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I disagree. I often use tools as an example. A hammer can smash things. Must be a dark side tool. Oh, but then it can create a house. It's in how you use it.

Luke uses Force Lightning. Though he calls it "Electric Judgement." Quite the euphamism there. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Electric_Judgment

 

@Sinrebirth, According to the arguments above, no, she's not Jedi, but she's not Gray. She's still firmly a lightsider. She avoids the dark side. As I understand the discussion, she's simply unenrolled Jedi.

 

Her aggressive streak might dabble in it a little:

"Revenge is not the Jedi way, is it?"
"I am no Jedi."

Her refusal to return to the Order's fold after being acquitted, might make her "grey in the same sense that Djinn Altis was grey" - a Jedi who no longer answers to Yoda's orders.

The Sith seem to disdain Electric Judgement-esque powers as "not true Force Lightning"

Darth Plagueis

"A Jedi sufficiently strong in the Force can be trained to produce a fascimile, but not true Sith lightning, which, unabated, has the power not only to incapacitate or kill, but to physically transform the victim. Force lightning requires a strength of a sort only a Sith can command because we accept consequence and reject compassion. To do so requires a thirst for power that is not easily satisfied. The Force tries to resist the callings of ravenous spirits; therefore it must be broken and made a beast of burden. It must be made to answer to one's will."
"But the Force cannot be treated deferentially," he added as a few final tendrils sparked from his fingertips. "In order to summon and use lightning properly, you will someday have to be on the receiving end of its power, as a means of taking the energy inside yourself."

 

OK, Karen. (That's to Plagueis, not you, @Iron_lord)

I have a friend who's a carpenter. Using the hammer analogy above, I don't have sufficient skill to create some of the items he does. That is true. To poopoo my work just because, that's just hubris.

 

@clone commander bossk And yet the Je’daii for eons were able to balance the Light and the Dark Sides, using dark side powers commonly, “By contrast, the forebears of the Jedi, the Je'daii, openly and commonly used Force Lightning without seeing it as a moral or philosophical issue, though they did admit that there were safety risks and that this power was a weapon of Bogan.” (Force Lightning, Wookieepedia)

Indeed, and Luke uses Force Choke, an exclusively dark side power on the Gammoreans at Jabba’s palace:



We never see a Jedi resort to such tactics, and yet using the power doesn’t corrupt Luke in the slightest.

Rey uses Force Lightning it didn’t lead her to become a Sith:



Yoda uses lightning (Force Storm) on Achch-To:



Which we see The Emperor use:



It seems evident that Kyle Katarn was right, its not the powers that corrupt, it what you decide to do with them.

 

Doesn't Anakin do so in TCW before his actual Fall? I think he choked Poggle the Lesser, for example.

 

Indeed, my theory about Anakin is he falls more due to Palpatine’s grooming and manipulation than by his use of dark side powers. I mean Anakin used dark side powers here and there during The Clone Wars & remains a dutiful Jedi, but its when Palpatine tells him only as a Sith can he learn the power to save Padme; to which then Anakin is told he has to do bad things with those powers to become strong enough to save his wife; and its those killing sprees of Younglings, and Separatist Leaders that I believe really corrupted him, not the powers themselves.

 

Didn't a load of jed'aii fall to the dark side? I'm just going by canon, since i don't know nearly enough about legends.

On Luke ok, fair point i don't have much of an explenation for that, but you don't see luke choking people willy-nilly if he did he'd probably fall to the darkside.

On Rey this was definitely using the darkside, but this wasn't on purpose. It was something she could have become and she was horrified of doing. Again, after this we don't see Rey zapping people left and right.

Yoda is a force ghost, so i think he has special powers. To me it looks like he's more influencing the weather of the planet (like we see in the high republic) not making unnatural lightning from the force.

But if we're talking legends anything goes.

 

@clone commander bossk
The Light Side can be as damaging as The Dark Side without Balance. The Non-Attachment belief of Jedi during the Clone Wars, and that Master Luke Skywalker adopts post The Battle of Endor is twisted, and evil. Sentients need attachment, they need love. It is attachment that Master Luke had for his father that saved Anakin, it was Vader’s attachment for his son that caused him to save his son. I find if ironic Luke adopts a philsophy of Ashla, non-attachment, when he wouldn’t be alive to train a new generation of Jedi without his father’s love and attachment.
The Non-Attachment is not a fluke, it is the intent of The Maker, he hated that Master Luke married Mara Jade, and the Maker hated the New Jedi Order that more closely resembled the Je’daii and Altisian Jedi, in that they NJO allowed families.

The philosophy of Ashla leads to non-attachment, and so does the philosophy of Bogan, because Sith tend to avoid loving bonds because it opens one up to betrayal, (perceived) weakness, and can make a darksider hesitate to do what they necessary to hold on to power.

That is why The Dai Bendu, The Grey Way is The Truth. We don’t follow philosophies that forbid bonds and attachment. I agree with the Mandalorin Djin response to Armorer, “Armorer : In order to master the ways of the Force, Jedi must forgo all attachment. The Mandalorian : That is the opposite of our Creed. Loyalty and solidarity are the way.” (Book of Boba Fett). Indeed, we Gray are loyal to one another, and have solidarity in The Balance of the Force.

