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The Multilingual Writers Club: Hey, look! It's the quote of the day!

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction and Writing Resource' started by SilSolo, Jan 11, 2005.

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  1. DarthIshtar

    DarthIshtar Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    Yay, welcome to the Spanish club, ShrunkenJedi. :)
     
  2. darshaassant

    darshaassant Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2005
    It's dong liu li? Hmm... maybe because I watched the pirated version... :p But I have the real one too. :D Is apprentice/Padawan the usual tu di?

     
  3. ShrunkenJedi

    ShrunkenJedi Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2003
    Thanks for the welcome, Ishtar! (¿O deberia haber dicho, <<¡Gracias por la bienvenida, Ishar!>>?) :D

    (And I heartily concur with the first line in your sig! ;) )
     
  4. SilSolo

    SilSolo Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2004
    Darshaassant: Well, that was according to TPM, which is the only Chinese Star Wars movie that I have.

    Ah yes, I think Paddy is Tu Di.

    Now for more terms that I just remembered:
    English: Lord Vader
    French: Seigneur Vader

    English: Midi-Chlorian
    Chinese: Chao Sheng Su

    English: Skywalker
    French: Skywalker (with a different pronounciation)
    Chinese: Tian Xing Ren (if I recall TPM correctly)

    English: Death Star
    French: l'Etoile de Morte

    English: Shamed One
    French: Honteux/se

    English: Warrior (Yuuzhan Vong caste)
    French: guerrier(e)

    English: Dark Side
    French: cote obscure
    Chinese: *Stang! I know I've heard the term, just can't remember it off the top of my head*

    English: dovin basal
    French: basal dovin

    English: ooglith masquer
    French: armure ooglith

    Well that's all I can think of for now.
     
  5. Vongchild

    Vongchild Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 2, 2004
    That's better than I can do for hebrew.

    Literally, death star would be "Kohav Meyta" but..... [face_worried]

     
  6. AlrikFassbauer

    AlrikFassbauer Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 2, 2003
    German :

    Death Star -> Todesstern
    Skywalker -> Himmelsgeher

    Lord is the same here, well, originally a Lord is a Herr in German, but since Herr is formally used with the same meaning as Mister" (when you call names), it doesn't make much sense to use Herr as Lord, because there would be no difference in German language between the equivalents of Mister and Lord.

    Dark Side -> Dunkle Seite

    The Force cannot be translatede into German. we don't have a word for that.
    Instead, translators have used "Kraft" and "Macht", where Macht is usially translated into English as Power, and Kraft as Strength. we simply don't have a word for the Force.

    But as I found out, the Twi'lek can actually be translated into German. The lekku are shortened into "lek", but the "twi" part also appears in T"wins" and in "twilight". It appears with exactlky the same meaning in German . "Zwi". Therefore a correct translation would be "Zwi'lek". But you won't find it anywhere, because German translators tend to literally transport names and terms from English into German. For example names of Star Destroyers are kept completely in English, although they do have a meaning "like "Corruptor" or "Iron Fist" or so. I don't like that.
    At some point in the German language the T in some words turned into a Z, but I don't know when this was ( apart from the fact that it was several hundred years ago). So Twilight turned into Zwilicht. The German Z isn't spoken like the English Z at all, but rather like an English TS.

     
  7. Alethia

    Alethia Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2005
    Skywalker -> Himmelsgeher


    Theoretically yes. But last time I saw the movies in German, the name Skywalker was left alone. Character names usually are, for the most part.

    In German, the Force is called 'die Macht' when spoken of in the sentence: Möge die Macht mit dir sein- May the Force be with you.

    Death Star is Todesstern, I remember that. And let me think of more terms...

    Emperor: Imperator, not Kaiser (which would be the actual translation).

    Empire: Imperium (again, not Reich, as would be expected)


    And I'm sure I can come up with more later on...
     
  8. darshaassant

    darshaassant Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Mar 13, 2005
    I was sort of expecting Emperor to be Fuhrer....:) But anyway... du bist eine depp.
     
  9. Viola_Telcontar

    Viola_Telcontar Jedi Master star 1

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    Nov 14, 2004
    I was sort of expecting Emperor to be Fuhrer....:) But anyway... du bist eine depp.

    In fact, the word Führer just means leader. Strictly speaking it is no title, while Kaiser or Imperator is an inherited position (that's why I'm confused about Emperor Palpatine).
    Let's just say that there is and will always be only one Führer in German.

    Skywalker -> Himmelsgeher

    Alethia is right, we don't translate the name in Germany. The only time I ever saw "translated" names was in Lord of the Rings (Baggins -> Beutlin).
    It really makes a Tolkienish feeling.

    As for the translation of Emperor as Imperator and Empire as Imperium, I just think it has something to do with similar syllables. It is always frustrating to watch a movie and see people talk and no sound is there, or the actors don't move their lips, while their German voice speak...

