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The Official Legacy Series Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Literature' started by jfostrander, Feb 1, 2006.

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  1. jfostrander

    jfostrander Writer: -Legacy -Republic/Jedi/Purge star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 2001
    Group

    Just realized that some of you are waiting on me to go ahead.

    DON'T WAIT ON ME!

    At the rate of expansion of this thread, Legacy 0 could be out before I reach the end of it.<g>

    Seriously, I don't want to INHIBIT discussion. Well, maybe about the Crusades but you've already resolved that.<g>

    And it looks like I'm snowed in today so maybe i WILL get a chance to get a little bit caught up.

    Ganner, let the nice people through, please.

    -- John
     
  2. DarthVengeant

    DarthVengeant Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Having been a SW fan since 1977 and having read about 70 or so of the books, including all of the Post-ROTJ books, as well as most of the comics, I'm going to say this doesn't set well at all with me.

    I will explain:

    For one thing, it closes off the NJO books meaning now they will be hindered to stay and keep to what will become the Legacy series events. Its also in a way a spoiler and almost makes you want to quit reading now that you see everything that has been fought for and died for is pretty much worthless and meaningless. A new Empire, a new Sith...didnt we already have this once before and was defeated with ultimate sacrifice and blood? Is this seeming like a broken record to you too? Have you run out of ideas and just regurgitate whats been done? It all sounds like something from the KOTOR era, NOT post-ROTJ.

    So, now when I read Luke and everyone fighting and contemplating their order and the galaxy ill KNOW that it was for nothing because its all going up in flames to be the same as it was before. It will also ruin pivotal moments in the soon to come post-NJO book series. I wont have any more "awe" inspiring moments because its now ruined with this Legacy nonsense. Yes, I call it nonsense because everything about it looks and reads that way to me. It flat out DOES NOT work. The more I think about it and more, honestly, pissed off I'm getting.

    I can understand bringing Sith back, I wanted that from the get go. But this direction is totally flawed. There doesn't need to be some NEW "Empire, galactic threat" garbage. Why does there ALWAYS have to be some GALACTIC THREAT? Why? The old Republic survived for thousands of years didn't it? Cant you just bring a bad sith group into the fold to rile things up a bit while keeping everything else "normal"? This whole "new threat" is TIRED. Just let the Jedi and Sith have conflict and contemplate the force and leave the rest of the galaxy ALONE. I enjoyed the organic and DIFFERENT Yuuzhan Vong, but this stuff in Legacy is boring and rehashed. It all seems like something a 6yr old thought up to be honest. Ive always seen the Sith coming back as one or two people trying to get revenge on the Jedi for taking them out. I sure don't see a need for some new Empire in the equation, partly because its already been done enough.

    This whole "pirate bounty hunter Skywalker" is just WAY wrong if not ridiculous. Luke when through ALL THAT, all the problems, wars, and death to end up with this...boring han solo bad guy wanna be...as a grandson? We end up with the same crap Luke fought and destroyed his entire life and a degenerate grandson in this new "Legacy". I see no Legacy, just the same old same old with nothing new and inspiring to look forward to. How sad.

    Bottom line, it doesn't fit and it doesn't work. I would value my opinion based on the SW knowledge I have. Based on the fact that I have a HOUSE full of SW items, books, Cd's etc. I am right now doing a music project based completely on the Sith (PM me for more info) as well as the art I do. I'm not being conceited, I just know my SW is all. I know what the SW universe is like and this "Legacy" is an abomination to it and all the SW I have enjoyed since 1977. I only wish I were rich or somehow apart of this "Legacy" project (I live near Dark Horse in Portland, Oregon), because frankly, you need some people knee deep in SW lore, such as myself, and some NEW ideas.

    Hopefully some changes will take place and others will see these flaws, if not, either way I doubt ill read the Legacy series. I will just keep with the NJO books and such, ill just flat out ignore all Ive read about the future of SW, because it looks quite bleak and wrong from what ive read now about Legacy.

    Good luck, and may the TRUE force be with you....

    Darth Vengeant
     
  3. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Bear in mind there is nothing about a galactic threat yet though. There is nothing about a new Sith Empire either.