 

I absolutely agree with all of that, the jedi have some major flaws, but they're far better than sith.

 

Agreed, The Jedi tend to be
more noble in that they try to use The Force to protect and help sentients, they also defend The Republic which with its freedoms allows our Order to exist peaceably, when a Sith Empire would most likely force us into hiding.

I must bring up the Sith don’t forbid the use of the Light Side, its just they tend to forgo it because they believe their power stems from, and is consolidated by the dark side, so they devote themselves to it and tend to use it exclusively. Their aggression and conquest bent tends to lead to using the Force in harmful ways, though there are some Sith Lords who defied this norm like Darth Vectivus, “Darth Vectivus' self-discipline and preexisting code of ethics allowed him to remain fair and balanced without succumbing to the lure of power which plagued many of the Sith Lords who preceded him. He eventually returned to the mine and maintained a plentiful existence in the company of friends and loved ones alike.” (Darth Vectivus, Wookieepedia)

There are Light Side Sith, a very usual group I have yet to study in depth, and there are also The Jenasaarai who used the dark side but had morals more akin to the Jedi.

 

It is intriguing the Jedi forbid the dark side and fear if, while the Sith do not forbid the Light Side. I love Palpatine’s quote that we could use as Grey mantra, “if one is to understand the Great mystery, one must study all its aspects, not just dogmatic view of the Jedi.” Perhaps leaving that last line off.
That does raises an interesting juxtaposition between the Jedi being dogmatic, following principles as incontrovertibly true, while the Sith explore abilities unnatural and hidden knowledge that could call into question established truths.
The former gives a sense security, the latter greater liberty.

@DarthIshyZ
You are warning me. Hmmm..

 

Not at all. Just staying out of the argument that the Jedi are "far better than the Sith." Opinions are like ********. Everyone has one, and they all stink.

 

Please don’t hold back. I just vented my fury on non-attachment.
I see merits with both the Jedi and Sith, I admire the Jedi’s ideal of defending the weak as knights, and I admire the Sith that they forbid no knowledge. I am going to read The Book of the Dead, which in circles of Jedi I have known would be frowned upon and considered dangerous, me being told to only study the Sacred Jedi texts. But I believe knowledge doesn’t corrupt, that ignorance makes us fools, you have to study the sources to have the credibility and authority to advise for or against it.

 

Yeah, I'm good.

 

Being able to refrain is a good quality.

 

I was thinking about the confrontation on Mustafar. What if Qui-Gon had been Anakin’s master or was alive and chose to confront him would events have played out differently?

@greyjedi125
@clone commander bossk
@DarthIshyZ

 

I think so. Kenobi was into the fight. Probably because he was a General. Qui-Gon would have been much more mature about it. Likely could have talked Anakin down.

 

If Qui-Gon was his master he'd probably never have fallen in the first place.

 

Agree with clone commander bossk, I do.

 

I concur. I think Qui-Gon would be more invested in helping Anakin return to the Light because he believed he was the Chosen One. He also didn’t have the Jedi’s puritanical you can’t make a mistake with the dark side, “People are more than their worst act,” Obi-Wan recited. It was something Qui-Gon had said to him many times, which at last seemed to be sinking in. “At least, most people. And they are also more than the worst thing ever done to them,” and “Averross: "You've made mistakes Qui-gon. You've touched darkness."
Qui-Gon: "Yes i have. No doubt I will again. This isn't a choice we make once and walk away from. It's the work of a lifetime.” (Master and Apprentice, Claudia Gray).
Qui-Gon believed that you can do a dark act or acts, not be lost, that its as he said “a work of a lifetime” to overcome impulses that are dark side.
So I believe he’d have approached Anakin like this, with understanding and I think he’d have had compassion on Anakin about the rigidity of the Jedi Council’s interpretation of the Code, him disagreeing that the Code should act like a prison, but instead needs to be re-interpreted constantly.

 

Lady Xaan and I are having quite a duel in the Rancor Pit. If you’d like to watch, come join us:

https://boards.theforce.net/threads/the-rancor-pit-euc-dueling-thread.50010125/page-131

https://boards.theforce.net/threads...ueling-thread.50010125/page-132#post-57980716

-Nkri

 

IC: Nkri Tzenti
Mending and Dinner Plans



The Grey Novice was taken to a grove where the healers tended to his wound. It was short work, for the cut was not deep. Nkro had an unusual request.
“I wish to keep the scar.”
The Healers obliged him and all was done. The Light Sith then went to his quarters, there he had a natural water fall shower and put on black Revanite underrobes, and then the plate armor torso of Ashla, and a burgundy red robe with a hood of the Whills. As he looked in the mirror, he saw combination of disciplines and traditions he had participated in. All streams of the Grey. Nkri held the mirrored face plate in grove of his arm, he waited for instructions for where he’d meet the Lady Xaan to dine.

TAG: @greyjedi125