    Hm, maybe the translators also wanted to make a resemblance to the old Romans rather than medieval emperors. And the word "Reich" makes most German subconsciously think of the Third Reich. Many would frown upon such a connection. It would feel cheap and irreverent.

    I like the translation of Force as Macht. The word Kraft doesn't have the same divine quality. As Alrik said, it has more the meaning of strength.

    Well, I'll stop now and watch the approaching thunderstorm...
     
  10. SilSolo

    SilSolo Jedi Knight star 5

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    Mar 5, 2004
    Sorry if I am inaccurate (fell asleep half way through that boring 900page pile of political bantha fodder about Hitler), but in German, I believe Fuhrer translates to leader and Imperator is the literal translation for Emperor. In fact, I think the English for every word derived from 'empire' came from Imperator.

    English: Emperor
    Latin: Caesar (I think)
     
  11. Alethia

    Alethia Jedi Master star 5

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    Feb 13, 2005
    Hm, maybe the translators also wanted to make a resemblance to the old Romans rather than medieval emperors. And the word "Reich" makes most German subconsciously think of the Third Reich. Many would frown upon such a connection. It would feel cheap and irreverent.

    After living in Germany for four years, I've definitely picked up on that. As you said, there only is one Führer and there probably only will be one. And that carried over to Reich as well, in a way. We just started the Weimarer Republik and therefore just finished der Deutsche Kaiser Reich, but when someone says 'Reich', it's automatically assumed that they mean the one under Hitler, not the one with the Kaiser Wilhelms.

    As for the translation of Emperor as Imperator and Empire as Imperium, I just think it has something to do with similar syllables. It is always frustrating to watch a movie and see people talk and no sound is there, or the actors don't move their lips, while their German voice speak...

    I hate that. Absolutely hate that. Especially when you can pick it out so easily. It's fairly obvious dubbing when the lips aren't moving yet there is voices. And the dubs always sound fake to me and all the same.

    I like the translation of Force as Macht. The word Kraft doesn't have the same divine quality. As Alrik said, it has more the meaning of strength.


    In the books I've seen it used both ways, but Kraft is usually used when they're talking about the physical aspect of it and Macht when they're talking of the mystical version. And Macht does seem to be used more often,


    English: Emperor
    Latin: Caesar


    Yes, in Latin, Caesar is emperor. In German, however, the word Kaiser is used. Imperator just really isn't used, it seems to me. Perhaps it's Middle German or something, which would account for the English word 'Emperor' having it's roots in the word and also account for the fact that it's so rare to see now, seeing how Middle German went out of style about 300 years ago (I think)...
     
  12. Viola_Telcontar

    Viola_Telcontar Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2004
    Yes, in Latin, Caesar is emperor. In German, however, the word Kaiser is used. Imperator just really isn't used, it seems to me.

    OK, being a wisea** (I'm not allowed to say that here, am I?).
    Now I really looked up, because I can't remember the first time I ever heard the word Imperator.

    "Der kleine Stowasser", THE German/Latin dictionary, gives the explanations

    Caesar: Since C. Iulius Caesar Octavianus (the nephew and adopted son of C. Iulius Caesar) all emperors claim the title Caesar

    Imperator: 1. lord, 2. commander, 3. honorary title a) victorious commander, b) emperor...

    "I speak Spanish to God, Italian to women, French to men and German to my horse" Emperor Charles V.

    I have vague memories that the German emperors used to call themselves Imperator rather than Kaiser (horrible German!), but I'm not sure anymore. :confused:

    In the books I've seen it used both ways, but Kraft is usually used when they're talking about the physical aspect of it and Macht when they're talking of the mystical version.

    Yes, it depends very much on who translated the books.
    I absolutely agree with your resentment of the German versions of the books, though I'm native German-speaker (Undoubtedly, you'll have noticed my very "German way" to talk English... I really try!). I have never seen such a horrible and loveless translation as Helweg's take on Jedi Trial! *shudder* AND I read the new translation of LotR... How naive to think that there could not be anything worse!

    Just look how much time I needed to make absolutely no important point!
     
  13. ShrunkenJedi

    ShrunkenJedi Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2003
    Okay... I haven't read any SW books in Spanish, mainly because I haven't read any SW books at all. I haven't tried any Spanish subtitles on the movies, either... never really thought about it, I guess. But do read Harry Potter in Spanish (figured if I was going to read it, I might as well use it for learning, too... now I really like them.) But they do have some words in common... for instance...

    Dark Side: Lado Oscuro
    Dark Lord: Señor Tenebroso

    Now, I'm fairly sure the first one would be translated the same way... but I'm not so sure the same translation for Dark Lord would hold for the SW context. I would be interested to find out... does anyone know?
     
