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Fanclub <=*=> The New Sith Order =*= Return of the Sith <=*=>... v.5

Discussion in 'EU Community' started by Teegirloo, Sep 3, 2012.

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  1. Darth Dreadwar

    Darth Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jan 26, 2010
    *sneers and bids the new hopeful to rise* Your pledge is accepted, JarJarAbrams; from henceforth, count yourself among the Peons of the Sith.

    Welcome to the world of Daritha, woyonoks, our old mortuary world and new home here in the darkness of the Unknown Regions. I am Darth Dreadwar, Dark Lord of the Ancient Sith, High Magister of this Order to whom is entrusted the arcane lore... and your training, should you desire such scholarly mastery.

    You must first choose a name worthy of a Sith by which we may call you until you should ever attain the Darth title. Furthermore, you must set your feet upon one of three paths - the path to arcane power of the Sith Sorcerer, the blood-soaked way of the Sith Warrior, or the balance of the Force and the blade in the shadowed Sith Assassins. Do this, and you shall be assigned a Master in time, to guide you on your chosen path and forge you into a Lord among Sith.

    Humanocentrism did exist in Vitiate's Sith Empire, if only for the fact that the Dark Jedi who became the first Lords of the Sith were mostly human. Of course, the Red Sith stood on equal if not higher footing in the racial hierarchy; in the predecessor to Vitiate's reformed Empire, there is conflict in terms of whether human Dark Jedi blood or native Sith blood in the hybridised ruling caste is superior, but nonetheless all humans of non-Dark Jedi descent are scornful grotthu slaves.

    Humanocentrism in the Galactic Empire is really an illness passed on from the Republic. Sith regimes, by and large, are not humanocentric. A Gungan as yourself is of course accepted within our ranks; you will be judged on your merit alone.
     
  2. JarJarAbrams

    JarJarAbrams Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Jan 24, 2015
    Thank you, master.
     
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  3. Darth Dreadwar

    Darth Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jan 26, 2010
    Indeed! I've been enjoying the shift from Palpatine adhering to the Rule of Two to a more expansive Sith Order; we have Sith acolytes in TFU2, and various Sith (albeit rivals) in TCW. To me, it's clear that after Palpatine assumed the Rule of One, there were only two Dark Lords of the Sith, sure, but many lesser Sith comprising a Sith Order (Inquisitorius, Prophets of the Dark Side, Starkiller, Lumiya... the usual list). It lines up more with the ANH novelisation and Lucas' original conception, anyway.

    In my mind, Amedda was one such lesser Sith apprentice (not the Shadow Hand), much like Vergere. On a somewhat related note, if the Infinite Sith were active in the period, they could be interpreted as the Sith Order that opposed Darth Vader to which Bandu was aligned.
     
  4. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    I thought you believe that the amulet Dark Lord isn't Ragnos.
    Interesting...
     
  5. Darth Dreadwar

    Darth Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jan 26, 2010
    Oh, I very much prefer that interpretation, just as I prefer the interpretation that Revan learned of the pre-Republic True Sith Empire's continued[​IMG] existence rimward of Rakata Prime and sacrificed himself to the dark side to save the galaxy, but that ship sailed a long time ago.

    Having the amulet Dark Lord being Ragnos allows for the Shadow Council/Darth cult, aligned with the True Sith, to resurrect him to send the message, using him just as they used Nadd and Kun. That way, it leaves it open for Vitiate to be aligned with the Infinite Sith as well, as otherwise there'd be the question of why a member of this Shadow Council is 1) not a Darth and 2) opposing Vitiate (alongside the spirits of Sadow, Hord etc).
     
  6. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Is it possible that "The Soulworm" and "The Lady with the Locust Heart" are immortal gods of the Sith? We know that "The Left-Handed God" is Typhojem and was worshipped by the Sith who Ajunta Pall found on Ziost and Korriban.
     
  7. Darth Dreadwar

    Darth Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jan 26, 2010
    That'd be my inclination, yes, and the lady with the locust heart could be associated with Abeloth as well. The Five worshipped evil itself, which seems rather Rhandite and thus by extension True Sith in this interpretation.

    Let's not forget the malevolent magician god Krath, namesake of the Sith cult, Hershoon the Destoyer, the evil deity who survived death through splitting and binding his spirit, Pomojema, the mutated Sith with many flesh tentacles linked to Typhojem, the Reaper-like (or Nihilus-like?) Destructors (with the Dark Jedi/Jedi who would become the Doomed merely being part of the basis of the Keshiri myth), Mekamok, the evil Gungan 'gud...' And it doesn't stop there. Kad Ha'rangir and Hor Ha'ran, the destroyer and trickster gods of the Mandalorians, work well as 'immortal gods of the Sith' when you think about the Taung Warriors of Shadow (alongside the Knell and Kanzer Exiles) joining with these proposed Infinite Sith in the Nihil Retreat.

