ST The New Definitely Not Improved Even More Horrible Than The Last Two Rumors Thread

No Palpatine, R2-D2, C3P0, Luke, Leia or Anakin either

 

Just going by my knowledge of advent calendars. The advent calendar appears to be made out of a section of both posters. Finn may be on the good guys poster but he does not appear on the (pretend?) advent calendar.

 

It's quite funny that peolpe Inc Alec Guinness and Harrison Ford dismissed his script writing but thsr didnt stop a generation learning it word for word and some phrases as well known as those coined by poets

 

Bespin Bulletin said that Finn, Jannah, and 3PO are cropped out of the hero side.

 

I am probably late to the party but if these rumors are true then Kylo Ren is an even bigger idiot than Anakin Skywalker. At least Anakin had Palpatine manipulating him since he was a child, slowly adjusting his world view to try and bring him around to Palpatines' way of thinking...and even then when Palpatine tried to float the idea that the Sith and the Jedi are the same, (At the concert) Anakin flat out rejected that line of thinking. In TROS (if the rumors are true) a 'weak and dying' Palpatine tells Kylo Ren that he wants to leave his secret fleet / empire in the hands of a worthy successor so if Kylo could just bring Rey to him, he'll make them both the rulers of a new and better Empire!

Palpatine: "Why am I doing this? because together you two will form the ultimate power in the universe...and you like power right Kylo Ren? Of course you do!"

Kylo Ren: "Well you're a known manipulative bastard that even my own Grandfather wanted to kill and replace, so I see no problems here."

What follows is the reaction of every single past force user:



On the other hand I now fully understand where Luke went wrong in Kylo's training...he skipped over 'Common Sense', 'Pattern Recognition', and 'Logic & Reasoning: 101' because apparently THAT'S what Kylo Ren needed before even broaching the subject of The Force.

 

Which has been obvious since the first time we saw Kylo Ren.

 

Well he is a Skywalker after all.

 

He’s blinded by his desire to make Rey his Empress. It’s classic villain stuff. Making pacts with the devil. It’s a continuation of what he tried to achieve last movie. And he’s probably thinking that Palpatine, as her grandfather, and master manipulator, will be able to arrange this dark side Union like an unholy arranged marriage and he’s a dark sider so he’s accepting the quicker and easier path to his desire and will obviously end up empty handed in that pursuit.

 

I'm also be willing to bet: kylo knows he is being manipulated, from the start...

 

This is going to be a scene honestly that context is key...Although it was said Kylo is skeptical.

If it's just ROTJ again and Kylo is all "Yes my master" then obviously yeah...Boo...Dumb.

But if we see Kylo being unsure, being a bit..."Eeeeeeeh your probably tricking me but I'm gonna find Rey anyway" then it will be more or less okay.

 

That’s perhaps part of it as well. Just as Vader knew deep down that Palpatine was truly looking to replace him with his son the whole time but also wanted the chance to keep things fluid and see if he could turn Luke to join him in time to overthrow the Emperor.

Being a dark sider is a crooked poker game where everyone thinks that they can outcheat the others and out think the other and that even if they can’t they’re dangerous enough to be the last one standing regardless.

 

Um... to the contrary... some examples of Skywalker wisdom...

Shmi: You cannot stop the change any more than you can stop the suns from setting.

Anakin: Wouldn't have lasted so long anyway if I wasn't so good at building things.

Luke -
C3P0: Don't worry Artoo. Im sure master Luke will be alright. He's quite clever you know. For a human being.

Leia -
Vader: Her resistance to the mind probe is considerable, it will be some time before we can extract any information from her.

Rey (I hope) -
I'm not giving you anything.
...
You... you're afraid... that you will never be as strong as Darth Vader!


Kylo: The one from the village. FN-2187.


If it indeed turned out Kylo was playing Palpatine as well I would be very amused.

 

So I have a totally fanfic, in-head canon idea for the Mortis gods. My pitch is that they were the remnants of a pre-Republic civilisation, like thousands, perhaps millions of years before the Jedi came to prominence. The idea was that there was a civilisation that completely mastered the Force to the point where they could manipulate reality itself but the one thing that alluded them was true immortality. One group of this Force god civilisation was willing to do whatever was necessary to achieve immortality and another group dedicated themselves to stopping them, essentially resulting in a civil war that effectively destroyed that civilisation. Then there was another group, the group that didn't fight in the civil war and that group was what we know as the Whills and they were the ones who discovered true immortality.

In my pre-TLJ in-head fanfic canon, I had the idea that Snoke was descended from the Force gods and that he basically "created" Rey to be a kind of living Force weapon, an instrument to help restore the true masters of the Force to glory and that her parents were members of the First Order who hid her away to keep her from Snoke. This would explain how she learns Force abilities so quickly. With Rey lost, Snoke would turn to what he saw as a tainted Skywalker bloodline to fulfil his ambition to restore the legacy of the Force gods and this would then lead to Snoke abandoning Kylo Ren upon learning that Rey was his long lost Force weapon.

Is my idea any good? I dunno...probably not but I can't help but feeling that I and a heck of a lot of other people here and elsewhere have spent more time contemplating Star Wars lore and logical paths for characters than any of the filmmakers have. I get the sense that Abrams knowledge of Star Wars is basically superficial, based on what he remembers from watching the movies as a kid and more concerned with recreating his fondest memories than actually exploring and expanding on the lore.

And ultimately therein lies the problem with the sequels. The filmmakers have approached it as a movie franchise whereas I suspect most of us view Star Wars as something akin to Lord Of The Rings. We don't see it just a movie franchise that you can add stuff to as you see fit, we see a mythology, we see lore and are inclined, with good reason, to be uncomfortable with anyone who views crafting a Star Wars story as playing with toys in a sandbox. Kennedy and co treat Star Wars like a Hollywood franchise, which is the opposite of how Star Wars should be treated. It has more in common with the Iliad than it does Fast and Furious and it's heartbreaking to see such a superficial, nostalgic view of Star Wars being the driving force behind the sequels.

