. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Also worth considering that the ST would have seemed much more cohesive as far as an overarching story goes, had they stuck to the general DOTF cript ideas. While not without its own flaws, it makes the throughline of TFA-TLJ-Galaxy's Edge-DOTF much clearer (as does supplementary stuff like where Resistance was seemingly headed, with the artifact hunters and such).

    It's less about not having a plan and more about not sticking to the plan for the finale when the finale was needed to make the planning prior to it more obvious; even if said planning wasn't formulated until after TFA was in development.

    Yeah, IIRC they had a small zoo of some kind or at least a display/study environment for them to be in and eventually were freed when things went south.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2020
  7. Vialco

    Vialco Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2007
    In a word:

    Yes

    I don’t know about everyone else, but I watch Star Wars as an escape from reality. I got into Star Wars because it was about heroism and inspiration.

    A story about a young farmboy who goes on to destroy a deadly battle station. Who saves a princess and the Galaxy based on his unwavering belief in what is right and good.

    The farmboy goes on to become a Jedi Knight and learns that his father is the most evil man in the Galaxy. And despite all this, the farmboy doesn’t lose his optimism and courage. He still retains that unshakeable belief in what is good and right.

    Luke Skywalker is pure and good and wholesome and an shining example of what is good and right. He believes in the goodness of everyone. So much so that he manages to redeem the Dark Lord of the Sith himself.

    That was the original story of Star Wars.

    A tale of heroism and courage and redemption.

    The Last Jedi destroys Luke’s character by introducing a horrible flaw and making him into the kind of man who’d consider striking down his defenseless nephew in cold blood while he slept.

    That’s just not in the character or spirit of the Luke Skywalker we all knew and loved. It’s the story of a fallen, tragic hero. One whose flawed and fails completely and is crushed by his failure.

    Mark Hamill himself has commented that Luke would not have given up so completely after losing Ben and his other students.

    I guess what I’m trying to say is that the Luke we saw in the Sequel Trilogy isn’t the Luke Skywalker I spent years reading about and admiring as a hero.

    That’s not my Luke Skywalker.
     
  8. fett 4

    fett 4 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2000
    The Critical Drinker has reviewed The Mandalorian Season 2. Caution strong language in the video
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2020
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  9. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    He's a waste of space.
     
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  10. fett 4

    fett 4 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2000
    You've clearly not seen the video
     
  11. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    I have seens his previous ones and that's enogh for me plus i have seen his tweet of the episode, tells me enough about him.
     
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  12. fett 4

    fett 4 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2000
    I don't follow him on twitter so I wouldn't know
     
  13. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    In A New Hope, Luke was depicted as this shining paragon of virtue, by ESB and ROTJ we see that Luke is not flawless and that he gets a lot closer to the edge of darkness than we thought possible.

    Yes, he made the right decision after letting his rage loose and battering Vader to the ground and cutting off his hand. Seeing the machine parts in Vader's severed wrist stopped him enough see himself in Vader. This the Luke that immediately lopped off Cave Vision Vader's head.

    That Luke could, as horrific as it truly is, out of instinct ignite his lightsaber after sensing the darkness in Ben, likely sensing the malevolent presence of the Emperor himself isn't out of character. Luke, crucially, didn't consider striking Ben down in his sleep. It was a reflex, much like his past reflexive turns toward violent solutions, and one that cost him dearly. It wasn't, unlike past instances, actually a conscious decision to snap is lightsaber off his belt.

    Besides, I seem to recall the very Luke we all read about for decades falling, or nearly so, to the dark side in a misguided attempt to defeat Palpatine's Dark Empire from within and having to keep himself aloof from the battle against Darth Caedus because he rightly feared his anger getting the better of him.

    Even Legends Luke Skywalker is a flawed man. A great man, but he has his faults.

    IG: @jedisufism
     
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  14. Darth_Accipiter

    Darth_Accipiter Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2015
    It would have been better if Luke tried to redeem his nephew first and failed, unlike with his father. Knowing the meta nature of the force he cut himself off from it to establish a void in the light side that the force would need to fill with a new champion who could accomplish what he could not. Darkness rises, and the light to meet it. At Ach-To he waited in exile, keeping the history and theology of the Jedi safe while waiting for the new champion to one day appear. Keeping the hope alive, which is what the message of TLJ was in the end. If it were presented this way, rather than Luke just giving up after his mistake and letting the galaxy go to **** maybe the film would have been better received.
     
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  15. PimpBacca

    PimpBacca Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 2015
    Soo there dose seem to be a bit of confusion on the mando/BOBF show on Twitter.

    really not sure if there is still here but it is pretty simple.

    via leaks BOBF has been filming for a few months now and is quite possibly almost done.

    they are also in preproduction on mando season 3. As soon as they are done on BOBF they will begin full swing on mando season 3. Supposedly both are still set for a December 2021 release.