    If anything, the fact it was crucial enough that the statement on the OS had to be changed because it was misleading strongly points toward there NOT being a galactic threat, as they clearly didn't want people to be getting that idea. Its pretty apparent that this new Empire is actually going to be under attack from whatever (presumably the Sith) so is either 1. unimportant, 2. simply there to get destroyed, or 3. allied with the GFFA against the Sith. There's certainly nothing to say there is a new evil empire ruling the galaxy, or even threatening the galaxy.

    Lets take the LOTF books for a second, as we already know some of the details about it. Let's pretend that Lumiya returned leading a mini-Empire from the Unknown Regions (think something like the Empire of the Hand, but Sith aligned). That would mean they could have posters advertising LOTF saying the same things:

    NEW SITH!
    NEW EMPIRE!
    NEW SKYWALKER! (pretend for a second that Jacen's daughter hadn't been born until LOTF)

    But, we know that the Sith in LOTF (i.e. Lumiya) isn't likely to end up being a galactic threat on the scale of Palpatine, her new Empire also would not be particularly menacing, just like the Empire of the Hand was a new Empire but nothing on the scale of Palpatine's Empire, and lastly, while there would be a new Skywalker (by blood at least; Jacen's daughter), it wouldn't necessarily be repetitive, or in any way an attempt to usurp Luke's position as the top figure in the list of good guys.

    I'm twisting some of the facts of Dark Nest and LOTF a bit but this is a theoretical experiment. The point is: would (and indeed will) LOTF destroy Anakin's achievements in the films? Or Luke's achievements in destroying Palpatine? I know a few people do have issues with it but by large the majority are looking forward to LOTF and don't think its going to ruin anything, other than perhaps raise a few questions over the Chosen One and the fulfilment of the Prophecy. From a marketing point of view though its pure common sense. Hardcore Star Wars fans are most likely going to know what the books are about and either buy them if they want to or not anyway, regardless of the advertisements. Posters and marketing campaigns are not aimed at people like us. They're aimed at the casual Star Wars fan who's seen the movies, is in the book store, and might not be that interested in picking up a Star Wars book but looks at the poster and thinks "oh cool, i want to read it".

    Now, lets imagine a poster advertising LOTF said this:

    LUMIYA RETURNS!
    GALACTIC ALLIANCE UNDER THREAT!
    NEW HAPAN HEIR!

    That wouldn't sell books. It'd certainly be more accurate than the example above but it would be meaningless to people who weren't already fans of Star Wars literature. If you already read the literature you're already likely to know about the new series and want to buy the new books anyway. If you're just a casual fan though you're not going to pick up a book because "LUMIYA RETURNS!".

    Its the same principle with Legacy, though obviously since we currently know hardly anything its not as easy to give examples. Theres nothing saying the new Sith are galactic threat, that there even is a galactic threat, that the new Empire is a threat, or even evil. Movie trailers lie, posters are no different, they're just designed to get you to pick up the book, they're not going to do that with:

    NEW ROGUE FALLANASSI!
    NEW FEDERALIST UNION!
    NEW DURON!

    More original? Yes. Going to sell books? No. "New Sith! New Empire! New Skywalker!" is a lot more sensible, even if it does end up being misleading. The idea of a poster is to get people to buy the book, whether they like or not after they've bought it is irrelivant, all the poster is doing is trying to attract the most interest. Throwing Star Wars buzz words like Skywalker, Sith and Empire around is the best way to do that. While it certainly is totally speculative to make such an observation, if you
     
  4. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Retired Fleet Admiral star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    Something occured to me.

    I have been a little concerned about this new series because I fear that it will just throw out the Galactic Alliance and have it replaced by some new empire or government.

    But, then it occured to me that Randy, Jan, and John have all stated that this new series will not spoil the Legacy of the Force series. If the comic starts out with no Galactic Alliance, then would that not constitute a huge spoiler? Would that not spoil us to the fact that the Alliance is either going to fall in LOTF or sometime after? Yet they promise there will be no major spoilers. So, by that train of though, perhaps there will still in fact be a Alliance.

    It is not a sure thing, but it gives me a bit of hope.

    That is why I have hope that the Alliance will still be around in the new Legacy comic series. They keep saying that there will be no galactic peace, but that does not mean that the Alliance can't still be around as one of the galaxies governments.

    --Adm. Nick
     
  5. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    WHAT IF the Jedi are allied with the new Empire, the Sith are allied with the old Galactic Alliance, and the new threat is something completely different (like the Celestrials)???
     
