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The Official Legacy Series Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Literature' started by jfostrander, Feb 1, 2006.

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  1. Thanos6

    Thanos6 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 1999
    Destiny smestiny. I've always hated the idea of things destined or fated or prophesized to happen. I actually have an original story I'm writing where the heroes follow the prophecy to defeat the Dark Lord, only to learn the prophecy was written BY the Dark Lord centuries ago, to ensure that any future foes would follow a predictable, totally futile path.
     
  2. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Destiny smestiny. I've always hated the idea of things destined or fated or prophesized to happen. I actually have an original story I'm writing where the heroes follow the prophecy to defeat the Dark Lord, only to learn the prophecy was written BY the Dark Lord centuries ago, to ensure that any future foes would follow a predictable, totally futile path.

    It's just bad storytelling then.

    I would have lightsabered Han right there.
     
  3. Pershing

    Pershing Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 12, 2005
    I always thought it was more a sign of how low Palpatine had sunk. Through his desperate search for eternal life he put himself in so many situations in which he had weakend himself to ensure his continued existance that he became a mad abomination. The force of Palpatine as we knew him was dead before Solo shot him. All Han did was kill the vessel. Palpatine could've chosen a different path, perhaps biding his time like other Sith Lords as a ghost that could take possesion of person at a later time. But Palpatine was arrogant, and thus he kept making enough mistakes that he came to a point that a Corellian smuggler could shoot him in the back.
     
  4. Quiet_Mandalorian

    Quiet_Mandalorian Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Thus, as noted, becoming themselves the cause of most of the misery against which they are supposed to guard, and from which the galaxy has suffered since time immemorial.[face_plain]

    Which is something I'm actually interested in seeing more of. As of the present, the Jedi seem a bit like a priesthood without a congregation.

    *sighs*

    And there's another thing we'll never agree on. I find it far easier to conceive of Boba Fett as the principled one, and his father as the ambiguous, "shades of grey" figure.

    The Unifying Force, if anything, would seem to suggest otherwise, with regards to Boba's influence.

    I'm not particularly interested in seeing the Mandos reduced to the state of "Jedi fodder", which however hard and appeasingly you try to put otherwise, is essentially what they would be written as, and, I'm sorry to say, I don't care to conceal the fact that I'll take no small amount of pleasure in seeing that hope of yours frustrated, provided, of course, that Karen Traviss continues her work as she's done it to this point.[face_thinking]

    You're pursuing the wrong cause to attribute to your envisioned effect, ner burc'ya. The Klingons were corrupted by being increasingly depicted as buffoonish, animalistic savages who ate with their hands, used melee weapons against all comers in every situation in an age of energy weapons, and (at least according to Mike Wong) began to display increasingly animalistic, "sub-human" appearances as the years wore on.

    Like many of the D-boys depicted in Blackhawk Down, simply because the Mando'ade have the capacity to function as heroes, and are now revealed to have more than a spark of humanity about them, to be caring family men in addition to being ruthless soldiers, it doesn't mean they'll kill you with any less brutal efficiently should they have reason to, nor does that make them intrinsically opposed to the forces of what we suppose to be truth and light in the galaxy far, far away.

     
  5. Ashandarei

    Ashandarei Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 21, 2004
    So did Vader. Yet "destiny" makes it all okay?

    Personally, I can't stand the "destiny" card. It's a total cop-out. Will the hero win? Of course he will; he's destined to. The Emperor was big on "destiny" too; he believed it was Luke's destiny to become his apprentice. Obi-wan and Yoda thought it was Luke's destiny to destroy Vader and the Emperor. Yet instead of a no-holds-barred brawl with the Emperor, we have Luke refusing to fight. He REFUSES his "destiny", and becomes his own man, a Jedi on his own terms. And it is this act which causes the Emperor's destruction; not Luke drawing on his enormous reserves of power, but rather simply reaching out to his father with love.

