Fanclub The Official EUC Grey Jedi Fan Club - Unknown, unseen and unsung

They probably call it "raising to the light" because they want to equate it with heaven. But, we have seen it before, too. Vader when he chucked Sheev into the pit, and Ulic Qel-Droma.

 

Vader throwing Sidious into the pit is considered a justifiable act of 'good', yes? So much so, that he is 'redeemed' from his fall to the darkside.

In the Force Unleashed, Galen Marek, Vader's Apprentice, goes through a similar path, as he first slays Jedi in hiding, but later faces off against the Emperor and is slain, even as he sacrifices himself for his friends so that they may escape and eventually give rise to the 'Rebellion' and future Republic.

In the video provided ( as well as other conversations), I've heard some refer as 'falling to the light' as something 'bad'. Darth Traya from KotOR emphasizes this, but gives no good examples of what that means. I just thought it curious, that this is a thing that is said, but never really truly exemplified.

Vader, Ulic, Galen. These are arcs of redemption from a place of darkness. They are restored to the light.

I see no reports of Yoda being detrimentally over exposed, or Master Fay, for example. Arguably, these two are exceptions to the general rule.

We tend to like characters that are relatable, clearly. But it is fair to say, if we have clearly defined villains, we should also have clearly defined Heroes. Thankfully, we have Obi-Wan, a jedi who stayed true to the path while able to navigate many trials. Are there any other examples like him?

 

An example of perhaps “falling to the light” would be the Jedi Sentinel’s concern about not being involved enough in the world at large, that becoming insular and monk who meditates in the light but fails to witness that light to sentients in the galaxy at large through action and good deeds (Force without works is dead). Its not so much the light itself makes you fall, but that a Jedi could become so consumed with communing with it they become so spiritual they are no earthly good and so might as well become One With The Force.
Thus its not the Light itself, but the Force User response to it and whither they become ascetic who doesn’t bear fruit of the light or that they act upon that Light becoming a candle in a dark galaxy.

 

This is a well thought out response, @Kato Sai . Indeed, 'no earthly good'. As you pointed out, this is not a 'failure' of the Light itself, but of an individual(s). Even Light itself produces fruit (Visibility/ Illumination, ambient heat, photonics energy, etc ). To do any less would construe a 'failure'. I can agree with that. Unimparted knowledge or wisdom is of no effect.

The Force is One.

 

I was thinking of Kreia, and the first thought I had was when she lectured that you can do a good deed that seems good to you but is in the macro or bigger picture can be bad for the recipient: you bail out someone’s debt and so they run up a worse debt under the Hutts (moral hazard). I was thinking her words though they urge caution are serpentine, a Jedi could then become so worried about doing something perfectly
right for the light, they never shine, having a severe case of scrupulosity, they become impaired at acting at all. We are not responsible for the sentient we do a good deed to, if they go and make more bad choices, that is their error, not the good we did unto them, for charity must not be crushed by the concern the recipient will later waste the good fruit bestowed on them, or else we might as well embrace the doctrine of Ebenezer Scrooge prior to his redemption.

 

We three share on these things, but we have lurkers. I'd like their viewpoint. @darthbernael, and especially @Adalia-Durron for her Jedi viewpoint.

 

Agreed. Darth Traya's aim was to paralyze the 'do-gooder' from doing good by injecting fear and responsibility for someone else's misdeeds. An insidious tactic ( She is a Sith after all ), as there is no guarantee that the recipient will do good or bad as a result, or if they may eventually learn their error after several misdeeds instead of one. The do-gooder is only responsible for his or her actions as is the recipient. Nothing more, nothing less. The hope is that the best result is the outcome ( Parenting is a good example of this dynamic ).

Evil triumphs when Good does nothing.

To all lurkers, please feel encouraged to chime in. We are all learners here.

Everyone is welcome to join in.

 

**Mediating**

 

Found this interesting, a potential Gray being like Bendu (Rebels) who guides Lord Vader:
https://screenrant.com/darth-vader-gray-jedi-webbish-bog-official-theory/

 

That's a very intriguing article, and though I do like the idea of it, I fear inserting these intriguing pieces of 'retcon' do more harm than good to the original story. It's like going back and adding more elements to the Mona Lisa years after the painting has been completed. The new elements might be interesting, but they ultimately change what was an original, finished and established work into something less recognizable. Instead of fidgeting with what is finish, simply continue the saga by introducing these fresh new concepts as 'new' stories, not wedges into the 'old'. Either way, I do look forward to where the franchise as a whole may be going in these days of transition and change.

The Force is One.

 

I do find it odd Lord Vader would listen to such a creature. I mean he is suppose to be dedicated to His Master and his teachings, hence when he is obsessed with Kenobi Palpatine says the following:


So I agree adding this creature retcon is out of bounds. I could see it being in a Star Wars Tales comic which arn’t canon and explore ideas like Lord Maul and Lord Vader dueling. But I agree @greyjedi125 this is too much of a retcon that conflicts with established canon developments of Darth Vader.

 

That was a good video you provided and very much in keeping with the OT. It doesn't change or alter events, but adds nicely without divergence. ( Here I mean the scene/ conversation /interaction itself ).