  6. Lord_Of_Sith

    Lord_Of_Sith Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2005
    Ugh. This sounds like the fan 'virtual sequel trilogy' that was cooked up a few yrs. ago and posted on this site. Very lame ideas here...maybe it's time to let the franchise cool down a bit?
     
  7. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    You know nothing about it -- how can you condemn it already?


    Hey, I heard there's going to be an Indiana Jones 4 -- dude, you can liek so totally tell alredy the plot will be teh suk!!11!
     
  8. Andariel_Halo

    Andariel_Halo Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2005
    I think this idea is a BIG mistake.

    We shouldn't be leaping forward in the Star Wars timeline so damn fast in intervals like this! I say let them come when they come. We went through 35 years from Return of the Jedi to the Dark Nest trilogy in 15 years. If we rush ahead like this, the Star Wars franchise will bleed dry very quickly.

    Also, going forward is not the same as going back. If you suddenly Hyperspace 100 years into the future, you're leaving a whole bunch of people in the dark. We didn't just suddenly blast into the Yuuzhan Vong war one day---it was built up after 10 years of EU books and comics detailing the 21 years between Vector Prime and Return of the Jedi.

    With the Old Republic series, it was thousands of years before the pieces set in stone (ie, the movies and books etc), so the creators were free to dwiddle around all they wanted in it, so long as the Jedi and Republic didn't die out. With this one, we're (the royal we, as in the authors and Lucas and such) are going to be forced to follow a timeline which leads to this, or we'll just ignore it (like we've done occasionally) and render this one obsolete.

    This is just going too far. And this "Cade Skywalker" loser sounds like a pretentious "badass" character for an action-adventure bomb like "Chronicles of Riddick" where the main character isn't very bright, but has big muscles and a rugged look (even Han Solo didn't wear filthy tanktops and tattoos and scars and had some smarts). The typical pirate story of the badass main character hating the universe and being a big jerk. I forsee disaster for this comic series.
     
  9. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    I'm inclined to say they're damned if they do and damned if they don't Nick:

    IF there is an Alliance then fans will complain it means the Alliance survives LOTF so spoiling it.

    IF there isn't one, fans will complain its spoils LOTF's big plot point of how the Alliance falls.

    The only way out of this is to ask: Do you really read SW for a sense of utter peril for the characters? Without which there can be no good story? If so then reading franchise fiction probably isn't for you and you'd be better reading original fantasy/SF/space operas that can deliver this sort of story such as Malazan, Otherland, Confederation Saga and so on.

    JB
     
  10. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    How do you know anything about Cade's intelligence? Why does wearing a dirty tank top make him a bad character? Do you know something I don't, or are you just pulling this pessimism out of your ***? "I foresee disaster . . . " :rolleyes: Come on.
     
  11. Andariel_Halo

    Andariel_Halo Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2005

    w000000t!!! You are my hero! You put how I felt PERFECTLY into words I attempted to make (in my last post).

    Honestly, please, to the authors, I don't mean this to be rude or nasty or anything, but please, stop this. Don't do thi
     
  12. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    You are being rude, whether you mean to or not. The authors have made it clear that there's a lot more to this than what's being shown. You're running down their work and more or less calling them shallow, incompetent Star Wars-killing morons who are out to make things "kewl", without even having seen the finished product. Have you even seen Jan and John's previous work? Have a little faith, and wait for the facts.
     
  13. Andariel_Halo

    Andariel_Halo Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2005
    Take a look at his ratty-ass hair and bulgy muscles and the name "Cade"

    Being a big fan of Star Wars, and knowing the typical formula for the idiot "badass" character, I'd say he fulfills much of those requirements (ie, a simple, easy to pronounce name that sounds cool [like Jayden or Blade or Slade or Slit etc], big muscles and tatoos, and an outfit that shows them off, and a job as a smuggler or pirate or something [ie, see Kyle Katarn, Han Solo, Dash Rendar, etc] and the whole "fallen hero" archetype)

    Name me one non "badass" character in any movie (Ace Ventura excluded) who constantly wore a dirty tanktop. I can name you an evil character fulfilling that already: Otis Firefly from House of 1000 Corpses and The Devil's Rejects. I can also name you a "badass" character fulfilling that: Riddick from Pitch Black and The Chronicles of Riddick.

