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Fanclub <=*=> The New Sith Order =*= Return of the Sith <=*=>... v.5

Discussion in 'EU Community' started by Teegirloo, Sep 3, 2012.

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  1. Darth Dreadwar

    Darth Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jan 26, 2010
    While it is good that there is some new discussion here, there is far too little in the way of NSO business and activity. Our Order is floundering, and whereas the upcoming holofilm is drawing many new seekers of knowledge to the Boards, we Sith are not capitalising on it. Our recruitment efforts are pitiful.

    I fear it is because we have too many veteran members and too little new blood. The naive, raw ambition of youth often makes for some of the most passionate efforts of expansion. It is that same untamed hunger for power that drove me to forge an Ancient Sith Empire from naught years ago, but now I find myself weary and no longer so willing to dedicate such time and effort to enveloping newcomers into the fold. I find that as I peruse the old incarnations of this Order, there is so much passion, so much desire, so much time and effort devoted to training and recruitment. There was a spark that is gone now, a spark that no amount of regime changes seems to have ignited. It is down to each and every one of us Sith to put real effort into expanding our Order, and bring aboard many a new Sith, otherwise as more and more of us fall prey to DRL or lose interest, we will find that we leave behind no legacy, no heirs to inherit the mantle of Lords of the Sith. I certainly find myself lacking an apprentice.

    Mikaboshi Sinrebirth Teegirloo aalagartassle dragonsith13 Evil Incarnate darthhelinith Darth-Vassago I call to you through the dark side of the Force. I have doubtless missed many. I call to the living and dead, the new and the old, founders, Lords, Acolytes of Darkness... I call so that we may convene and discuss the slow[​IMG] death of the Sith, and how we might prevent us from falling into an obscurity beyond the Obscurum. The Acolytes thread is practically dead - the last page has posts from six months ago. Should one be entirely folded into the other? What should we do to renew the interests of long-time members? I feel like we need a structure by which those of us who can make the commitment will dedicate themselves to recruiting and training new members so we can grow our Order to pre-2010 levels.

    Perhaps an RPG? I fear The Shadow War was too ambitious, attempting to incorporate every fan club and interest, and now it is a game[​IMG] for the GoL alone. What about a game smaller in scope? Nothing too dependent upon a galaxy-impacting plot with a thousand threads requiring intense GM involvement and long-term commitment from players, just a small game centred around a Sith academy, perhaps, harking back to the days before the Dominion of Darkness? I've been wanting to run a game set in the ABYVerse for a while now. Or perhaps we're tired[​IMG] of playing the same characters, in the same sandbox. What about something different, like something set on Onderon during the reign of Freedon Nadd? Anyone interested?

    darklordoftech Meyerm Your participation[​IMG] in discussions here has highlighted your scholarly knowledge of the Sith, and it has been a great pleasure to discuss my favourite topics of ancient Sith history with you. Do you desire to officially join the New Sith Order? Your ascendance to power within this organisation is inevitable if you should accept, for as the great Lord Andeddu said, Knowledge is power.

    What say you?
     
  2. Meyerm

    Meyerm Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 17, 2014
    It is my honor to accept this invitation.
     
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  3. E. L.Knight

    E. L.Knight Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 4, 2012
    Well, I must say, this place has grown slightly dusty, has it not?
     
  4. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Invitation accepted, Lord DreadWar.

    Anyway, is there anyone other than Ragnos who you think could be the Dark Lord who marked Kun and Ulic and said "He is ready, Nadd"?
     
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  5. E. L.Knight

    E. L.Knight Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 4, 2012
    I think it was Ragnos that marked Exar Kun and Ulic Qel Droma. Though, In KOTOR 2 you go to Freedon Naad's Tomb and Exar Kun is rumored to have visited as well.
     
  6. Evil Incarnate

    Evil Incarnate Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Aug 18, 2003
    I've talked about a small RPG with some of the others, though nothing has come of it since none of us really have the time to actually run it. Speaking for myself, my free time fluctuates greatly from week to week. As for the RPG, I was thinking something along the lines of a small order of Sith Assassins and Spies in service of the Emperor. It would allow us to play in small episodic bursts as well as having a larger over-arching plot.

    Evil.
     
  7. E. L.Knight

    E. L.Knight Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 4, 2012
    I'm a veteran of the Roleplaying community. My first stint here at the boards, from 2005-2010, i played in the RPF daily.

    I like the idea of a small group working for the Emperor, but I think making it specifically for just Assassins narrows it down too much. Maybe play it the way Sidious had his Hands, or the Inquisition and the Inquisitors.
     