    Zelashiel the Blasphemer is implied to have innovated Force drain, so I could easily see her as the female counterpart to Hershoon the Destroyer in the Sith pantheon.
     
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  8. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    If only Abeloth was linked to the Immortal Gods of the Sith and not to Mortis. I'd have loved if Abeloth was revealed to be one of the Immortal Gods of the Sith.
     
  9. Darth Dreadwar

    Darth Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jan 26, 2010
    But she can be. 'Immortal god of the Sith' does not necessitate being ascended mortals of Sith blood. As per TOTJ Companion, other races and individuals were taking on the name Sith before the Dark Jedi and resultant hybridisation. Abeloth, in my interpretation, would have been one such example.
     
  10. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    I never said that she couldn't be.
     
  11. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    I feel as if the Son would be better placed in this instance as the Immortal God of the Sith.


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  12. Darth Dreadwar

    Darth Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jan 26, 2010
    I'm not so sure.

    "Destruction, replaced by creation." Regardless of his malevolence - which the Daughter doesn't seem to think is entirely his fault, which makes sense given what we know of their origins - the dynamic between the three is balanced. Whereas Abeloth is the warped and perverse epitome of imbalance - chaos, entropy, destruction without creation. The Son would perhaps want to rule the cosmos, in contrast to what I think the Infinite Sith and their apocalyptic deities should be all about - the devouring of the cosmos.

    The Ones cooperate to seal Abeloth away. She is much, much worse than the Son.
     
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  13. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    Admittedly that works better.

    It's the difference between Destructive Evil and Ordered Evil.


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  14. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Furthermore, Typhojem strongly resembles Abeloth but doesn't resemble Son whatsoever.
     
  15. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    Criton's Point is an odd world, too. Definitely pre-Adas Sith material, for it's location.


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  16. Darth Dreadwar

    Darth Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jan 26, 2010
    It's a recurring theme with the Sith, one that I took notice of for the first time with Kreia and Mical talking about the true Sith. You end up with a pretty clear split with the Sith species, Kaox Krul, Darth Jadus, the Dread Masters, Darth Phobos, and its zenith in Darth Nihilus, the Sorcerers of Rhand and Vitiate, contrasting with the Heresiarchs, Ragnos, Sadow, Kun, Darth Revan and the ultimate representatives in Darth Ruin, Darth Krayt and Palpatine. They're all incredibly self-destructive ideologies in their highest expression, with Nihilus' hunger and the Sorcerers' entropy worship macerating their bodies to a degree even more extreme than Ommin's crippling, but in the end Ruin and Palpatine through their solipsistic Creed and megalomaniacal Rule of One doom themselves and the Sith Order.

    Indeed, and Typhojem is explicitly an immortal god of the Sith, for the fact that he is worshipped, but also that he is left-handed like the species.

    I told you I missed a few. :p

    The library and Force arcana cements Xer (and Xim) as Infinite Sith remnants as well.
     
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  17. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    I wonder if Son was involved in the Great Schisms. He's "orderly" like the dark jedi and both Xendor and Ruin met him. Maybe Son caused or encouraged the Great Schisms in order to keep the true Sith in check.
     
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  18. Darth Dreadwar

    Darth Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jan 26, 2010
    Ah, now that's an idea. In many ways I prefer that interpretation, as I don't like the idea of every Sith threat being accredited to the True Sith. It'd cement the differences in the Sith ideologies and lineages (New vs Old), and perhaps explain why the True Sith Bataal Bandu belonged to a Sith Order which opposed Darth Vader.
     
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  19. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    The question is; is Vitiate associated with the infinite Sith or Order Sith? Being as Ragnos, Hord, Sadow and Kun oppose him - I'd be inclined to say he is his own group.

    The Shadow Council dislike him, after all. Probably for stealing their victory in the GHW?

    EDIT: Unless he was chosen by the Shadow Council and turned against them and forged his own path, when he killed six thousand Lords? Much like how I posited that the Alsakan Sith setup Constipex and then they fell out.


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  20. Darth Dreadwar

    Darth Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jan 26, 2010
    I'm now leaning towards saying Vitiate was associated with the Infinite Sith, and indeed one of the Shadow Council who possessed a child turning him into the Sith antichrist; we can't very have two groups of "True Sith" running around in opposition... unless it's the NSO vs Infinite Sith in the RPG, of course. :p

    And I'm not so sure the Shadow Council do dislike him. Ragnos, Kun, Sadow and Hord do, and while I might not be able to say "The Dark Lord who crowned Kun was a Shadow Councillor, not Ragnos," I can say that the Shadow Council - who are human Dark Jedi Exiles - resurrected Ragnos (which is in line with the fact Ragnos requires resurrecting in Jedi Academy) to create the message. And it'd be a Shadow Councillor, who "sleeps in stone" in a Temple rather than being a spirit requiring summoning from Chaos in a tomb, who bids Nadd to corrupt Kun - the "He is ready, Nadd" figure - and likewise we see several advise and chastise Palpatine in Empire's End. Ragnos, who now knows of the Infinite Sith and realises their plans run rather contrary to his "Ordered" goals, rallies Sith spirits to oppose them. So while Ragnos, Sadow, Kun and Revan are manipulated by the Infinite Sith/Shadow Council to do their bidding, they both eventually come to oppose them, because they want to rule and live forever (at least Ragnos, Kun, Hord and Sadow do), but they ultimately realise the Infinite Sith want to eat them along with everything else.

