A/V The Mandalorian (Jon Favreau SW Live Action show) - Now featuring former Man in DeLorean

This is not a misogynistic remark in the slightest. It's simply commentary on, what I consider to be, a futile attempt by Lucasfilm to pander to a demographic that has shown resistance to their marketing efforts. **RELAX EVERYONE I THINK WOMEN CAN DO ANYTHING MEN CAN** Is anybody really willing to argue, however, that their attempts to double their market(i.e. drawing in that 50% of the population which has been uninterested historically) aren't blatant? I mean come on it's just observation for crying out loud. If what I posted constitutes an attack then I'd say you have codified a (false) equivalence between discourse/dissenting opinion and "attacks". If, after reviewing my post you still consider it to be harmful in any way do us both a favor and delete my profile.

How to speak marshmellow: "I disagree with you" = "I am a sexist bigot"

 

What's more problematic are your citations for demographics that... really don't reflect the actual demographics we know to exist. You seem to be basing your ideas on a false pretence. Women like, and always have liked, Star Wars.

 

There’s plenty of female SW fans, you obtuse dweeb. Maybe you don’t know any in person because geek fan culture is male dominated and usually not a comfortable or welcoming place for women?


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Okay, I'm going to stipulate that everything you've said is true.

Now.

Why so bitter?

 

No female character, apart from Rey in TFA, fall into this stereotype.

 

Also people do realize that they're still owned by Disney right? Disney, who has a big chunk of it's fanbase that's made up of. *gasp* women and young girls.

Also one of the most successful genre films of this year just so happened to have starred a female lead. Men weren't "recoiling in horror" from going to see that film (I saw it three times myself).

EDIT: Not even Rey fits that stereotype either.

 

Well, I don't remember her saying as much, but she is a Mary Sue character by any definition of the word. She even takes the place of established characters with other people that just meet her (Leia hugging her instead of Chewie at the end, for instance). It's terrible writing and does not bode well unless Rian Johnson pulls a 180 on the character. Leia didn't need to be as strong or stoic or be instantly loved by people encountering her. If SW could do better female characters 40 years ago, you as a creator and writer, are doing something wrong.

 

Let's not have this super tired argument right now.

 

So is Yoda a Mary Sue of Obi-Wan? Is Qui-Gon? Is Padmé of Leia? It's a generational series, of course characters are going to fill the archetypes of the previous generation. J.J. himself has said he dropped the ball with the hug thing, but it's still reasonable that Leia and Rey would have a connection in that moment. Plus the story's about her just as it was Luke -- and it's not much different from Leia comforting him over Ben's death, when really he should have been comforting her for the death of her entire planet.

Star Wars is a classic example of storytelling that existed above a lot of its contemporaries even 40 years ago, and codified a lot of the tropes it used. Writing isn't an evolution dependant on the passage of time. Star Wars was exemplary, and successful in part because of the context it was released in, so it's not unfair to say later films just aren't able to match what it achieved.

 

I don't know what you mean by a "Mary Sue of". That's not what a Mary Sue is. It has nothing to do with archetypes.

 

Yeah that's called an "archetype." A "Mary Sue" has a completely different definition attached to them.

 

Yes, I was responding to Tzizvvt's suggestion that she's a Mary Sue because she's taking the place of established characters, so I was trying to point out other characters who "replace" earlier characters/archetypes, but possibly badly-worded.

 

Anywaaaaaaaaay...

Star Wars! I hope this one has lightsabers.

 

Yeah but they're called laser swords now.

 

This changes everything!

 

If you can't see how what you said wasn't just misogynistic, but incredibly misogynistic, then you're a lost cause. And even if you're right about SW fan demographics (you're not), you also make the false assumption that the "90% male audience" mostly just wants to see male leads and male heroes and prefer the women to be, well, "chicks for guys to canoodle."

 

Well, it's not the only aspects of her character, there's stuff like knowing things and having skills other main characters should either know by now or struggled on-screen to master. This simple list comparing the two young, on-a-journey leads from different parts of the same saga, is a nice cliff-notes version of what I mean. Note that another modern SW lead like Jyn Erso does not fall into the same pitfalls as the writing for Rey did. And she had only one film to go through a character journey.

Despite his flaws, he pointed out some problems with the writing and marketing of "strong, female characters" that's prevalent in Hollywood productions these days.

 

Complaining that a new female character in a new film is a Mary Sue really gets my goat. Do you have any idea, ANY IDEA, how poorly women have been served in film through the years, especially in science fiction? The vast, vast majority of films have male leads. Who can do anything.
The ‘80’s had major testosterone fuelled movies by the bucket load, females were secondary characters in those while the males could do just about anything.
There are a sizeable chunk of films that currently have female leads who can do just about everything. There are still a lot of films where the males can do everything.
No one complains about the male led films.
Every female led film, every one (possibly bar Wonder Woman) gets tainted with this Mary Sue crap.

Grow up

 

Are you seriously comparing action schlock from the 80s to character-driven stories like SW? People generally watch 80s action knowing they're cheesy, not for seeing deep character exploration or development. I think you're creating false equivalence between writing characters meant to develop over time with one-shot action stars who's only job is delivering one-liners and trying not to stand too close to explosion rigs on a set.

 

So what do ya'll think of Star Trek: Discovery? We seem to have a similar situation on our hands with this new show.

 

Enough with your diversity agenda.

Sent from my Moto X-Wing

 

Pretty sure the mods won't appreciate this thread hosting the 1081261649124th Mary Sue debate.