    After that, prophecy was fulfilled. And good riddance, I say. When Palpatine came back, he was a psychopath, having lost the cunning and subtlety that allowed him to take the galaxy before. He wasn't so much a Sith as he was an embodiment of the Dark side, come back for one last gasp. And instead of being finally beaten by the "supreme champion of the Light", he's shot in the back like the thug he really is. It was a fitting ending for such an evil, powerful, dishonorable character, who had killed so many in the same way.

    Now, I ask you: would you have really wanted some prophecy about Han's part to play? Something like "The man who stands alone/Casts the darkness from its throne/The weapon at his side/A match for the dark side"? I doubt it. It's so much more of a surprise without those prophecies. And it strengthens the characters who play their part, IMO, when they don't have destiny backing them up in everything they do.

    I would much prefer a story about characters who win on their own terms, without honor, without glory, without flashy battles, only doing what they have to to beat an all-powerful threat. No galactic champions, no prophecies of evil's defeat; just strong characters, driven to save themselves and their homes from an encroaching darkness.
     
  6. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Whatever, I personally would have ended the Emperor with Luke and Leia and Anakin on the Eclipse.

    The farce at Onderon is just degrading to the Skywalker heritage to have Brand and Han do it.

    ***

    Thus, as noted, causing most of the misery from which the galaxy has suffered since time immemorial.


    Well, the same could be said of the Hutts honestly. The Force is a wonderful plot device honestly and one that adds instant panache to an enemy. However, the Yuuzhan Vong don't have the force and did probably a galaxy's history worth of damage in their short run across the universe.

    Its really a case of us needing more "Xim the Despot" style characters honestly.

    What it boils down to is that usually Force Users of Light put down non-Force using enemies fairly quickly so they never become Godlike Evils....and Evil Force Users usually roll over the opposition. Not that evil force users are more common.

    And there's another thing we'll never agree on. I find it far easier to conceive of Boba Fett as the principled one, and his father as the ambiguous, "shades of grey" figure.

    I merely note Boba left his family, Boba killed and murdered for profit, and only under duress became leader of the Mandalorians. Jango Fett left the Mandalorians only because they'd been wiped out from the face of the GFFA and tried to instill the values of his culture into the clones.

    I'll concede the Klingon bit.
     
  7. Ulkesh2

    Ulkesh2 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2001
    Hey I did a bit of research on the word CADE.

    It can mean a young calf left by it's mother and reared by hand.

    Interesting...hmmm...

    Maybe Cade Skywalker was abandoned by his mother/parents. Raised by that space pirate Rav? Kinda fits.

    Male paternal Skywalker line: Anakin, Luke, Ben, ?????, ?????, Cade

    Geez DH and Lucasfilm sure know how to drive people into a frenzy!
     
  8. dylan24601

    dylan24601 Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2004
    I admit I haven't read every word of this giganto-thread... but I think we may have overlooked a really cool possibility...

    Force Ghost Luke, anyone? Force Ghost Ben?

    Also, I just want to vote YES on this whole Lecacy business. I'm for it.
     
  9. Quiet_Mandalorian

    Quiet_Mandalorian Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Indeed. Dark-Siders are merely the most common, it would seem.[face_thinking]

    For their own protection.

    Or for cause, which, in either case, hardly seperates him from his father

    Somewhat similar to the fashion in which Luke Skywalker was convinced to embrace his heritage as a Jedi Knight.

    Well, the assumption that the Mandalorians had been "wiped off the face of the GFFA" is quite a contentious one, and not being something that I in any way accept as a realistic explanation in all but the most limited sense, is something that we'll have to debate, I think, at another time, but his primary motivation for supplying the clone template has always seemed to me to be more inspired by revenge than any other reason. That he instilled his culture into the clones, with the assistance of the Cuy'val dar seems more likely to have been a secondary consideration at best, at least on his part, but both of those questions are going to have to wait, I think, for Triple Zero's release in order to be answered canonically and in full.

    Thanks.
     
  10. Ulkesh2

    Ulkesh2 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2001
    Did some further research on the name CADE.

    According to a name defining website Cade is translated as...

    ROUND

    Kind of fits the old saying...

    "the CIRCLE is now complete."

    So Cade=round fits with Vader's statement.

    Cade Skywalker seems to fit rather well with the SW mythology.
     