  14. DarthIshtar

    DarthIshtar Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    "When you love, you speak french
    when you cook great food, you speak italian
    when you speak to god, you speak spanish."
     
  15. Alethia

    Alethia Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2005
    Der kleine Stowasser", THE German/Latin dictionary, gives the explanations

    Now I feel stupid- why didn't I check my Stowasser? It's sitting next to me on my desk (though I dropped Latin this year, so I don't know why it's there...). Anyway, I don't have the 'kleine' version, but the normal one... and mine says the same thing.


    I have vague memories that the German emperors used to call themselves Imperator rather than Kaiser (horrible German!), but I'm not sure anymore.

    Perhaps if I paid a bit more atention in History... No, actually, I have no clue. I was just guessing. But that would make sense.


    (Undoubtedly, you'll have noticed my very "German way" to talk English... I really try!).

    Actually, I didn't really and that's something I usually pick up immediately on, since I'm faced with it so often. There were a few things- like in that sentence, not 'talk' but 'speak', but for the most part it's very good.


    I have never seen such a horrible and loveless translation as Helweg's take on Jedi Trial!

    *grins* It took me two visits to the Thalia in Heidelberg and one to Buch Kaiser in Karlsruhe to read that. And though I'll admit that I speed-read most of it, even I noticed some weird things. Which is why I usually refuse to read translated books- because that is not my first experience with a translation that has butchered the original. If the author has written it originally in German, then I will read it in German. But I won't buy at least any books that have been translated from English to German...

    Though I'm tempted to just buy Labyrinth des Bösen, because it's impossible to find it in English here with out spending a fortune... But for the moment, I'll settle reading it in German in the bookstores.
     
  16. Viola_Telcontar

    Viola_Telcontar Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2004
    Now I feel stupid- why didn't I check my Stowasser? It's sitting next to me on my desk (though I dropped Latin this year, so I don't know why it's there...). Anyway, I don't have the 'kleine' version, but the normal one... and mine says the same thing.

    Don't! Only weird people like me look these things up.

    Perhaps if I paid a bit more atention in History... No, actually, I have no clue. I was just guessing. But that would make sense.

    Well, I'm 22, my last history class about the Middle Ages was about 8 years ago. I can tell you much about the time 1789-1949, but I can't guarantee that I'm correct with the Imperator stuff.

    Actually, I didn't really and that's something I usually pick up immediately on, since I'm faced with it so often. There were a few things- like in that sentence, not 'talk' but 'speak', but for the most part it's very good.

    [face_blush] Thank you very much. As a future scientist, it is kind of inevitable to learn English, so I decided to "nurse" my vocabulary and you are all my victims [face_devil]
    I was a little worried after failing to understand huge parts of Huxley's Brave New World without dictionary. I hate looking things up.

    I usually refuse to read translated books- because that is not my first experience with a translation that has butchered the original. If the author has written it originally in German, then I will read it in German. But I won't buy at least any books that have been translated from English to German...

    I tend to do the same more and more. Funny, my sister really had to convince me to read my first English book (she wants to become English teacher). Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone btw. And now I'm usually complaining about translations.

    I remember how much I laughed when I found Erich Maria Remarque's Im Westen nichts Neues in English(All Quiet on the Western Front) in the bookshelf of my flat mate. It was so funny to see the English version of a German book in a room of a native German-speaker.

    It is really strange how difficult it is to find the original English versions of Star Wars books in German bookstores.
    I live in a city where almost every 5th inhabitant is a student (Münster), so there are a lot of people who buy English literature on a regular basis. There are even bookstores I know that have a special shelf for recent French literature, but it seems to be impossible to get Star Wars novels in English. Terry Pratchett, J. K. Rowling, Eoin Colfer, Ann Rice, Stephen King... no problem at all, but Star Wars? No way!
    That's really frustrating. Especially if you want to write fanfiction in English but don't know half of the words. And it feels wrong to write in German.
     
  17. Alethia

    Alethia Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2005
    And it feels wrong to write in German.

    It feels weird for me too, but I always figured it was because German was my second language and therefore I?m not as comfortable writing in it as I am in English.

    And it?s interesting about finding the books. I?ve been to Münster, but just for a short visit. I?m right between Heidelberg and Karlsruhe and there are a lot of Americans here because of the base, so you?d also think there would be more English books and Star Wars books. There?s even an American Library in Karlsruhe. Yet none of the bookstores has English books. Actually, in Heidelberg, my mother and I came across an entirely English bookstore, but since it was a Sunday, it was closed. I?d like to go back sometime and check it out- they might have the books there. But other than that? I saw one NJO in Bremen in Thalia like three years ago, but since then, I haven?t seen any SW books at all. And it disappoints me?


    I remember how much I laughed when I found Erich Maria Remarque's Im Westen nichts Neues in English(All Quiet on the Western Front) in the bookshelf of my flat mate. It was so funny to see the English version of a German book in a room of a native German-speaker.