    This would follow on from the Wherefore art thou Darth speculation that the Darth cult was in opposition to the non-Darth lineage, hence the refusal of most of the ancient Sith (apart from, significantly, Vitiate's Empire) to take the title, and of course the rejection of it by Kaan and Darzu and such. So you'd have multiple competing ideologies among the Heresiarchs, with Darth Andeddu and compatriots inheriting the Darth cult from the Sith species and ruling in secret from Korriban, and non-Darths who drove him to Prakith, and reigned openly from Ziost. So they're not necessarily enemies - the Shadow Council does have influence over the Old Sith Empire as a whole, just as its predecessor did over the Exiles through Ku'ar Danar, but that isn't to say they fully see eye to eye, and there's definitely different agendas at work. Post-GHW, the hat's out of the bag.
     
  21. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    Sadow and Vitiate have both been referenced as Darth's however, so that does not entirely work.


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  22. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    http://www.theforce.net/latestnews/story/Jason_Fry_Facebook_QA_Recap_144784.asp

    Q: I was wondering if there was a specific intention behind calling Naga Sadow "Darth Naga Sadow," or if it was an error.

    A: From Paul re Sadow: Yes, there was a specific intention with using the name Darth Naga Sadow. It's meant to indicate Sadow's ambition, and his status as "supreme viceroy" (i.e. top Dark Lord). The context needed a title that wasn't Sith'ari. But it doesn't necessarily mean that it's a contemporary usage.

    Also, where was Vitiate referenced as a Darth?
     
  23. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    In the Old Republic encyclopaedia.


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  24. Darth Dreadwar

    Darth Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jan 26, 2010
    Ah, but in my interpretation, Vitiate, being of the Shadow Council or at the very least aligned with the Infinite Sith, should be a Darth:

    I find the fact Vitiate and his Empire were using the Darth title as evidence for their association with the Infinite Sith, just like the Shadow Councillor Darth Andeddu.

    And Naga Sadow was manipulated to do their bidding for a time, just as Revan was, and both took the title Darth accordingly. It is possible the allegiance of Ragnos changed, and with him many other Sith spirits, after he was clued in to the Infinite Sith's intentions with Vitiate's Ritual of Nathema. This would be after he willingly recorded/flow walked into the future with his amulet, as per the Shadow Council's will.

    Kun himself would be drawing on the many different sects and 'new breed of devotee' the Infinite Sith were raising across the galaxy, and of course unknowingly doing the work of the Infinite Sith as a sort of dark side messiah to resurrect the Order thanks to the amulet, and it is after he loses his body on Yavin and communes with the spirits of Ragnos, Sadow and Hord that he joins them and others in opposition to Vitiate.
     
  25. E. L.Knight

    E. L.Knight Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 4, 2012
    I apologize for my tardiness. I have had a rough few days with a death in the family and then my mother fell ill.

    Sidious failed because of the age of problem all megalomaniacs have. Pride. We know that Sidious knew about the Prophecy of the Chosen One and it is, in fact, nearly said plainly that He made Anakin.

    Sidious was a Master of the Force ability that allowed him to see all the possible futures and what he needed to do to make certain ones come to be. He could see nearly everything, but, he chose to rather focus on just the futures and possibilities he wanted to see unfold. He was blinded by the fact he thought he couldn't lose, and couldn't be stopped.

    Had Sidious invested more time in focusing on his future AFTER he was able to build his Empire and wipe out the Jedi, he would have known where his downfall would be.

    Another reason he failed, is he focused far too much on political power and expanding his Empire, rather than building the Sith and expanding THEIR prestige and power. Training those under him properly would have allowed them to be more effective apprentices and Agents of the Sith.

    As for which apprentice should be the proper blueprint for training. That is quite a question, and one must consider the vast history of the Sith to decide who would be the right choice. Many would say Sidious himself, because he came the closest to the actual goals of the Sith. Others would say Tyrannus, as he did everything exactly as he was told and he was a powerful presence in every plan he was a part of.

    I think, my choice will be Darth Bane. He joined the Sith and learned quickly, then he revolutionized the Order by eliminating the weak and ineffective Masters and seizing power for himself. He then created a legacy, based on Darth Revan's and others teaching that lead all the way to Sidious. Bane is prophesed canonically as the Sith'ari, which is the highest title one can be given among the Sith.
     
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