To your point, The Bendu happened outside of the OT, which makes the character a lot easier to accept/ introduce, generally speaking. I find Webbish Bog and characters like these very interesting, having great potential in the grander story occurring in the Galaxy Far far Away, but Vader's path is 'set in stone'. Such tweaks are risky, imo. Conversely, I would venture to say that Vergere fared much better as a character due to the setting in which we meet her. To be completely transparent, I found Ahsoka very problematic when she was first introduced. A wedge. A retcon. Today, that opinion has greatly changed. I enjoy her character immensely and applaud how she's been woven into the fabric of what has been already established.

That is to say, there are exceptions and great successes.

But let's not get carried away.

 

@greyjedi125 I love that dialogue between Lord Vader and His Master (Kenobi, Disney+), as a Gray I do find Palpatine’s words, “if you cannot move past your Past,” very important. The past can enslave if we are not careful. We can learn from it, but dwell in the past and you subvert the present which is becoming the past and in essence are making clone memories by infusing your past in the present over and over.


Bendu was so great to watch, reminded me of Treebeard. His being in The Middle, the Gray, canonized us, for Rebels is now going to continue in Ahsoka series, which makes me wonder, could Baylan Skoll and Shin Hati could be Gray Jedi?


They use dark side powers, but their countenance is not full Sith.
Orange lightsabers were often used by Gray.

I agree about Ahsoka, when she was introduced I objected. Felt like a dangerous retcon, but her leaving the Order so that Anakin never reaches Master makes it fit in with Revenge of the Sith. And why he is allowed on the council as an exception, because had Ahsoka not left, he’d likely had been a Master.

 

I cannot convey how excited I am for the Ahsoka series!! I hope it meets expectations, at least generally speaking.

Indeed, Darth Sidious spoke truth ( consider me surprised ). Overcoming past trauma is critical to having a constructive and productive future- and a harmonious present. I will concede that this is something easier said than done, but we can see how important it is.

Speaking of Sith, I'm very curious about the Acolyte series, but I haven't seen anything official posted on social media. I'm patient, so I'm sure something will come up in due course.

 

Ahsoka is the first series I feel great anticipation for. The reason is its free to explore away from the shadow of Vader and delve into worlds only seen in the books, comics, animated series, and EU games.

The Force can speak from the most unexpected places, even a Dark Lord like Palpatine who is known for intrigues and machinations.

The Acolyte did have an exclusive trailer at Celebration. Sadly the footage is not yet available to the masses.

 

Spoiler

I must confess, the phrase: 'Frozen' meets 'Kill Bill' made me cringe. I enjoyed Kill Bill very much. I can't say the same for Frozen.

 

Spoiler

Same. Major fan of Kill Bill, especially Vol II, but Frozen I never saw, I decided to Let It Go.

 

@Kato Sai

My word. I LOLed.

Staying on topic, I did hear something about a movie or series regarding the 'First Jedi'. I'm not sure how I feel about that, since it wasn't revealed if this was a completely original story, or if it would draw elements from Tython. Color me curious just the same.

 

I felt the same way about Ahsoka. Being a former Boy Scout leader, I know how mentoring someone can mature you. I thought it would move Anakin further from the dark.

 

Laughter makes the heart gladder.

Ah yes it seems they will be telling a canon tale of Prime Jedi. They need be careful, it has the potential to offend Legends fans and those who enjoy the vague and mysterious origins of the Jedi with little tid bits here and there.
I am curious how much they will borrow from Tython, the Je’daii, and repackaging of those stories in various forms.

@Sinrebirth showed a shot (https://boards.theforce.net/threads/consolidated-celebration-panic-announcement-thread.50059016/) that included The Old Republic symbol next to the High Republic, which seems to canonize that The Old Republic era still exists, which means Revan, Satale Shan, Darth Malgus, and more may end up in films and shows!!!

 

Belated Birthday Card for @Taylor Neir!


From Kato Sai

 

Thank you very much Kato

 

I thought we could do a apologetic exercise of The Gray. Below is a video that makes a case against The Gray Jedi:



How do we answer the claims? Can we use a Apophatic approach?

Feel free to pick one claim or list all of them and give answer.

Many decry our path, claiming we are heretics, misguided, illegitimate and that we are an aberration (I have been on receiving end of such comments in non-EUC threads).
I believe we must answer their remarks, like those in the video above, and show The Force is One.

 

The claim the dark side corrupts, and becomes like a drug you tap into, going back to it over and over, unable to stop, is interesting, granted this presupposes the dark side is a separate mystical force, oppose to simply bending the force to your selfish and violent ends. But what does the evidence show?

In ESB Yoda says “once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.” Which this commentator would use against our Gray Path, that you cannot touch the dark or it corrupts you.

This is contradicted by that Luke uses his agressive feelings and the dark side to defeat Vader in the Throne Room, but then throws his saber away, “no, you have failed your highness, I am a Jedi like my father before me.” Luke also used Force Choke on Gammoreans at Jabba’s Palace, which is a dark side power, we only seeing Lord Vader and Kylo Ren use it; and yet Luke, a Jedi used it without being corrupted.

Then Rey uses Force Lightning to destroy a ship in TROS, but in the end defeats Palpatine and is so pure the Jedi of ages speak to her.

So arguably two of the most powerful Jedi used dark side powers, and unlike the claims, did not get addicted like a drug to the dark side.

 

Legends has a Force Lightning called "Electric Judgement." Though, I've always thought that was hair-splitting or justification.

Likeness to a drug or addiction is interesting. There are three different kinds of people who use drugs. True addicts, those who are "casual users," and those who haven't hit their level of unmanagability. In other words, they're addicts, but are either in denial or are able to deal with the negatives enough to be "high functioning."