ST The New Definitely Not Improved Even More Horrible Than The Last Two Rumors Thread

Some big Mandalorian spoilers on Star Wars Leaks this morning. If you had intended to watch tonight after work and don’t want to be spoiled discretion there is advised. Images and titles could give away key plot details.

 

Too late

 

Same. I’m not going to go back there today since I expect there will be more there as more people notice things. I’m intending to watch right after work and had purposefully not read up too much on the series so am a little annoyed that I spoiled a surprise I could have experienced the good ol fashioned way in real time only 8 hours from now had I not gone there. I want to see what it’s like to go into something more fresh again.

 

TROS takes place a year after TLJ with the FO essentially ruling the galaxy with Kylo as the Supreme Leader. Rey is training under Leia but she's having trouble with the more spiritual aspects of the Force. Both the FO and Resistance get wind of some device called a "Wayfinder" that can lead to a weapons cache so they both go after it, this forms the bulk of the movie, specifically the first two-thirds. Kylo somehow stumbles upon Palpatine, who is alive but appears to be hooked up to some sort of mechanical life-support device. Palpatine gives little to no explanation for how he survived the events of ROTJ but convinces Kylo to serve him in exchange for Rey becoming his partner. The rest of the movie is Rey and the Resistance fleeing from location to location with Kylo and the FO in hot pursuit with 2-3 duels occurring during this period with Rey either winning or stale mating Kylo in each of them. Eventually Leia dies with both Rey and Kylo feeling it, but Rey recovers first from the shock and stabs Kylo in the chest.

Rey then heals Kylo using the Force and leaves to exile herself on Ach-To, fearing the Dark Side within her. Luke as a Force Ghost convinces Rey to get back in the fight. Kylo turns to the Light after seeing a vision/ghost of Han. Rey goes to confront Palpatine and is joined by Kylo. Palps electrocutes Kylo and throws him down a bottomless pit, and that's the last we see of Kylo. Rey blocks Palpatine's lightning with Luke and Leia's sabers and then with the help of Force Ghosts, redirects it back at him, killing him.

The movie ends with Rey, Finn, and Poe on Tatooine with someone asking Rey her name. She says "Rey Skywalker". Oh, Rey is revealed to be Palpatine's granddaughter around the halfway point of the movie, retconning one of the more unique aspects of TLJ.

My personal thoughts: It sounds awful and confirms that the ST has no narrative or emotional reason to exist. Palpatine is dead, again. The Empire/FO is dead, again. Rey continues to be invincible and adopts the Skywalker name even though her relationship with Luke was terrible.

 

Okay, I just finished reading your post and after a minute of processing it, I gotta say: this is horrible.

I'm sorry if anyone enjoys this film when it's released, but in my personal opinion, I can't help but dislike what I'm reading.

Maybe it'll be better than what it reads on paper. Maybe it'll be better than my expectations now. Maybe it'll even be well-shot and visually stunning. But I'm almost certain (and I'm trying to give the benefit of doubt to this movie) that I'll end up disliking this movie by the end of it.

 

That's pretty much the general consensus.

 

Thanks for the summary - it reads even worse all pulled together like that....

 

For the first time I’ve finally read the leaks. Here’s what I think, assuming these are true.


First and foremost, I notice there’s no Anakin anywhere, not even in the climax. Yes, it is possible, though not likely, that he is one of the ghosts on Tatooine, but I’m not sure which is worse: having Hayden come back but have no role in the story, or not have him back at all.

I would assume the same is true with Obi-Wan, although we are getting Ewan back in the upcoming series.

Aside from that, I hope against all odds that Rey doesn’t grieve for Kylo when Palpatine kills him. Even at that point, Kylo hasn’t done anything throughout the film to warrant Rey mourning for him. Up until she healed him on the Death Star remains, he kept trying to find her and her friends and capture her, while revealing that he did indeed lie about her parents, or at least he didn’t tell the full truth.
I am also confused, though not surprised, by the fact that Rey exiles herself to Ahch To out of guilt for almost killing her enemy. I can’t see Luke (not Jake Skywalker in TLJ) doing that if he had struck down Palpatine on the Death Star in ROTJ. Why would she do that just because of Kylo, and why would she save his life?