  11. Darth_Culator

    Darth_Culator Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2005
    Voluntary entechment.

    Precedent: [link=http://starwars.wikicities.com/wiki/Molierre_Cundertol]Molierre Cundertol[/link], Force Heretic II: Refugee. It was a perfectly good idea. And he would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for those meddling extragalactic S&M freaks.


    I really love the idea of a benevolent Empire under the command of an enlightened despot.
     
  12. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Well it's a simple issue Quiet_Mandalorian, I distinguish the Mandalorian Super Commandoes/Crusaders/Warrior tradition from the people from the Mandalore sector. The average Mandalorian is a human who has no relationship whatsoever to the Mandalorian warrior tradition whatsoever. Same as a modern Day Italian has to a Roman.

    That's partially why I accept the "Jango was the Last Mandalorian" aspect. The Mandalorian WARRIORS numbered perhaps a thousand when the Jedi destroyed the few survivors of their Civil War.

    And I guess we'll just have to disagree about Boba.
     
  13. Master_Starwalker

    Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2003
    As cool as the idea of a Force Ghost Luke is, I'd rather have him live out the full age for a Force User of his strength, considering that Vima lived to be over 200 and Luke's power can dwarf hers I still think that he should be alive still, even if it's in a diminished role where he's the wise leader of the Jedi who just will save Cade when necessary.

    The death of Luke is really the biggest thing bugging me about this series.
     
  14. vong333

    vong333 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2003
    Well, this answers it does it. Star Wars will now move into the future. So, sooner or later, we have to have a book or something on how Luke dies and stuff like that I think. I'm excited, this is what star wars needed, a big push forword, now I'm even more interested in the nine book series that is coming out in the next couple of months. Not bad. At least this makes me feel better, after that debacle with the oscars.
     
  15. Lord_Hydronium

    Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Well, do we know that Luke is dead? I know it says the last heir to the Skywalker legacy, but the promos for KOTOR II called the Exile the last Jedi, when the whole point of the game turned out to be that he really wasn't. It was the common perception, though. Perhaps it's a similar thing here; Luke disappeared or whatever, and everyone thinks he's dead.

    And there's always the unthinkable possibility that he didn't get the chance to live out a natural life, but I don't know if the "no killing Luke" policy for the NJO has been extended to things after it. That's a more depressing thought, though. I'll stick with "not really dead, but people think he is".

    It's too early to really judge the work itself, so a couple thoughts on the promo campaign:

    The news that the Twi'lek isn't the bad guy is certainly welcome. It still feels like pandering, but the shirtless Maul parallel may well be true, and this is simply to grab your average person browsing through comics (although what that says about comic-reader demographics, or at least the perception of them, isn't pleasant). Of course, there's the possibility that, and I have seen this said in some forums talking about Legacy, that it would just look crass, like Star Wars has sunk to cheap comic book cliches to sell more (not saying that's what it is, just what it might look like). A note: I'm not judging Dark Horse's marketing ability; that's their business. And I'm not making any conclusions on the content of the thing itself. All I'm giving is my perception of what we've seen. And I'm open to the idea that I might be wrong. After all, a Jedi with a halter top might have looked like just fanservice, but she turned out to be Aayla Secura. It's just the whole presentation that rubs me the wrong way: "Hey guys, you like scantily clad women, right? Well, here's a Star Wars comic book that may have them! Buy it!" She may very well be the strongest female character ever, with the will of Leia and the depth of Kreia, who usually dresses in reasonable clothes and is just doing her laundry right now. It's really just the cover that bugs me. And I know I'm overthinking this. If it increases sales by a lot (as annoying as the implications of that may be), who am I to complain? I'm just slightly worried that it may have the opposite effect on others.

    Most of my interest in this actually comes from the premise, the team, and a few of those notes that have been dropped (like that we haven't seen the bad guy, or that the Empire is actually fighting the Sith). To tell the truth, I think the three promo pieces feel like they're trying too hard. Looking at just them (i.e. not being a member of a Star Wars board and hearing all these extra tidbits) would really give me the wrong impression. Maybe that's for the people who aren't already Star Wars fans, and those who are can look forward to Jon and Jan, the idea of favorite characters and location in the future, and all those other little fan things. Like the KOTOR era, it's the idea of a completely different look at the Star Wars universe that intrigues me here. Not trying to bring down the party here, and I'll say again that despite what I've mentioned, it still does look interesting.
     