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  8. Darth Dreadwar

    Darth Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jan 26, 2010
    Meyerm darklordoftech It is an honour to have you on board. From henceforth, your destiny is one with the dominion of darkness, and the truth of you, now and forever more, is Sith. Ordinarily new members would be Peons, but having both satisfied the month of active posting here that is necessary, you have both more than earned greater title.

    [face_skull]

    As you both stand in the shadows of the great mausoleum on the hellfire moon of Daritha, a shadow bleeds from the gaping maw of the dark structure, coalescing into a form of human aspect but greater, terrible and cold. The Dark Lord of the ancient Sith, Darth Dreadwar, gestures with a sneer toward three twisted, gnarled trees scrabbling for the scant air and light in this suffocating world like skeletal hands reaching from the ashen earth.

    "Behold, the three trees of the Sith," Dreadwar rasps. "On the far left, by the crypts of Cruor, nourished by the dust of our fallen acolytes, is the Tree of Knowledge. Choose this tree, and be elevated in the eyes of the Sith Lords, to claim the title and position of Sith Sorcerer. Beyond this tree lie many forking paths, paths of prophecy, magic, alchemy and inquisition, that all ultimately reunite at the destination: utter arcane mastery."

    Dreadwar's crowned head swivels. "Behind me, attend your eyes! born of the abyss of the arena, where the blood of hopefuls wash pure the dead stone. It is the Tree of Power. Eat of its fruit and become a Sith Warrior. The paths of the marauder and the juggernaut are open to you, culminating in your ascendancy as Battelord."

    "Finally, peer into the gloom if you dare, and look upon the Tree of Darkness. Exiled into the shadows are those heretics amongst us, but sent too into the Night's embrace are those that hunt them, the Sith Assasins. Into the mists, they track their quarry down the paths of the stalker, the eraser and the hand. At paths' end lie the ultimate quarry: the accursed Jedi themselves."

    Meyerm, Darklordoftech, choose wisely, and then be elevated, my friends. To attain Sith Lordship, you must undergo a training process with an assigned Master, and pass several trials. I should expect the process to take no more than one standard month.

    I am currently without an apprentice. If any should desire my aid to set them on the path to Mastery, know that as High Magister the trials I prefer are scholarly, most appropriate for those who count themselves sorcerers among Sith.

    Evil Incarnate I quite like keeping RPGs to the ABYVerse as they allow NSO history to unfold in parallel with development of this thread's happenings. But I am intrigued by something set in the era of Vader and his Emperor. darthhelinith would approve, I believe.

    E. L.Knight I know of your standing as the mighty Darth Hades of the Acolytes, but I confess I am unaware of your standing in the NSO. What kind of time commitment do you think you could make in the RPF? What preference would you have for an RPG? It'd be brilliant to have an RPF veteran on board.

    Well, the mummified remains appear to be human, and the figure in the amulet appears to be human or perhaps Arkanian (or Sephi?). Empire's End implies those that sleep in the Great Temple (I use the term 'sleep' deliberately) are immortal Dark Jedi Exiles as well.

    I've always been fond of the idea of those comprising the 'Darth cult', a sort of shadow council who are the real power behind the Old Sith, surfacing and assuming the mantle of mundane responsibility (of Dark Lord of the Sith) only when necessary, e.g. during the reign of Darth Andeddu, or after the Great Hyperspace War. The Lord in question could be one of them, perhaps Andeddu.

    Other contenders are Shar Dakhan, and Vitiate himself.
     
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  9. E. L.Knight

    E. L.Knight Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 4, 2012
    I can give just about as much time as you want. I am at the computer nearly all day everyday.

    My Standing in the NSO was as a Sith Lord, but I left a long time ago. I believe it was two threads ago. Difference of opinion with the then current Dark Lord. I seek no favors, though. I can start as a Peon and work my way back up.
     
  10. Darth Dreadwar

    Darth Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jan 26, 2010
    Excellent! A great inferno starts with the smallest spark...

    *waves hand* Nonsense, Hades. No Sith who has born the title Lord should suffer the ignobility of Peonage again. You are free to rise to the rank of Sith Sorcerer, Sith Warrior or Sith Assassin, as you may wish. I extend the same offer of apprenticeship to hasten your ascendance, if you are inclined to scholarly pursuits.
     
  11. E. L.Knight

    E. L.Knight Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 4, 2012
    I'm a warrior. I remember my abilities when I was a Lord in the past. The Force and my Lightsabers were my weapons.

    I do enjoy the scholarly side of things as well, though. Knowledge is Power.
     
  12. Darth Dreadwar

    Darth Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jan 26, 2010
    A mighty Sith you are, E. L.Knight Very well. We are in need of at least two Masters, then.
     
