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PT The Mystery of Sifo Dyas… Canonized…

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by mikeximus, Dec 9, 2014.

  1. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    As stated in the episode, the clones have proven to be loyal and had saved their (Jedi) lives many times throughout the war. However, it's not like the Jedi can simply choose to discard the army. The war is still going on. They don't have all the answers, but their present reality hasn't changed. It only adds more intrigue, doesn't make them morons.
     
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  2. Subtext Mining

    Subtext Mining Jedi Master star 3

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    Apr 27, 2016
    If Sifo-Dyas ordered the army, how could Tyranus take over without Dyas' say-so?

    Either, Dyas would've had to have known Dooku's new name, or Dooku would've needed a Dyas look-alike to tell the Kaminoans that Tyranus is taking over.

    (Enter Wessell, if one is to entertain the latter).

    Or a third possibility, Tryanus simply took over and the Kaminoans didn't question it. Keeping in mind they appear to be unaware of Dyas' death. I suppose Dooku could've found a way to explain that Dyas is an associate of his and is continuing as the liaison on Dyas' behalf, due to his busy schedule.

    Or, both Dyas and Dooku always keep their hood pulled over thier face when they talk to the Kaminoans.

    Why didn't Kenobi ask the Kaminoans who Tyranus was after Jango mentioned the name?
     
  3. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    Even if Sifo Dyas was involved (which he wasn't) he couldn't pay for the army, so the Kaminoans wouldn't even entertain his request had he made it. It was Tyranus (count, royalty, wealth) who paid for the army, he was a Jedi once so he had access to the archives, he was the one who hired the template and he was the one in league with Sidious. Sifo Dyas had nothing to do with it. He's just an alias whose identity Dooku knew he could use.
     
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  4. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 8, 2015
    Subtext Mining

    Do the Kaminoans keep photographic records of their partners? That's another loose end I'm confident the Sith didn't leave untied. Or the deal was established via holographic messages. As soon as the money arrived, the Kaminoans weren't probably that much concerned whether their business partner was the person he claimed to be.
     
  5. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Geekiest RYLer star 7 VIP - Game Winner

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    Dec 7, 2014
    Son of Dathomir is a part of TCW, one of the unreleased arcs from Season 7.
     
  6. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Newcanon sources say he was.
     
  7. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    [​IMG]
     
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  8. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    That's why I say after AOTC, they figured it out.

    Or they had figured it out on their own, way before he was kidnapped.

    The increased hunt is because they've eliminated Dooku and now need to find the Master. This, combined with Palpatine's own actions, is urging them to find out if Sidious is truly involved in the Senate or not.

    That's you're interpretation of it. The Jedi already know that he's a Sith and he's referring to the idea of joining him to be his Apprentice like Ventress had been.

    And as I said, Dooku might very well believe that he will destroy Sidious once he has his own Apprentice that he can use to help him. Omitting a detail isn't exactly a lie.

    If the Geonosians have not signed a treaty giving him authority, then he cannot do much until they have signed it.

    Or he was telling the truth which was why he was killed. The Databank just decided to try and have it both ways and ignored what Silman said.
     
  9. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 12, 2016
    We can't even be sure if Silman's statement about someone wanting to be Sifo-Dyas has any root in truth or just mad ravings with no basis. (Also, how would Silman learn if someone had impersonated Sifo-Dyas to place the order if A.) the order was secretly placed (to the best of my knowledge, all accounts agree on that), and B.) Silman was captured by the Pykes before it was placed (which would need to the order of things if Sifo-Dyas was killed so that Dooku could use his ID to place the order)?
     
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  10. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 8, 2015
    Anakin: Who was responsible?
    Silman: Someone powerful, someone who who wanted to be Sifo-Dyas.
    Obi Wan:Why?
    Silman: All is deception. [chuckles] Can't you see? Because because

    It is at this point that Darth Tyranus shows up and Force Chokes Silman to death before he can finish his sentence.

    How can there be any doubt he was telling the truth? That was the obvious intention of the screenplay writer and the very reason why he got killed, suggesting Dooku was involved.

    I.e. the truth was a bigger risk for Dooku, than killing Silman and being suspected.

    Had Silman gone crazy Dooku would have just let him continue with his ramblings until Silman claimed it was Santa Claus who wanted to pose as Sifo-Dyas. :p
     
  11. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001

    Silman probably found out because he watched Sifo-Dyas and Dooku fight and along the way Dooku let it slip that if Sifo-Dyas would not help him, then he would eliminate him and use his name. Or he saw Dooku converse with Sidious and heard the plan. Either way, there's no reason for him to say that if there wasn't some truth to it, regardless of his mental state.
     
  12. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 12, 2016
    But Dooku wasn't on the mission to the Pykes.
     
  13. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Yes, he was. The Jedi learn that Sifo-Dyas and another Jedi went off together.

    OBI-WAN: "I have spoken with the tribal leaders on Felucia. They use a very ancient dialect, which is hard to understand, but from what I can make out, when Master Sifo-Dyas died, he was not alone. There was a second Jedi here with him."

    YODA: "And the name of this second Jedi?"