    I'm pulling this pessimism out of my experience with characters exactly as described as this Cade Skywalker. Not one of them has ever proven themselves otherwise to me [except Han Solo, and even he wasn't that filty-looking].
     
  14. jfostrander

    jfostrander Writer: -Legacy -Republic/Jedi/Purge star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 2001
    Well, let's see.

    I AM reading the back posts but I've also read Darth Vengeant's rant and that could use some words NOW.

    I've heard from a FEW people like him about how LEGACY is going to absolutely RUIN Star Wars and I just wanna say -- I wish I knew earlier that I had that kind of power. I could have hit GL up for some protection money. "Youse has a nice little galaxy here, Mr. Lucas. I should hate to see anyt'ing HAPPEN to it. I mean, things break, don't they? I hate to hafta go and write a new series that would completely destroy everyt'ing youse has done and invalidate everyt'ing your heroes have accoplished. Understand?"

    Darth Vengeant assumes that only HE is steeped enough in SW lore and the fact that Jan and I have worked closely with LFL on this is meaningless.Perhaps so is the fact we've run this past Del Ray and the LotF authors to make sure what we're doing doesn't compromise their series. Or that we're taking into account what happens there and working WITH it.

    He has decided, on the basis of what LITTLE (and i do mean LITTLE) has been shown that LEGACY "will flat out not work". AND that he should have been part of this Legacy project, given that he lives near to Portland and is knee deep in SW toys. AND that everything is regurgitated.

    With one breath he says that the premise will invalidate all of Luke and Co,'s struggles and sacrifice and then, with the next, says having the Sith back would be okay. THAT wouldn't invalidate all of those struggles. He likes that.

    He thinks Cade will bring dishonor to the Skywalker name. Unlike the the first Skywalker, Anakin, aka Darth Vader, who 1) betrays his friends, 2) physically hurts his wife, and c) kills children.

    Darth Vengeant represents that sliver of fans who take what little is said, speculates (wrongly) on what it means, and then decides they don't like what they've invented. They've made up their facts and they've made up their minds; they've taken a stand, and they will not be swayed by any mundane thing such as . . .oh . . .reality and facts.

    FACTS. You know there are Sith -- and you don't know anything MORE than that. There is a new Empire -- but what shape is it? Whose Empire? How did it come about? You don't know. Cade was trained as a Jedi and worked for the space pirate Rav. It doesn't say that, when you encounter him, he is STILL a pirate. You know that Cade does not use the name "Skywalker" and conceals he was ever a Jedi. You don't know how or why.

    About a page or so ago, I said that I wouldn't comment on something I hadn't read because it wouldn't be right. It wouldn't be fair.

    Darth Vengeant, how about I get the same courtesy?

    -- Ostrander

    PS Apologies to the rest of you. I do like the fans. Honest.

    EDIT
    Let's add a couple more to the mix now in the time it has taken to put THIS message together. Some points:
    1) Cade HAS to be a generic "badass" based on other people's work you've seen. Not mine. Other people's. Any of you critics actually read anything I've written?
    2) Cade isn't right because he wears a dirty tank top. Han Solo was described as "scruffy". For back then, he was "scruffy". For today, you have to actually LOOK "scruffy", grungy, to visually convey that concept. Different time, different look.
    3) LEGACY, if it is done at all, should be done farther in the future. Nope. We debated very carefullyabout WHEN it is placed and the reasons for it will eventually emerge.
    4) The assumption, or PRESUMPTION, that Jan and I have not really thought this through or don't know our Star Wars. That's underlying so much of the negative posts today and it's just flat out WRONG. You may not LIKE where we're going but do NOT assume that we haven't thought and debated this a lot.

    I don't mind if someone doesn't like my work when they've seen it; not everything works for everyone. That's fine. I don't even mind if people say LEGACY isn't something that they feel like sampling. Okay. But this other stuff is so much poodoo.
     
  15. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Could it be they haven't proven themselves because you haven't let them? You have an awful lot of contempt for these people. What sort of charactes do you want then? Luke Skywalker III, Jedi Accountant? The galaxy is full of badasses. They happen to be the kinds who get things done. Get used to it.
     