  13. E. L.Knight

    E. L.Knight Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 4, 2012
    I await patiently to see who shall train me.
     
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  14. Meyerm

    Meyerm Jedi Padawan star 2

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    Aug 17, 2014
    I choose the path of Assassin.


    But be aware that I have other priorities and my log-ins are sporadic at best. I try to check up at least once every other day or so.
     
  15. Darth Dreadwar

    Darth Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jan 26, 2010
    Excellent, Meyerm. Excellent. And worry not. In these times of sloth, every other day is more than sufficient.
    You shall be assigned a Master in time, and then your trials may begin.
     
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  16. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    I have wondered about Soa's red skin. Were the Sith a product of his experiments?
     
  17. Darth Dreadwar

    Darth Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jan 26, 2010
    I prefer to think of it as the other way around.

    I'm always fond of believing the Sith were the true rulers and founders of the Infinite Empire, paralleling the Dark Jedi who would become Lords of the Sith - "Dark Lords of the Rakata" sort of thing. Sure, the Dantooine droid is evidence against, but his cluelessness is highlighted through his ignorance of humanity as a slave race, and besides, the Sith would have been gods not mundane rulers, with the Rakata being their Builders. Sith dark side mastery predates the Rakata by ~50,000 years, and as per TOTJ Companion they were spreading across the galaxy, gaining notoriety to the degree the term Sith was even becoming associated with other dark side users (the Rakata?) long before the Dark Jedi came along. In light of changing the Schism of the Exiles and retconning Adas, these 'circles' of Sith sorcerers spreading misery throughout the galaxy is clearly pre-Adas, meshing with things like the 100,000 year old holocron. Interestingly, this would offer a new, more interesting interpretation of the Black Rakata speaking of 'red demons' in their ancient past in KOTOR - probably meant to be the Elders.

    Soa is merely a Sithspawn Rakata, crossbred with Massassi blood and mutated to great stature. In my interpretation, the Rakatan invasion of Korriban is merely interfactional warfare following the True Sith's defeat at the end of the Celestial War, with some remaining aligned with the Sith (such as Soa, the Infernal Council, or indeed the Sith of Cron that would culminate in Darth/Daritha Xim, and others who made their own powergrab. Of course, since the Rakata were not remotely as strong as the immortal gods of the Sith (Darths) that had ruled them, they couldn't control the Star Forge and fell prey to its manipulations, and were appropriately punished for their betrayal with a Sith engineered plague. Thus ended the glory of the True Sith and their Builders, with mere remnants scattered around Korriban, Ziost, Krayiss, Malachor, Arkania, Tund, Rhand, Kathol, Alsakan and the Tion cluster.
     
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  18. E. L.Knight

    E. L.Knight Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 4, 2012
    There is a great deal of Sith info here that I have no idea about. I've been out of the loop a long time.
     
  19. Meyerm

    Meyerm Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 17, 2014
    To bring back the topic of body hopping, possessions, and the like being known by many powerful sith lords of antiquity, one thing still confuses me. It is claimed that lords like Marka Ragnos knew how to do this. If this is the case, why did Ragnos pass away uneventfully? I wouldn't imagine any sith lord with access to a means to achieve immortality would not take advantage unless someone else stopped them.
     
  20. E. L.Knight

    E. L.Knight Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 4, 2012
    It takes a great deal of power to transfer ones self to another body, even more so if that body is alive and occupied by another already. I think, though the Sith were at their height, they had indeed stretched the Force too thin among them and the power just wasn't there.
     
  21. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Just because you can get a body doesn't mean that you need one. The spirits in Empire's End advise Sidious to join them instead of looking for a body.
     
  22. E. L.Knight

    E. L.Knight Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 4, 2012
    I've not read Empire's End. May need to look into that one.
     
  23. Darth Dreadwar

    Darth Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Well, while The Old Republic has added some new persuasive content, most of these ideas actually come from old Gamer articles and Tales of the Jedi Companion. KOTOR II introduced the "True Sith" hiding in the Unknown Regions which were presented as this great old evil worthy of Cthulhu the likes of which we've never seen before who had manipulated the Old Sith Wars (Mandalorian Wars) as part of their plan to destroy all life in the galaxy. If you've played Mass Effect, then saying the True Sith were like the Reapers would be an apt analogy.

