ST The Marvel Cinematic Universe’s impact on new Star Wars films

Because under the current LFL, we’re talking about multiple creative individuals directing films, not one man who’s losing his touch. And saddling all of them with a house style and an overly restrictive Story Group would be a shame. I’d rather get an occasional AOTC than decades of vanilla.

 

Taika’s Ragnarok is the only MCU film that was allowed considerable artistic freedom outside the house style, though it was still consistent with the brand. Everything else, even though occasionally quite good (I really enjoyed IW and appreciated the cultural relevance of BP) is still shackled, IMO, by this mass-produced look and feel. Kathleen doesn’t want that for SW, and it’s one of many reasons I’m on her side, even if TLJ didn’t scratch my itch.

And there’s nothing vanilla about Solo or Rogue One. Those films feel like unique films, not standard tentpole blockbusters. They’ve got blood, guts, style. They look good, but are a little rough around the edges. That’s how I like Star Wars. And LFL, unless fans are successful in dragging the studio into becoming a cheap imitations of Marvel, like Star Wars that way too.

 

SW doesn't pump out 3 - 5 movies a year either and hopefully it never does. Ragnarok was very well done, but it was also Thor's standalone movie, not the Avengers.

It's very jarring to have a saga tying the OT cast to a new generation and go from what the TFA did then jump abruptly what TLJ does. Especially when there's absolutely no time jump that separates the two.

 

I've never watched the MCU except for the first Iron Man, but Disney's SW very much feels like an assembly line style to me. The "grit" is slightly turned up in the two spinoffs, but it's all largely driven by the rebels vs. Empire dynamic and all its visual accoutrements, on-the-go snappy banter, Earth-like frontier worlds with used-future set dressing. I definitely look elsewhere now if I want something that speaks of an individually-minded creative ambition.

 

Yeah - it was clear Disney was trying the assembly line approach to films with Star Wars like Marvel. Not as many but at least 1 a year. However they didn't have the depth of stories to draw off of. If they would have just adapted the EU for stories they would have had a better foundation. And I wasn't an EU fan but Disney is trying to re-invent the wheel with each director/writer. Should have just mined the existing content and adapted it for the screen - that's what Marvel did at it worked. Longtime fans got what they wanted. New fans who didn't know the stories were entertained. And writers don't have to start from square one so they can focus on adding their own personal touches to the story.

The Marvel blueprint is a good one, the most successful out there. It would be wise to learn from it, even if its not copied.

Going forward all we know is more time will be taken between films but besides that - no clue of the story plan and how to make sure its a interconnected cinematic universe.

 

I remember when GOTG came out and how it felt like a whole different kind of movie. It was so bizarrely different and super charming at the same time (and I will forever insist that is in major part thanks to Nicole Perlman).

And while I do think its style of humor influenced other Hollywood blockbuster movies (in which I include TLJ), I do think GOTG was itself a groundbreaker in terms of presenting something uniquely new. Previous Marvel movies had some humor, but GOTG took humor to a whole new (and intelligent) level, and in a way that it did not distract from the drama. I remember laughing and crying when I watched the movie, it was a fantastic movie experience for me.

Also, I’m not too keen on defending LFL for supposedly supporting “artistic freedom” when they 1) reigned in on Gareth Edwards and 2) fired the initial Solo directors for not liking their direction. They had that narrative of “we are bringing in new talent!” for the Anthology movies going on for a while, but clearly, that didn’t work with their committee vision. And now they are only bringing same old Hollywood successful white guys. Huh.

Meanwhile, the superhero franchises are the ones betting on actually new/underrated talent instead of Hollywood power houses, and not having the new guys fired for whatever or letting someone else reign in. Ryan Coogler, Patty Jenkins, Taika Waititi…

 

I’m talking about the end results of the Disney era LFL films seeming very atypical for Hollywood blockbusters. How they get there is not relevant to my point. Aside from Ragnarok, and perhaps the first GotG, MCU films all feel like amped up 90s TV to me. Same cheap formula rinsed and repeated. With some, like IW and BP, just doing it a little better. The SW films so far all feel very different front each other, and different from the blockbuster norm. Kennedy deserves enormous credit for that, and she certainly doesn’t deserve howling fans wishing she was more like fanboy Feige.

 

Agree that GOTG was uniquely different from other MCU movies. And Hulk, but it was made before the House Style was set.

Disagree with everything else. I feel TLJ humor was well timed. And Ren is more like if Anakin had given into the dark side on Tatooine and was conflicted until the lava bath. Well, actually Anakin was still conflicted on Mustafar crying after having dispatched with the Separatist Council.