    That is ironic?
     
  18. Viola_Telcontar

    Viola_Telcontar Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2004
    there are a lot of Americans here because of the base, so you?d also think there would be more English books and Star Wars books.

    We have many British soldiers here, most of their families live in my neighborhood (on sunny days it is more likely for me to hear children play in English than in German when I open my window), but I really think the students are the reason that it's easier for me to get my hands on English literature (when it's not SW, of course).

    I have decided to watch RotS in English (if I can persuade my friends, but that will not be a problem. They watched the last Harry Potter with me in the original version, not to mention LotR). It won't be so crowded.
    Again, thanks to all those students, there is at least one non-German film every week in the cinemas here. The strangest thing I've ever seen was a French movie with English subtitles. The two languages were fighting in my head, so I kept thinking in German. It was quite annoying.

    I always figured it was because German was my second language and therefore I?m not as comfortable writing in it as I am in English.

    I can't tell you why, but Star Wars and particular the books don't feel natural in German. I don't think most Germans think this way, but I do.
    Maybe it is because the first EU I ever read was said Jedi Trial (Feuertaufe), and it was so extremely horrible. I really considered to never read any Star Wars book again, but then I tried Rogue Planet and it was much better. I don't remember who translated LoE, but I think it was alright.

    Maybe I've read too much fanfiction here and it spoiled me?

    edit: I'm curious, is there anyone who ever read Harry Potter in their native language?
    *looks at her watch*
    2.10 in the morning!!! I'm off til sunday...
     
  19. Alethia

    Alethia Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2005
    I'm curious, is there anyone who ever read Harry Potter in their native language?

    *grins* I did... in English.

    THat's cool that there are always English movies playing. in Mannheim occasionally there will be an English movie at the theaters and in Bruchsal (where I go to school) there is a theater that will show a movie in English if it is very popular, like HP3, LOTR, Finding Nemo, etc. But I think I'm going to see ROTS in Mannheim, which is a nicer theater. Plus my mother gets to be the one stuck driving me, since she wants to see it herself. And I'm not seeing it with her in German- it drove me nuts in AOTC when she kept on asking me every five minutes what the characters were talking about.

    And I wonder why the SW books translate so oddly into German. LOE has been good so far (I'm only on chapter 12), but I also don't remember who translated it. Other than that, I read the AOTC novel in German, Feuertaufe, Jedi Quest- Pfad der Erkenntnis and that's it. And like I said, for me it's always strange, but it's very interesting to hear that it's strange for you as well.
     
  20. DarthIshtar

    DarthIshtar Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    I've read Harry Potter in english, latin, french, and spanish.
     
  21. ShrunkenJedi

    ShrunkenJedi Jedi Knight star 5

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    Apr 26, 2003
    ^ I Only read the first and 5th books in English (I'm crazy, I know, I already knew that :p). Caught me off guard the first time I heard "mudblood" in the movies, for instance.
     
  22. AlrikFassbauer

    AlrikFassbauer Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 2, 2003
    Sorry if I am inaccurate (fell asleep half way through that boring 900page pile of political bantha fodder about Hitler), but in German, I believe Fuhrer translates to leader and Imperator is the literal translation for Emperor. In fact, I think the English for every word derived from 'empire' came from Imperator.

    I would agree. The term "Imperator" - although this word exists - is never used in German language, as far as I know. An Emperor was in German language always a Kaiser.

    We do use the term "English Empire", but that remains an English term, and is never translated into German.

    Generalla, names of any sort are *never* translated into German, which keeps the original meaning, but only to those capable of the Englsh language.

    When a Star Destroyer called "Corruptor" actually destroys a settlement, in the English language there is also a subtle meaning with the name of the Star Destroyer. People not knowing the English language treat the unexplainable English name as a kind of symbol : It is there, but never explained. And therefore it doesn't add to the story.

    That's why I'm so against literally keeping of names of vessels etc. Even Luke Skywalker has a "hidden", suble meaning a person not capable of the English Language won't ever see !

     
  23. DarthIshtar

    DarthIshtar Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    LOL, that's like me and movies at church. Especially this one called Finding Faith in Christ. I had to be the simultaneous translator for it until it came out in Spanish, so all the dialogue in my head is slightly off because it's the spanishized english translation.
     
  24. Viola_Telcontar

    Viola_Telcontar Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2004
    I just found [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Europe_Region_General_Discussion/b10026/18451016/?55]this.[/link]
     
  25. Cobranaconda

    Cobranaconda Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2004
    I started writing a fic in Glaswegian, but then AOL got to it, and I can't read or post more now.

    And I forgot to save it on my computer.

    I might start a fic in Middle English, but my language isn't perfect, so a co-author would be nice. No plot ideas yet though.
     
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