    This, of course, prompted Lit fans to go wild, throwing out some crazy ideas like the "True Sith are the Yuuzhan Vong," but most took the term at face value and accepted that the term "True Sith" is obviously used by Kreia to mean the Sith species. What was interesting, however, is that certain in game outposts of the True Sith, like the Trayus Academy on Malachor V, predated the Sith Empire that the Dark Jedi Exiles formed by thousands of years. This didn't seem to gel with the Sith species being primitive barbarians isolated on Korriban that the Dark Jedi subjugated, but the truth is that latter interpretation of the Sith species was really the one that didn't gel with the very earliest works on the Sith - the Tales of the Jedi Companion has the Sith species spreading throughout the galaxy and becoming a notorious evil the name of which other dark siders took long before the Dark Jedi, and long before the Republic ever existed. In fact, there's numerous implications in the original TOTJ comics that the Sith had ruled the galaxy in those ancient days.

    Suddenly, the "True Sith Empire" retcon seemed to make sense. There's Krayiss II, where Sith spirits inhabited a library-temple that predated the Dark Jedi by 7,000 years. There's a Sith spirit on Onderon that far predates Nadd's arrival there. There's a Killik Sith Lord who was 30,000 years old, who even predates Adas. So an idea took shape, that the True Sith had once held galactic power, and were probably the rulers of the Infinite Empire introduced in the original KOTOR, with the Rakata building dark side artifacts like the Star Forge for them, long before humans even knew how to travel in hyperspace, long before the Jedi or Republic existed. Of course, in this pre-Republic Era there's also the immensely powerful and mysterious Celestials who disappeared around the same time, so the idea was that the True Sith and the Celestials had a great war. And things like the Killik Sith Lord suddenly made sense. The Killiks were a servitor race of the Celestials who they used to build things like Centerpoint Station, but we know the Celestials turned against them and emptied them from Alderaan. So it was speculated there was a Sith Lord that became a Killik Joiner, and thus (because he was a Force user) was able to turn them into a vast army for the True Sith and turn the tide against the Celestials, until they managed to separate his influence from them by driving him from Alsakan to Sarafur, and the Killiks into the Unknown Regions.

    TOR since interpreted the True Sith to be remnants from the Great Hyperspace War, which was thoroughly underwhelming, but that doesn't change the fact that there's still a great and powerful Sith Empire existing in the pre-Republic era, and TOR has in fact furthered the interpretation that the True Sith were part of (and perhaps rulers of) the Infinite Empire through including an Infernal Council of powerful Sith who were aligned with the Rakata called Soa, who himself ruled from Korriban. For those of us who like history all neatly connected, things like the Pius Dea, Xim the Despot and Alsakan Conflicts can be interpreted to be Sith connected as well, and this interpretation has been strengthened recently by Xim being retconned as Daritha (the forebear to the Darth title).

    Well, he reigned as Dark Lord for a century so may well have lived for hundreds of years. Furthermore, he hardly passed away; he remained as a Sith spirit with great influence over the physical world for thousands of years.
    Ultimately, haunting their tombs seems to be a rather safe and permanent form of immortality that the ancient Sith clearly preferred. Empire's End has the Dark Lords even encourage Palpatine to join them in the 'darkness beyond all dying.' Why wouldn't an ancient Sith embrace this role? It allows them to ensure the survival of the Sith and recreate their Orders or Empires, guiding events beyond the grave. It's not as if they're not influencing the galaxy; the efforts of Nadd and Ragnos are what's solely responsible for reviving the Sith and instigating the Great Sith War, XoXaan trained Krayt and thus created the One Sith and Palpatine wouldn't have returned in a clone body to almost destroy the New Republic without the Sith Lords restoring him to life. They're sort of beyond the games of mortals - they have no interest in actually running out there with a flashy lightsaber killing Jedi. They've accomplished what they wanted, and only feel like interfering in an emergency (like the potential death of the Sith Order).

    I don't buy it. Darth Bane is just wrong as a point of fact. I can forgive him for his error, since the Sith of his day genuinely were weak, but he attributed it to dodgy metaphysics rather than the actuality of lost knowledge through the Dark Age and the Jedi's destruction of Sith knowledge after the GHW. There's just nothing in the saga to suggest that the Force is so lowly in nature that it can actually be stretched thin by a few mortal beings, and indeed, the Banite Order is forever scrabbling for the lost secrets of the Sith in their heydey.

    If the Force can be stretched thin by too many Sith, how come the average Sith of the times when they were legion was so much their greater? How come the ancient Lords of the Sith had such mastery of the Force, that would never be matched until (arguably) Palpatine did all he could to recover their lost knowledge? I mean, a mere failed apprentice who settled for ruling a single planet was capable of creating planet-ravaging, fleet-annihilating Force storms, something we only see Palpatine pull off among the 'modern Sith.' A sorceress destroyed Ambria with a ritual. That's not even touching on what the Sith Lords were capable of. The immortality that all later Sith would so crave (and fail in their attempt to attain it), even Nihilus-esque Force drain, are but examples of their might.
     