I get that striking down unprepared opponents has been an issue for Star Wars protagonists since the OT, continuing into the PT, but it definitely doesn’t warrant Rey abruptly leaving her friends from the Resistance, not in my opinion.

With Luke, I guess the best is done with him as possible given what happened in TLJ. A lot of the leaked plot of TROS, including ghost Luke’s role, would be more impactful if he had lived and not been dragged through the mud by the narrative.

If the rumors of Rey being a Palpatine are true, then Kylo is Anakin and Luke’s final legacy, and that’s a bad thing, even after he supposedly decides to abandon his dark persona. If she’s not a blood relative, then Rey probably doesn’t deserve the mantle, given the way she wrote off Luke in TLJ without really making amends.

I’m not partial to her character, but I notice Rose isn’t really in the narrative. Maybe she’s put into the background?

I wonder how a deathbed scene with Leia is possible if Carrie Fisher presumably never filmed it. Maybe she has no final dialogue, not sure.


Looks like the Knights of Ren are going to be background thugs along the same lines as the Praetorian Guards. At this point, that’s probably a smart move given all else the movie takes upon itself to cover.

Something else: It’s one thing to have Palpatine come back from the dead, or maintain consciousness after death through dark power.
But to make it where he never died in the first place? That feels like a cheap way of undoing the finality of ROTJ and transferring it to TROS.

 

*sigh* Had you actually read my post carefully, you would have noted that I actually defended your right to your opinion. Your opinion offends me not at all. What is objectionable--as I specifically articulated--is the deliberately inflammatory rhetoric employed. It promotes no useful discussion and only serves to upset others. And that's all I have to say about that.

 

I’m hoping Rey at least gives a “Nooo!” when he’s killed. Or something. I suspect an acknowledgement of some kind will happen and not the shoulder shrug and “Thanks, Grandpa!” that some here may want.

 

In terms of the Doomcock discussion, has this youtuber ever accurately leaked anything? The only thing I’m aware of is he said they reshot 75% of the film, which every other leaker that actually got stuff correct refutes. I guess I don’t understand why or how Doomcock became someone that people treat with credibility prior to actually getting anything right. Or am I missing something he did?

 

Yeah it does seem convenient that Geeks and Gamers and a bunch of other youtubers believe him at his word, because it is what they want to hear.

But someone more informed than me should answer this.

 

Zero credibility. He claims insiders email him stuff and that he corroborates independently with other emails. I think his “sources” are just messing with him in the home stretch to TROS.

G+G just made a video trying to argue that Jason Ward and Doomcock are of equal credibility and that he doesn’t know who to believe. I really need to stop giving them views but I find this stuff hilarious.

“Aw, gee, y’know this guy who’s been reliably leaking Star Wars for the last 5 years with the occasional bad intel or my friend with no history other than peddling anger who I want to promote so I can grow his subscriber base. I don’t know who’s right!”

 

Imo we are missing a lot of stuff though.

If not, on viewing the film I will admit JJ is a hack.

He claimed to be tying everything up, so we will see.

 

Geeks and Gamers also thought that Captain Marvel was going to flop and it went on to make $1.1 billion, so the man has zero credibility for me. I listen to Midnight's Edge because he seems to present things in a much more levelheaded way but he also used Doomcock as a source. So...yeah. What's Jason Ward saying?

 

He stated his sources told him that there were none of the claimed test screenings.

I don't know what else he had to say on it.

 

Which, despite your denial, insinuates you are offended by my opinion. In the end, I'll express my thoughts freely and whether or not you find my opinions "useful" or "inflammatory" doesn't really matter to me at all. To me, they are valid and very relevant to this thread, Star Wars, the ST, etc. I'm a lifelong fan of this franchise and if I think the current people in charge of the franchise are taking it in the wrong direction or are otherwise making a mess of things, you can bet that I'll be expressing that opinion. You certainly don't have to agree but that doesn't make your opinion any more relevant or important than mine.

I completely agree. That's part of what I was hoping for in the ST. Yoda telling Luke to pass on what he had learned should have been the stepping stone to show us a better Jedi Order with Luke at the head, along with bunch of new Jedi that could have been the new heroes for future movies, facing a new threat that could have been unique and ruthless.