    OBI-WAN: "Either I don't understand them, or they won't say. It's hard to tell. This is a primitive people we are dealing with."

    What they don't know is who went with him until Minister Lom identifies Dooku as Tyranus and they realize that he was the second Jedi, as well as the one who hired Jango.
     
  14. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 12, 2016

    But Sifo-Dyas never went to Felucia himself; he was shot down on a moon at Oba Dyah (the planet he was originally sent to for the Pyke mission). The Felucian's story doesn't add up, so everything in it is suspect. Is it possible that the Sith got them to make up a cover story or something? (Also remember that Anakin and Obi-Wan are having trouble understanding the Felucians, so the accuracy of what the Jedi think they're being told is a second layer of questionability to the whole story.)
     
  15. True Sith

    True Sith Jedi Master star 4

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    May 10, 2015
    No, if I'm remembering correctly Sifo-Dyas was on Felucia briefly before being shot down as he tried to go to Oba-Diah. That's how Dooku was able to trick them and have his remains buried there. The Felucians pretty clearly would've had to have met Sifo-Dyas before that.
     
  16. Subtext Mining

    Subtext Mining Jedi Master star 3

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    Apr 27, 2016
  17. Subtext Mining

    Subtext Mining Jedi Master star 3

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    Apr 27, 2016
    darth-sinister WebLurker

     
  18. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 12, 2016
    Hmm. Okay, I guess that makes sense. Why couldn't the episode have made that more clear? I was watching it and trying to understand what the Felucians had to gain by lying and why there were so many plot holes.
     
  19. darth_mccartney

    darth_mccartney Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 3, 2008
    You know what, I'm happy with no solid explaination for this. Makes you appreciate the murky mist of lies, deceit and darkness that the Jedi were trying to peer through.
     
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  20. Subtext Mining

    Subtext Mining Jedi Master star 3

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    Apr 27, 2016
    ^ Which is what I believe is the point.

    We are privy to many elements in the story that the Jedi aren't. But this is one thing we are not shown.
     
  21. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001

    VALORUM: "The Senate committee assigned to the matter feared that open discussions with such a criminal element could legitimize their activities and give strength to opposition leaders within the bureaucracy. Secrecy was our only choice."

    YODA: "The timing of these negotiations, when were they to take place?"

    VALORUM: "I cannot remember the precise timing, I'm afraid. It was so long ago. I do remember that the talks were postponed not long after our delegates arrived on Oba Diah, something about a flare-up of activity on Felucia."

    YODA: "Yes, intervene on Felucia, the Council insisted Sifo-Dyas did. But tell me, Chancellor, who was the other Jedi you sent with Sifo-Dyas?"

    VALORUM: "Other Jedi? I know of no other Jedi. There was only my personal aide, Silman, and Sifo-Dyas. I'm afraid they were both killed on Felucia."



    OBI-WAN: "So we have one dead Jedi with no physical evidence of a body, a second Jedi who appeared on Felucia that we have no record of, and now this Silman, personal attache to the Chancellor, is missing?"

    ANAKIN: "Yet now we know Sifo-Dyas and Silman were both on Oba Diah, according to Chancellor Valorum."

    PLO KOON: "The crashed shuttle I found was located on a moon which orbits the Pyke planet."

    YODA: "Hmm. To the Pykes you must go, to Oba Diah, yes."
     
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  22. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 12, 2016

    But then how was Sifo-Dyas shot down on the Oba Diah moon? Was he coming back to resume the original talks when he was shot down? My thing is, it's okay if we don't know all the pieces, but I feel like the Felucia story doesn't mesh with the Oba Diah one at all.
     
  23. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Sifo-Dyas, Dooku and Silman arrived on Obi Diah for the negotiations. They weren't there long when the Council contacted Sifo-Dyas about going to Felucia. Dooku, meanwhile had negotiated with Minister Lom to shoot down the ship. He made an excuse to stay behind while Sifo-Dyas and Silman had attempted to go to Felucia, but were shot down as they were leaving. Sifo-Dyas might have been alive long enough to fight Dooku and was killed then and this is how Silman finds out that Dooku wanted to be him. Silman was left behind, the ship was on the Pyke moon, but Dooku had Sifo-Dyas moved to Felucia and had him cremated. Because the Jedi don't employ Protocol Droids, it would make proving things a bit more difficult. Remember, "The Lost One" begins with a distress signal being activated on the Pyke moon which leads Plo Koon to go there to investigate. The Jedi couldn't find his ship which would probably contain a record of what he was doing in the moments leading to his death.

    It really is simple, once you sort out the timeline of events.
     
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  24. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 12, 2016

    That makes sense (if we assume that Dooku was on the trip, too). But why did the Felucians act like Sifo-Dyas had visited alive?
     
  25. True Sith

    True Sith Jedi Master star 4

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    May 10, 2015
    A while ago when I had some time on my hands I watched the episodes and wrote down and sorted out the order of events, but now I'm getting confused again. :p What was the dialogue again that confirmed the Felucians had actually met Sifo-Dyas? Like what was said above, I think they must've just seen his body, and Dooku just made them think he had been killed there.