  24. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    I noticed that Freedon Nadd tells Exar Kun that the Dark Lords' bodies are preserved by their powers and that Sadow could "give life to departed spirits".

    It also seems to me that spirits being confined to a location isn't what Veitch intended before KJA came along. Dark Empire never mentions Sidious needing a physical object or body to get to Byss and Nadd shows up all across the galaxy.
     
  25. Darth Dreadwar

    Darth Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 26, 2010
    I like my Sith Orders, or Empires as they may be, as neatly structured as possible. The Jedi have been fairly consistent with their Grand Master > Council > Masters > Knights > Padawans > Initiates. The Sith have had more restructuring than something that's had an awful lot of restructuring.

    However, at the same time I do like to incorporate the structures, ranks and 'skill trees' of as many different Sith organisations as possible. I also think all of the Sith organisations didn't quite have it right.

    So, some (fairly pointless) thoughts on the 'perfect' Sith structure. Firstly, the ultimate ruler of the Sith Empire is to be the Sith'ari (borrowing from the ancient Sith species). So far as I can tell, the most literal translation of this is "Perfect Lord," but I think it can be best interpreted to mean "Sith Emperor," since that's the title - in Basic - that Vitiate assumed, which is seemingly > Dark Lord. The Sith'ari should have two Shadow Hands (borrowing from the Triumvirate here - because I think triumvirates are more stable than the Banite system, as it allows a master to play rival apprentices against each other, allows for greater contingency and hey, having two hands just makes sense!) Both Shadow Hand and master should bear the title Jen'ari (borrowing from the Banites here), and also the title Darth. To me, Darth is a derivative of both darr tah (triumph over death) and Daritha (Emperor), yielding the meaning "immortal god-king" or "immortal god-emperor" or simply "immortal god" - hence Andeddu being the immortal god-king of Prakith, and the "immortal gods of the Sith." It's a title first claimed by the Sith who became the Lords of the Rakata, of course. ;)

    Beneath these three is a 10-member Sith Council of "Sith Underlords," or Ari. I prefer TOTJ's 10 to TOR's 12, and moreover, if you count all the Sith Lords in this proposed structure, you get the unlucky number 13, which is pretty neat. These are not of the Darth sect, and while some might take on new names for themselves (much as Tenebrae became Vitiate, or Shas Dovos became Warb Null), none of them have the Darth title preceding it. Unlike the Old Sith Empire, power is a more precious thing in this hierarchy, more resembling Revan or Kun's Sith, a nice middle ground between the Old Sith+One Sith and the Banites. As such, there are no Lords beneath the Council. Instead, you have Sith Sorcerers, with two 'prestige class' analogues in the form of Sith Alchemist and Sith Inquisitor, Sith Warriors, with the Sith Marauder and Sith Knight paths, and finally Sith Assassins, with the Sith Stalker and Sith Adept paths. Any within these groupings may possess other title, e.g. Sith Master or Sith Apprentice, but that hasn't got much to do with rank, but training. Then you have the Acolytes, who are the closest things to Padawans I suppose, which are the lowest within the Sith Order, with the 'Sith minion' appellation being used to describe all non-Force users within the greater Sith Empire, although an insulting one to those of high mundane rank (e.g. a military commander).

    So there you have it. My attempt to use and fuse as many different Sith philosophies, sects, traditions, titles and ranks into one Sith Empire as possible.

    Indeed. KJA established that kind of haunting in Jedi Academy and brought it into TOTJ - the Dark Lords' bodies are what's preserved in TOTJ. I've worked out a pretty self-consistent 'mechanism' for Jedi and Sith ghosting/essence transfer that accounts for such discrepancies, but that's for another post.
    And I'm pretty sure Sadow giving life to departed spirits entails 1) using alchemy to giving them a physical body and 2) summoning their spirits from Chaos, as Ommin did with Nadd. It was Sadow's alchemical apparatus that Nadd planned on having Kun use to give him a body, one assumes, and the same that Revan intended to embody Vitiate.
    One interesting aside: in DE, Palpatine did need assistance from the Dark Lords in guiding him back to life. At which death they did this is unclear, but it'd be a fair interpretation to make that the Dark Lords 'gave life to his departed spirit.' I prefer to interpret this as happening at Palpatine's death at the end of the first DE, for the sake of the significance of Luke and Leia's victory. (Not that I have any respect for this OOU argument when applied to Palpatine surviving his first death...)
     
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