 

The “House Style” is the main issue. What if LFL set a rigid House Style, and you don’t like it? That means you’ll probably dislike all the SW films. At least with a system where directors have a lot of creative freedom, there will always be a chance that the next director shares your sensibilities more than that last.

 

When a brand doesn't have a clear identity it suffers.

The strategy of "if you don't like this one, try this next one that could be totally different" reminds me of the DC cinematic failures.

Transformers has been bad quality movies for a while but keep making money because the audience knows what they're getting. Like McDonald's.

I can't think of a cinematic franchise that works being all over. DC TV shows do well because they are consistent.


To the original comparison - Marvel Studios does this very well across the board for those same reasons. Both large and small screen they are consistent in their type of stories. Individuals can put their own spin on it being true to the characters (Spiderman isnt like The Punisher) but formula works and fans have faith in it.

Star Wars under Lucas the same way. Disney stories. Pixar as well.

I can't think of any major brand that isn't consistent that does well and keeps public trust. If someone has examples of this working - by all means share.

 

X-Men worked well allowing different styles.

The odd thing about SW is that people are boycotting because they didn't like 1 film out of 4. Which is a very odd success rate to declare a boycott over. DC is essentially the opposite - people didn't like 3 films out of 4, and yet people like to compare them, which is baffling.

 

SW had a house style, and I personally thought it was swell. R1 stuck to it, and big surprise, it’s my favorite Disney SW.

SW is a spiritual family story of good versus evil in an adventure context. You can blur the lines between good versus evil, like in R1, but if you destroy the line while destroying the concept of family, like in TLJ, you’ve made what I personally don’t come to SW for. Inevitably I’ll be here next time they return to the house style, or formula, that I think this franchise belongs to.

 

I'd argue Lucas was one of the people who abhorred a 'house style', and to extent there is a house style (underlying themes) it has been maintained by all of the current films.

Each of Lucas's SW films were fairly distinct, which is why many people had problems with the PT. In this way TLJ is just as similar to ANH as AOTC is to ANH. The underlying thees were maintained in my opinion - TLJ reinforces the concept of good vs evil (it discusses then subject to confirm what the other films says) and I'd argue it expands the concept of family by suggesting that family is also beyond blood.

 

Lucas saw SW as a family soap opera. He is very very clear about that. But he definitely did like creativity. He wasn’t a “soft reboot” kind of guy. Basically, the ST just did the opposite of what Lucas believed in for SW. Destroy the family, otherwise copy the source.

SW has always shown family as extending beyond blood. It’s an extreme misunderstanding of previous SW films, and GL, not to understand that. The ST didn’t expand on family. They destroyed the blood family of the Skywalkers, and Rey’s found family from TFA.

 

TLJ doesn't 'destroy' family. Rey, and the other characters, have found each other - a family. The theme of family has been maintained from Lucas's era.

 

Rey was more concerned about being there for Kylo than she was about her “family” that he maimed and murdered. That doesn’t reflect any family value that I’m aware of.

 

Yes one instance of the hero of being a fool means the entire ST isn't about family. Despite the fact she ultimately rejects Kylo and saves her family and will no doubt fight for them in the future.

 

I didn’t criticize her for being a fool. I criticized the film for having her for whitewashing the murder and maiming of her supposed family. That doesn’t happen inside of a real family.

 

Luke, Han, Leia and "Ben" - that family is intact and wonderful. Yeah, not so much.

I even have to read fans saying that they never expected Luke, Han and Leia to remain friends.

Maybe the Manson Family....

(oh, c'mon, someone had to....)

 

Again, this doesn't mean that the entire trilogy, as a whole, isn't about family.

These films have never been about family being limited to blood.

 

X-Men? Definitely debatable. And only different style was Logan and that was a great movie - critics and fans agreed. For SW, specifically TLJ - there are obviously different opinions.

As for SW. People boycotted 2 out of 4. Only the last one caught the full blast. The legs and merchandise sales for TLJ make it clear some fans felt a certain type of way about it. Solo wasn't bad - it just got caught with the full blast.

And as with DC, X-Men, Star Wars, whatever - all of them are viewed through the same lense by the casual moviegoer.

No one is limiting to blood. It was clear in TFA that Han and Finn were family to Rey. In TLJ she threw that aside for whatever that was.

Again - it changes the dynamic of what a Star Wars movie is. Some love that - that's fine. But when brands constantly change up they tend to lose consumer trust. Whether movies or TV or food industry or any other business.

 

Did I say that? No. Also, originally, Luke, Han and Leia weren't related by blood - like Rey, Finn and Poe now. Or at least what they're trying to do with them. I was disputing

When it most certainly does - it and TFA - Luke, Han, Leia and "Ben."