Instead we got Luke being a defeatist grouch, Han being a deadbeat Dad, Leia never really becoming a true Jedi, Rey being a completely unrelatable character that didn't earn the power and strength she constantly portrays, and Ben/Kylo becoming a total loser that is neither a good hero nor a decent villain. And now, according to rumors, we get to have the Emperor back, only to finally be defeated by Rey, thus trivializing Anakin and Luke's story altogether.

So yeah, IMO the ST is nothing more than a HUGE missed opportunity and is, frankly, insulting to many fans of the OT and PT. TFA had potential with Snoke and the possibility of Luke actually meaning something to the story but TLJ ruined all of that with rumors indicating TROS not really fixing anything at all. Time will tell on TROS but so far it's not sounding like it will be the movie fans have been waiting for.

 

Also, no way has 75% of the movie been reshot, that doesn't make sense. I can see the whole showdown with Palpatine perhaps being reshot to make it less wonky, but even then. When was the latest verifiable date that reshoots were confirmed to have ended?

 

When you read it on paper, it just shows the ST had no purpose other to serve as a way for Disney to quickly recoup their money by using the OT characters. The trilogy ends essentially exactly where the ROTJ ended but with different characters. This would be the equivalent of Marvel bring back all their old characters (including Iron Man and Black Widow somehow) for the next generation of MCU movies only to kill them off one by one in order at the end to defeat...........Thanos again. Just is as uninspiring as you can get especially there is no deposition into this. Again had the Knights of Ren/FO had been totally cult like in their love of the Empire and were trying to secretly bring back the Emperor in the fresh (like Lha V in Harry Potter), I don't think it would been as inspiring story as they could have told but would been a lot better then we got.

And I been down on TROS in terms of a movie personally for a long time even before the leaks started (box office is a bit different as I am still sort of bullish about it) but Doomcock is full of it. They don't do test screenings the way he describe it. There is only test screenings for Disney and Lucasfilm personnel to give their input. Now I heard one YouTuber (forget who) speculate that the growing schism between Disney brass and Lucasfilm executives are at a breaking point over TROS. Now that I could believe has being plausible at this point. Disney is reading the GOT Season 8 push back to the spoilers for weeks and weeks now. They have to be worried at this point considering the fallout of TLJ and how Solo just bombed at the theater. Yes, End Game got some major push back on Reddit after the world premiere and the story including leak online but keep in mind:

1. That was the Tuesday before Preview Thursday therefore it was a matter of around 48 hours of angst that was contained mostly on Reddit. It didn't even wind up on YouTube. This has been going on for what? Well over a month now even longer.
2. The push back was drowned out by the strong reviews End Game got and then WOM from the first audience viewings. TROS is just beaten to a bloody pulp with nobody to stop it right now.

So while I think a lot of what Doomcock/other YT are saying is just click bait knowing the swirl around TROS right now among the fans is like GOT Season 8 spoilers so they are just going with the tide and throwing more gasoline on the fire, I do think there is growing worry among Disney executives and if this clanks (relatively speaking), I do think a massive shakeup at Lucasfilm is a definite. Then again I think it's coming anyway.

 

I would pay good money to see Jason Ward and Doomcock battle in a steel cage match.

 

The fact of the matter is I have no way of knowing how accurate Doomcock is but IMO it doesn't really even matter. What I do know is that, IMO, the ST is a mess and the things Doomcock claim wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Maybe he is making it all up but then again, maybe he isn't. I just don't know and frankly none of us may never truly know what's been going on behind the scenes with TROS.

One thought that also just came to my mind is I can never recall Anthony Daniels ever saying anything but super positive things about Star Wars...until now. That alone should be enough to make all fans worried.

Oh, BTW, The Mandalorian is AWESOME! Why couldn't the ST have been quality like this?

I could be wrong but I don't recall G&G saying CM would flop. They certainly weren't encouraging people to spend money on it but I don't recall any predictions being made of it failing in the BO. Please correct me if I'm wrong though.

And about Doomcock, maybe, just maybe, he's got more credibility than his detractors realize? Time will soon tell when TROS hits theaters next month.

 

"Secret Skywalker" is Mike Zeroh-tier nonsense.