  16. Pelranius

    Pelranius Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2003
    The Han cheapshoot of Palpatine was rather cringe worthy, I must admit.

    This sounds very delicious...

    Can't wait for Issue #0.
     
  17. Quiet_Mandalorian

    Quiet_Mandalorian Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2005
    I hypthesis I'll have to disagree with.

    For starters, I think your logic in comparing a modern Italian/average Mandalorian with an ancient Roman/Mandalorian warrior is flawed, as the majority of ancient Romans probably had the same relationship with the men of the legions as the modern Italians have with the members of the Esercito Italiano, i.e. the military was a seperate culture, and ordinary citizens pretty much went about their business, never bothering to acquire any martial training themselves.

    As they're described now, it seems that Mando society could probably be much more accurately compared to that of Medieval Europe, where, despite the need for tradesmen, craftsmen, farmers and others, skill at arms was a prerequisite for virtually everyone, right down to the peasants and including the women, quite often, and to judge from the comments in the RC:TZ thread, those Mandalorian who live in the Mandalore sector itself might be only slightly stronger in numbers than their more nomadic kinsmen spread out across the galaxy, though I'll have to go over it again.[face_thinking]

    That's one of a number of possible interpretations at this point. My own view of events is that, as Karen has said, the Jedi only defeated those few Mandalorians who followed the Mandalore and fought together as a GROUP, rather than their more individualistic compatriots, who still remained numerically formidable and relatively unaffected by Galidraan. The Jedi merely assumed, whether in good faith or otherwise, that they had wiped them out, "all of them", as one of their fellow Force-users once said.

    To put it mildly.
     
  18. Quiet_Mandalorian

    Quiet_Mandalorian Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2005
    [face_laugh]:p [face_laugh] I can imagine that quite easily, for some reason.:p

    Well, I guess you could be right- there's still cause for hope for her.:)
     
  19. Jaster99

    Jaster99 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Aug 30, 2005
    I love it when you misquote me. :p I said "100% Mary Sues." And of course I'm right. :rolleyes: I'm always right... except when I'm wrong. I also said that I have a bad feeling about this.

    Anyway, I may check this series out since it's by Ostrander and Duursema. Will there be any Mandalorians?
     
  20. Quiet_Mandalorian

    Quiet_Mandalorian Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Yes, will there be?[face_thinking]

    Please tell me they're not going to be functioning in the capacity of villains again if there are any.
     
  21. dp4m

    dp4m Also a Narc star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    QUESTION:

    Is Stackpole involved in this project?

    I was thinking about this and it seems strangely similar to the BattleTech reboot whereby pretty much everything the heroes we read about for scores of books was summarily dismissed and overwritten with a crappier galaxy and government.
     
  22. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Yeah-more anti-destany people!

    "Whatever, I personally would have ended the Emperor with Luke and Leia and Anakin on the Eclipse. "

    Good point, being consumed by his own force storm would have been a more fitting end....

    ABout the Mandos: Granted they make good villans. But you have to remember that Mandos don't hold grudges and jedi don't hold grudges, so there should be no reason for them not to work together when the situation calls for.
     
  23. darthsith19

    darthsith19 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 23, 2004
    Wow, I'm excited. I take it Luke'll be dead, then, right? Are you going to mention anything about how he died in this series?

    I like the Twilek Maul like character on the front of issue #0
     
  24. Eddie

    Eddie Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 16, 2001
    Has anyone mentioned R2 and 3PO yet?

    By the time of Legacy R2 has already told the story of Star Wars to the Keeper of the Whills 40 years prior - according to Lucas himself. I wonder if there will be reference to this.
     
  25. Tam_Elgrin

    Tam_Elgrin Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 1, 2004
    I think the general consensus is, however, to ignore anything Lucas says, especially when it's as stupid as that. :p
     
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