    Theory part

    the Fett show will start at the beginning of December with maybe one episode per week (potential 4 episodes) on the final week of December 2021 we will get the last episode of Boba and the first episode of mando season 3.

    thus meaning yes although the majority of mando season 3 will show in 2022 it will still technically start in 2021.

    or my theory is completely wrong and they will have two Star Wars shows going at the same time.
     
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  16. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Didn't we have a reference at some point earlier to Mando Season 3 being a xmas release? Having BOBF be early Dec leading to MAND S3 on xmas would track. Christmas Eve is on a Friday next year, to boot.
     
  17. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Depends on what KK's statement was at the investor thing

    IG: @jedisufism
     
  18. EmperorHorus

    EmperorHorus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2016
    Critical drinker can be entertaining and does bring up a lot of good points, even if he is utterly biased and bases a lot of what he likes on politics (but then a lot of people do just that, on both sides).
    I believe it was confirmed (possibly by Favreau himself) recently that Mando S 3 would be released shortly after BOBF, probably very early 2022, even though they originally did dub it a xmas release.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2020
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  19. vstarvan

    vstarvan Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2013
    Yes, TESB and ROTJ have scenes showing the growing darkness in Luke. Their purpose is to build tension to the final conflict with the emperor. "Strike me down, and your journey to the dark side will be complete". Will he give in to the darkness, or persevere? As he lashes out at Vader with the emperor cackling in the background, the audience fears he's gone down the wrong path. He's winning the duel but losing the battle with his soul. It's not until he sees himself in Vader that he realizes what's actually happening. At the end of the day, putting his faith in the good of the galaxy is what redeems Vader and defeats the emperor. That's the lesson Luke learns, his character arc. He walks away from that fight a better man. It shouldn't still be a problem for him post-ROTJ. It's not compelling for a story to hit the reset button and make a character re-learn the same lesson they already spent a trilogy overcoming.

    The thing is, broken Luke could work without regressing the character. His failing could've been a challenge to his new worldview. Last we saw Luke, he learned that putting his faith in the goodness of people is the right way to go. It's been his guiding principle for decades without fail. He takes in a troubled Ben and keeps him around despite the warning signs, believing in his goodness and that he can be saved. Ben slaughters the students and burns the temple, and it all happened because Luke thought he could save him. Everything he's built up for years is in ashes, and the unbreaking worldview that led him through life is utterly shattered. Luke feels directly responsible and blames himself for it all. He wasn't good enough.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2020
  20. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    It's not regression. Lessons learned in life dont always take permanently, and rarely ever are character flaws completely discarded.

    I dont think "when Luke was 23 he withheld his blade and thus he will never get angry or fearful again" is realistic. That's not at all how life works.

    IG: @jedisufism
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2020
  21. vstarvan

    vstarvan Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2013
    There's a big difference between never getting angry or fearful again, and pulling a weapon on your nephew. Luke didn't magically stop feeling those things on the Death star, he became mindful of his emotions and acted in spite of them. That's the whole point of the story.

    Choosing to make a character relearn the same lesson instead of building off what's been previously established is, by definition, regression.
     
  22. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
  23. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    Hard to stick with a plan when the most important person to said plan dies.

    If anything the opposite happened and they DID stick to said plan because said plan revolved around Carrie Fisher needing to be the center of the film and they had really limited options outside of pushing the movie back a few years and really starting the drawing board again from scratch.

    I don't think a lot of us wanna admit but Carrie Fisher dying really threw things off big time.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2020
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  24. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2005
    I'd agree there are issues with the specifics and presentation that didn't help matters and I'm definitely speaking pretty broadly with, "Anyone who was expecting to come into TLJ and be confronted with a well adjusted and heroic Luke off the back of TFA was setting themselves up for disappointment."

    You're of course right to suggest that Luke didn't have to be so defeatist, so pathetic, so ruined but I'm not in the camp that thinks the portrayal "makes no sense", either, as much as I dislike it. Even at an uncharitable mininum, it's a defensible outgrowth of the fact the Empire is back, his students are dead or evil, and his life's work has been destroyed.

    I'd welcome revelations along the lines Dawud suggests to soften some of the blows, here, but also feel that the best we could ever hope for after the situation Episode VII presented was damage control.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2020
  25. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Thinking again about the hallway scene - as scary as the dark troopers were, they were probably less effective against Luke than the old CIS droids would have been. Frankly, even the same credits worth of B1 comic relief droids might have worked better, because when you have that many of them a lucky shot is more likely.

    Like, at the end of the day the Dark Troopers' biggest strength is their toughness - they are frankly quite slow and not very agile, and their armament seems to be a standard blaster rifle like Luke is quite used to dealing with. But since that toughness wasn't lighsaber proof it counted for nothing, so all that is left is a slower B1.
    And jokes about hallway scenes inside, it does seem like cramped quarters like that are the worst place to fight a jedi in - after all, best way for a group to overwhelm a jedi is to keep their distance and attack from as many angles as possible - can't do either in a narrow, confined tunnel.

    Also, I like that the one getting flamethrowered almost seemed to give Din an exasperated "really?" expression despite not actually having a face or anything.
     
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