Doomcock's whole thing is straw-manning. "Oh, this is just a rumor... but my sources tell me George Lucas came in and added a secret Skywalker to save the film. Now, it's just a rumor but (spends the next 15 minutes ranting about how ridiculous it is to add a 'Secret Skywalker' even though there's no real proof it exists). We, the fans, aren't so stupid, Disney!"

Now, look, I'm not optimistic about TROS. I think the JediPaxis spoilers are basically what we'll get minus some details we don't have, and possibly some playing with force ghosts in post, but if there were really test screenings with average moviegoers broken up into different groups, we'd have multiple sources for leaks right now. You can't keep a lid on that many people with so many outlets to spill the beans to.

The only people who have seen it are connected to the production in some way, either by family (like, Frank Marshall has probably seen it) or are actually working on it.

 

Here are some of the things I really like about the IX leaks conceptually:

• Episode IX explores the promise ROTJ left off with of Leia’s eventual Jedi path.

• Finds connective bridge topic approaches to developments of VII & VIII via IX. Better forms a more cohesive trilogy than what even I thought possible.
• It explores the value of the OT tale that matters so dearly to all of us as fans and suggests that in-universe the Skywalkers and their crazy adventures also inspired new generations. It suggests the tale was so powerful that it even helped play a small part in the grandaughter of Darth Sidious not following in his footsteps and finding them. It shows how Sidious himself took the events of ROTJ. He corrupts the family messaging of ROTJ into something he can use for power.

• IX’s emphasis on Palpatine better connects this era to the past of Star Wars.

• Lando having family that connects into Finn somehow possibly.

• Finn and Rey possibly being implied as having a chance at a relationship by the end.
  
  
• Finn saving kids from going through what he went through.
  
  
• Poe having a sexy bounty hunter love interest in his past who re-enters his life.

• It bookends the PT which came out after ROTJ and built him up more, making his end in ROTJ slightly anti-climatic after spending more time with him in the PT. It does that without negatively impacting the most interesting aspects of the nature vs nurture cats & the cradle Anakin & Luke tale that I feel VIII enriched further with depth.

• It’s also the light side reverse of what he did to Anakin in a way. Sidious united with Anakin on the Dark Side. Anakin changed his name. The Skywalkers unite with his last of kin on the light. Rey changes her name.

• It delivers a longer redemptive arc in theory for Ben Solo than what we saw from Vader and shows Ben having more time before his end to try and help.

• It explores the power of love to overcome evil in a different way as he moves from being insanely self-centered and manipulative to becoming selfless and inspiring.

• It better explains the mystery of her power.

• It better explains how she seemed to showcase more dark side issues than Luke. It gets into the destiny vs free will aspects of Star Wars and nature versus nurture by showing how the grandchildren of Darth Sidious and Darth Vader found and impacted each other.

• It gets into concepts of inherited guilt from the descendants of awful people who’ve done awful things and reminds that it was really someone with the last name Palpatine who was Vader’s boss all along and did the vast majority of evil scheming that impacted this, mad many families, for generations and shows Rey looking to counter balance his impact on both.

• It gets into her missing parents in a fascinating way that bette explains the ship leaving.

• It adds new layers and risk to her as a character and gives her some personal issues to work through related to family and murder.

• It implies the way that Rey handed they saber off to each of Luke, Ben & Leia better connected each of them back to the Jedi mindset from where they were prior to meeting her and doing that.

• It features brand new mini antagonists that seem as cool as any seem in Star Wars before in the Knights of Ren & the Sith troopers.

• It shows an enormous space battle and at least 3 scenes involving sabers and skilled combatants.

• It honors Leia as a character taking on a Jedi mentor role she never expected to be in miraculously despite Fisher’s passing.

• It shows the twins together forever in the end.

• It revisits Ahch-To to pay off the ideas explored in new ways from Rey’s perspective and shows her and Luke working together and Luke’s renewed peace and purpose. He lifts up the X-Wing and catches the saber she throws away.

• It features Indiana Jones style relic hunts early into its tale and more dark side exploration of its protagonist than what we had with Luke; though not as much as Anakin.

• It turns Sidious into someone even scarier and creepier and closer to the embodiment of evil itself. It gives it a Stephen King IT vibe with him being back 30 years later.

• Best of all... we are missing a lot of the how on this so there could be more force ghost interactions and more Anakin involvement at the end and more execution detail that helps elevate many of these concepts further.