 

I'd find it really amusing if they played him as that dumb. Actually believing Palpatine could somehow make a "union" happen out of thin air and with no leverage whatsoever? There is being a darksider and there is having the intellectual capacity of an avocado. Kylo clearly seems to fall into the latter category.

 

Viewing STAR WARS like intricately detailed and plotted out lore like Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings is DEFINITELY a you problem. If that’s what you’re looking for you got the wrong franchise.


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I definitely view Star Wars as "a movie franchise that you can add stuff to as you see fit." It's less a mythology on its own to me than it is a contemporaneous vessel for mythological themes and archetypes, delivered by way of mass entertainment. It's why I'm less interested in exploring the "Old Republic" history in a future trilogy/saga than I am in just pushing ahead a few hundred years after the ST; one is by nature going to be interested in fleshing out the "lore," the other is simply what happens next to a new set of characters.

In respect to how that applies to the ST, it's why I'm not necessarily precious about any of the elements of the series that are supposedly set in stone. I don't believe the rules of the universe, per se, are immovable pillars. I think they're best as suggestions rather hard rules, and shouldn't get in the way of an impulse to tell a story that bends them to suit its needs. It's the same for the larger lore, in that fleshing it out too much creates a fictional universe that feels too esoteric and insular, which I think would run the risk of ostracizing a not insignificant percentage of the audience. That's more than a problem for Disney's bottom line on these movies, it completely flies in the face of how casual and accessible Star Wars films have always been. Even Lucas just said "Eh, **** it" when a detail got in the way of the story he wanted to tell, or the things he wanted to show.

 

Depending on how it's left in episode 9:

I think they might go back to the far past, to set something up for the far future...

The Skywalker Saga acting as a 'pit stop'...

 

1. It’s Darth Sidious. His success at making the impossible possible and knowledge of the dark side was unprecedented so on a certain level Kylo Ren probably does think that if anyone can do it and turn her it’s him.

2. The quicker and easier seductive path has blinded him here more than usual and the idea of an arranged union with Rey excites him so that he is probably even more caught up in the dark dream of that possibility, clouding his already questionable judgment and indulging his impulsive tendencies more.

3. He knows how much Rey has been searching for family and purpose and answers so he probably sees a path where this could be possible.

Dark side wishes are always too good to be true. Stopping certain death was also completely insane for Anakin to believe logical but Sidious is metaphorically this myth’s devil.

He tells these guys with dark side issues exactly what they want. He screwed up with Luke though. Didn’t play up the family angle of finally being with his family and tried mostly to get him angry. A mistake in dark side luring that I suspect he may approach differently with his granddaughter. Though perhaps not. Perhaps he also just wants to bring her to the dark side through rage in the end.

It will be interesting to see how that’s crafted. I love this kind of stuff. This is where Star Wars feels especially fairy tale-like to me. I see this element as a key ingredient to each trilogy in the saga so I’m liking what I’m hearing so far.

 

Kylo is hot.

 

It'd be one thing to move pillars. It's another to ignore that they exist in the first place.

Same thing again. It's one thing to bend but another to break.

Well Lucas didn't do that anyway in that specific way but did give the pillars talked about which were the mythological broadstrokes.

A detail? Sure. A pillar is not a detail. That is only a detail. As the creator he can do what he wants. As people who are supposedly telling a third trilogy in what they are purportedly making a sequel then it's on them to adhere to those movies. Later on they can do something else but for right now they have to connect to the other 6 movies. That they decided not to is on them and that is what they have to be measured by. Especially since he did give them a plan to start to work from.

Of the many, many failures of this trilogy the ones that matter the most are Rey, Ren, Luke and Snoke. There is so much else to talk about from state of the galaxy, world building, imagination of design, tying into the lore and so on but even setting all those very important aspects aside for a moment that all pales in comparison to the central figures just all being nonsensical in character and decision making.

After two movies of nonsensical behavior it's very likely that is going to happen again. Why anything that happens to them is going to mean anything I don't know. Why would Ren believe anything Sidious says? Why would pure Rey care at all?

That was always going to be the stumbling block from the get go because Star Wars is the movie answer to Tolkien's LOTR. From the mind of one creator where everything flows from that vision to others where it's just a movie. For Lucas they weren't just movie vehicles to make money. Making money was the result but not the be-all end all goal. That he was able to do both is what was so special.

I'd say exactly the right franchise. We see the difference between what Lucas did with 6 movies compared to the utter confusion from movie to movie from other people.

 

My god- if this rumor is true, be prepared to see this movie getting the same reaction the GoT finale got.

I’ll be honest, somehow I keep thinking that the people at LFL aren’t stupid enough, but they keep setting the bar even lower each time.

Does anyone know what MSW’s record was with TLJ? He was spot on with TFA but apparently was way off the mark with 8.

 

Game of Thrones merely adopted nerdy fan entitlement and backlash rage. Entire generations, from the Special Edition backlash to present day, have been born into it, moulded by it. Some didn’t see the light until they were already adults. By then it was blinding. Fan backlashes betray Game of Thrones because they belong to Star Wars.

 

I can already tell that no matter whether or not I like or dislike this film the discourse after this film is gonna be insufferable and make the GoT discourse look like a kiddy fight.

 

Can someone summarize?

I’ve been away the past few days.

 

Jedi Praxis of Star Wars Reddit leaks essentially gave a massive spoiler dump which has ben quasi-confirmed by MSW and other Star Wars leakers/spoilers out there.

Reaction has been as usual mixed.