Full Series The *Official* Anakin Skywalker in the Clone Wars Discussion Thread

Did you even watch ROTS? The ony reason he turns is because of Padme. He turned on the Jedi, so he can gain the power to save his wife.(Which is dumb, but I am pretty sure all of us would have done the same thing.) Turning on Obi-Wan had more to do with him being a Jedi and by that time, Anakin was to far down the dark path. Choking Padme is the irony of the whole story, insteading of saving the person he loves, he ends up causing her death.

Anakin not liking change, is a very human. We all have had a moment where we wished things did not have to change, Anakin's fatal flaw comes from a very human quality, he did not know how to let go which dates back to his upbringing. Luke too had this problem in some ways, not to the extent of his father, but he still had it, but he was able to get it over it.

Remember what Luke said in the end of ROTJ. "You can't die, I have to save you." Luke did not know how to let go, til the very end of the saga.

Unless you are Jesus, Ali etc, you could relate to not letting things go it is a very human emotion.

 

Instead of trusting his friends with his problem, which could have easily saved her life through reliable medical science, he betrayed them, everything he believed in, and everything good for a chance at possibly rediscovering a lost legendary Sith technique to save her. Yeah, that makes sense. And the fact that he saw Obi-Wan as a Jedi, and therefore an enemy, instead of as his trusted friend is exactly why I'm saying that your "loyalty" argument is silly. And Anakin turning on his wife is ironic, yes, but it's also unbelievable, because it is incredibly poorly justified. Obi-Wan sneaks aboard space vessels all the time. Anakin knows this. But when Obi-Wan comes out of her ship, he immediately assumes that Padme has betrayed him, and therefore must be punished. I'm failing to see how you can argue that Anakin's flaws are love and loyalty, unless you mean to himself.

 

Anakin's loyalty is a double-edge sword. Kenobi said it best in the novel, that Anakin would never let Obi-Wan die, even if it mean't stopping the war. Luke too had the same problem in ESB, when he goes after Leia and Han, even though finishing his training would have been better in the long run, he goes to Bespin and causes more problems.

Anakin was willing to do anything to save his love ones, when he turns he realizes that he could not only stop the people from dying, but he could control things and make them the way he wants them to be. Basically power corrupts.

 

I have a hard time seeing Luke destroying everything Han and Leia hold dear, then trying to kill them with a lightsaber. And I don't think he'd ever get mad enough to choke the life out of them with the Force, either. See, he actually cares about them.

 

But he was still willing to go and save them, even though it was forseen that he would suffer and would not make a differnce. The problem is that everyone was assuming that Anakin would be just like Luke in terms of decisions. Even though,their alot alike and have simlier faults, the key differnce is that Anakin was not able to overcome his faults, while Luke is able to in the end.

Anakin is the tragic hero, while Luke is an epic one.

 

That's insane. So he was a hologram? An AI, perhaps?

That's not fact, that's opinion. And in any event, there are a lot of very real unlikeable people in the real world. Try going outside once in a while. You can't miss 'em.

No, as I already stated, Obi-Wan never said he was a heroic man. And even if he had, it wouldn't be a problem. But the fact remains that Obi-wan never said that. Fabricating Obi-Wan quotes won't help you.

 

True, Kenobi did say that Anakin was the best starpilot in the galaxy and he was a cunning warrior, he was a good friend.

In ROTJ, he says Anakin was a good person

 

"Anakin's loyalty is a double-edge sword. Kenobi said it best in the novel, that Anakin would never let Obi-Wan die, even if it mean't stopping the war."

IMHO it would have helped the movie tremendously if that conversation was actually a part of the movie.


I personally liked Anakin in episode 2 and the first half of episode 3. The thing that has never worked for me in the story is that the most evil person in the galaxy, basically a guy who has done nothing but lying and deceiving, says he can save people from dying, and Anakin believes him and joins him. The Dark lord never shows Anakin that he can in fact do this. Anakin believes the Sith lord can bring people back from the dead, because the master of lies said so. This is kindergarten sandbox material at its best.

Anakin is willing to kill helpless children and all his friends, Including Obi-Wan who is basically his father, Plo Koon, Yoda and thousands of other Jedi, because Sidious apparently said he could bring people back from the dead.

I love all the Star Wars movies, overall episode 3 might even be the best of them, but George Lucas is a complete idiot when it comes to psychology and writing a logical plot for his main character. The worst offence is that Lucas had 25 years to write this story, and this idiot version of Anakin?s turn is what he ended up making the final cut.

 

>>>basically a guy who has done nothing but lying and deceiving

So sayeth the caricature. And yet his only (somewhat) provable lie is in ROTS after that point.

Just for fun, give me a list of all the "lies" Palpatine told in the PT.

In advance: Yeah, that's what I thought.

 

I agree, that alot of the conversations in the novel would have helped the movie, but it is still well done. Killing the childern etc, was to show how far Anakin had fallen and how much he wanted to save Padme. Anakin's turn IMO is well done, I had more problems with Padme then I did with Anakin,lol.

 

TCW Anakin seems more like Luke to me, and maybe that's why I like him better.


With respect to PT Anakin, as I've stated many times, Lucas wasted one entire movie on Anakin's childhood, which we didn't need to see, and made OT Obi-Wan into Qui-Gon Jinn, another wasted character.

We need 3 movies to understand why the Hero fell, instead we get a tiny bit in TPM, a little more in AOTC when his mother dies, and then everything falls apart in ROTS. Part of what makes ROTS so exciting is the breathtaking pace, but it also rushes the transformation of Anakin.


With respect to what Ben Kenobi tells Luke, why does he keep insisting Anakin was a good man and his friend, if he wants Luke to kill Vader? Why not tell him Anakin was a spoiled brat who wanted things his way or no way? Wouldn't that give him more reason to kill Vader?

I'm probably the only person who thinks that Yoda and Ben didn't necessarily want Luke to kill Vader. But now I'm getting the thread off topic.


EDIT: The other thing that would have helped the movie is show only Jedi Masters had access to certain information (Sith Holocrons) in the Archives - thus, his anger at the Council becomes far easier to understand, and it helps explain his desperation.

It also explains why he wouldn't talk to Yoda or Obi-Wan about it, because it's a Sith teaching he needs....

 

Quite frankly this debate is just laughable.
I'm a fan of the Anakin Skywalker character, so I would be biased with whatever I post.
He's not perfect, and maybe thats the point. He's flawed but then everyone is, Anakin just lets his flaws consume him and destroy him.

Its easy for the Clone Wars cartoon, they dont have to develop Anakin too much. Yes of course there is development, but not compared to the arc he follows in the grander story. He still has some reckless tendencies and headstrong moments but he's more like the ROTS Anakin.

The films represent Anakin in the key stages of his life, at times where his life is changed dramatically, his emotions are toyed with and he himself searches for a control which will inevitably destroy his life.

Arguing over his characterisation in AOTC is more like bashing your head against a brick wall. I dont see him as a jerk, more a young emotionally vulnerable youth who masks his insecurities with arrogance. But then there are aspects of that characterisation I can relate to. Though I will stress the Tusken slaughter is not relatable. Revenge is no form of justice.

 

Well, what was Obi-Wan honestly going to tell him?

"Look, we didn't really get on for a good ten/twelve years, he was really annoying and whiney when growing up and he kinda killed all the Jedi and I had to lop his arms and limbs off and leave him to dip in hot lava."

 

I actually think Anakin at the beginning of RotS is pretty much how we're seeing him right now. He's the hero of the day, he's grown wiser, more mature, patient, etc. Yet there's also this undercurrent of frustration, and not being able to let go.

In RotS, he wants to go help the clone pilot out, plus he's not willing to leave Obiwan behind. It's funny how the first situation (clone pilot) shows a weakness in him (Anakin irrationally places individuals over the 'greater good', which is odd for a Jedi General, especially by the end of the Clone Wars - one would think he would have learned by now), and how the situation with Obiwan shows him as someone whose stubbornness is actually a good thing. (A la Qui-Gon).

Long story short, I think Anakin in The Clone Wars is pretty much Anakin at the beginning of RotS. The difference is mostly in his voice. Animated Anakin sounds 'nicer'. Though I like Hayden's voice better.

 

Right. The things which are wrong with Anakin are largely what Lucas intended to be wrong with Anakin. However, that doesn't make him a good Jedi. It makes him intentionally damaged.

He never says he's a hero. Ben calls him "a cunning warrior", "a good friend", "the best starpilot in the galaxy", and "a good man." That doesn't necessarily mean he's a hero, it means Obi-Wan was fond of his friend before he turned to evil.

 

To "SuperSaiyaMan12"--

First of all i am aware that i used the phrase "PT" in my post but when i say "PT" its only because i use it as an abbreviation so people know what im talking about and also i dont feel like typing out "Episodes 1,2 and 3" every time. There is no "PT" and "OT" its just "The Saga". 50 years from now people aren't going to be saying "PT" and "OT" just like they aren't going to complain all the time about how they hate star wars and its creator yet still hang around and call themselves "fans" even though all they do is bring down the whole fan base --like you!

Dont ever insult me or "poke fun at me" in your hateful posts just because im saying that i actually () appreciate the star wars saga. Is that what you do every time you spot someone who ACTUALLY LIKES star wars? I will never understand how or why people who do that can get away with calling themselves "fans" but thats another story.

I have **LOVED** star wars all my life. I have spent countless hours watching interviews and documentary's about star wars. I would go as far as to say i have grown up with the prequels as well as the originals and because of this (because im an actual FAN) i understand, appreciate AND enjoy the prequels EVERY BIT AS MUCH as the originals. I didnt fall for this big stupid fad of talking trash about lucas every chance i get in order to be part of some subculture of bitter, ignorant "fans" that hate everything about star wars that was made after the year 1980 when ESB came out and im not going to apologize for being above that ether.

Go back to playing "knights of the old republic" and thinking you know it all. I will be enjoying star wars instead of hating it.

 

Gease, you're saying fans *can't* hate portions of hte 'Saga' because they just can't? A whole bunch of people who enjoy the ORIGINAL TRILOGY when Lucas actually thought 'I need help with this', when he had humility and everything are not really fans?

You call us insulting, but you've been insulting everyone who even gives the most *mild* bit of Lucas criticism since you seem to view him as a god-like figure in films. True, he has a lot of great ideas, but he got a *swelled head* after the OT. Does this mean you like his Howard the Duck too, just because it was made by George?

And excuse me for actually LIKING QUALITY WRITING in Star Wars for liking KOTOR, YJK, and a lot of the EU. Know why KOTOR is put on a pedestal? Its because of its writing. Its because of its gameplay. Its because of its dialogue. It was everything the Prequels were not. The Prequel Trilogy *was not* quality writing. Bad dialogue, creepy, CREEPY romance, horrible characters, huge plot holes...all were a staple of the Prequel Trilogy, even in Episode III.

When anyone offers Lucas Criticism, you fly off the handle, accusing us of not being true fans since we don't fall over and love everything he produces. Saying 'I'm a true fan since I love and appreciate the SAGA' is insulting, since people offer criticism to directors/writers/producers and can be considered fans.

So lets calm down now, and don't say anything we'll regret. We both don't want to be banned, after all.

 

A fan is fan is a fan. If you like any piece of Star Wars, you're a fan.

Personally, I love the PT despite all its flaws. And whats so great about CW is that it fixes a lot of those flaws. Like the characterization of Anakin.

 

There is much anger in this thread.

For the record, I love every SW movie. From I to VI. But that doesn't mean that I'm not objective and cannot identify where I feel there are problems with delivery.

It just seems his maturity seems to do a quantum leap from AOTC to TCW. Anakin was a tough character to "root for" in AOTC.

 

That's roughly where I am too.

 

Well just for the record the TCW takes place nearer ROTS, so he has been coloured by the events of the war which have made him more mature as a result.

And I wouldnt necessarily believe he was hard to root for, I think the characterisation is terribly misconstrued in general. He's a good person, flawed but ultimately good. He failed himself where the Tuskens were concerned but he wasn't completely lost. He was arrogant but what did it really mask? His inability to control, to be in control. I've always thought, if you can ever read it, that LardBiscuit (in part of his AOTC commentary articles) gives a good account of Anakin's character.

I can understand why Anakin's behaviour towards Padme might be the tipping point, but I think I understood where Anakin came from, his actions werent necessarily creepy, just awkwardly executed. He didnt know how to deal with how Padme made him feel, and he certainly didnt know how to woo her.

But I'm an Anakin so as I said in an earlier post I'm slightly biased.

 

I agree, a fan is a fan - some have no criticisms, some have a few, some have a lot.

I grew up with OT but I love the PT (except for SOME things - say, pod racing which took too much story time, IMHO).

I agree that Anakin came off awkward in his romance. I understand what GL wanted to portray, but I didn't always see it. Is it directing? Acting?

So because Anakin, especially in AoTC came across too brash, too arrogant, nearly creepy once, does NOT mean I don't understand what GL intended - the character just didn't come across as it should have. IMHO.

Yes, I get it - Anakin was supposed to be a good man who made bad decisions. I didn't see it as I would have liked. I see the "good man" in the cartoons, but it was a struggle in AoTC.

Do Ilike Star Wars - warts and all? YES. But it is not above criticism, nor without merit.

 

Just for the record i dont care about "George Lucas" at all. The only ones who i ever hear talking about "lucas this and lucas that" are the ones who hate everything. Im not thinking about the director when i watch star wars or mostly anything else for that matter. Why do people think that just because someone likes star wars they must be some kind of lucas worshiper??? Anyways i have no problem with constructive criticism but i think that if you dont like something to the point where all you can do is make fun of it and insult it just because you heard someone speak of it positively than maybe you should find something else to do, but what ever.

 

You have to realize that Star Wars is so massive that it would take more films to actually show us that sort of progression. In TPM we see Anakin as the innocent slave child of Tatooine. We also see his skills as a pilot and we see that he has a selfless quality to him. In AOTC he has already been through training and now that he's aced everything he is frustrated because he feels he is being held back from progression. In ROTS he fears for losing his wife after a vision which if you remember the last time he had a vision it was dead on so no wonder he panics and then things spiral out of control and you have the Jedi Purge, Empire formation and the birth of Darth Vader. I would have liked to see what made Anakin such a hero and great Jedi but Lucas only had three films and so much to tell. Part of that is why I think the PT should have been like LOTR lenghtwise. I like TCW Anakin and I think it certainly reinforces his character. Is he better? I say he's the same person but we see what makes him a hero as opposed to seeing all these hints of Darth Vader the PT itself is required to explore.

 

People need to chill out in this thread. Now. G_M.