  16. snelson

    snelson Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 21, 2005

    that's gross ghost the jedi would never do that[face_sick]
     
  17. sabarte

    sabarte Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2005
    I want to see a Dark Accountant of the Sith sometime >.>
     
  18. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    No need to apologize, John. You've been taking an awful lot of crap from a bunch of morons who think they know better than anyone else, based on zippo information. I understand your frustration, and if I can speak for the rest of the fans, they do too.


    You know what, folks? If this is coming out, it means it's Lucas-approved. Yes, that's right -- Lucas-approved. So rethink that "destroy what SW is" junk. It's being overseen by the hard-working editors of DH. So rethink that "it's churned-out dreck" whining. It's been cleared with DR, so rethink that "it'll screw up LOTF" nonsense. It's being written by the top name in Star Wars comics, so rethink that "the story is recycled weak garbage" BS. It's in good hands.
     
  19. Jan_Duursema

    Jan_Duursema Comic Artist: -AOTC -Legacy -Republic star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    May 15, 2001
    I've got one small piece to say on the name 'Cade'. While we were looking to name this character, my thinking was that it should be a name we could almost hear Aunt Beru calling--like--"Luuuke...Luke!" Cade seemed to be that kind of name.

    One more thing to those who think Legacy will spoil NJO or LotF. There is 100 years between LotF and Legacy. Have things changed drastically in 100 years here on earth? Of course they have. Could anyone have logically anticipated the changes that would occur? Of course not. Given that, don't you think there is a lot of room for change to occur in that 100 year timeframe from the LotF books to Legacy? Of course there are.
     
  20. jfostrander

    jfostrander Writer: -Legacy -Republic/Jedi/Purge star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 2001
    Andariel Holo contributes:

    >>We shouldn't be leaping forward in the Star Wars timeline so damn fast in intervals like this!. . . We didn't just suddenly blast into the Yuuzhan Vong war one day---it was built up after 10 years of EU books and comics detailing the 21 years between Vector Prime and Return of the Jedi. <<

    Let's go back to ANH, Episode 4, aka the first SW movie made. You're thrown into the middle of something ongoing with characters that you don't yet know. Am I wrong to assume that you liked that story a little? Or should we have come into it gradually?

    There is more than one way to tell a story. You have the way you would do it. Okay. I have mine. Am I right and you're wrong? Not necessarily. It depends on the story being told, who is telling it, and what you're trying to achieve. We're aiming at that same sense of discovery as when you first discovered SW. We're not retelling that story but we ARE looking for that kind of excitement. Will we achieve it? Depends to be seen. NEITHER you or I know that yet. I've been writing professionally for over 20 years and writing SW for the last five. I'm using that knowledge and experience to craft as fine a SW story as I can. I've had some success in the past.

    All I ask from you and the other fans -- approach it with an open mind. Can you do that? Are you WILLING to do that? Or is the opinion you've already made etched in stone?

    -- Ostrander
     
  21. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    This has got me thinking, there's 2 ways this could have gone:

    John O ends up working on Legacy despite desperately not wanting to, knowing he'll be crucified by the fans but Mr Lucas made him an offer he couldn't refuse, either his signature or his brains were going to be on the Legacy contract.

    John O gets the job of working on Legacy and Lucas goes all Michael Corleone on him, as John O is garrotted in his car, after making above threats to Mr Lucas.

    JB
     
  22. snelson

    snelson Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 21, 2005
    your'e very mean john o seems like a very nice man he's a good writer.
     
  23. Andariel_Halo

    Andariel_Halo Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2005
    A subject bringing up this much controversy shouldn't be bludgeoning its way into the SW galaxy. Even the prequels had stuff to offer and didn't completely destroy how we viewed the original trilogy (changed it a bit, but never destroyed it)

    Star Wars isn't ready for this kind of change. It is WAY too fast in the making, and the Star Wars galaxy is simply not ready for it. We should be staying away from this period until we've filled in the enormous gap between the Dark Nest trilogy and this. This gap isn't just the menial 3 years between 4 and 5, or the 10 years between 1 and 2, which were chronicled well-enough by Jude Watson for Scholastic, and the LucasBook novels Rogue Planet and The Approaching Storm. This is 100 years in a period of time in the Star Wars galaxy when change is occuring as rapidly as it is today! The New Republic has collapsed, and the Galactic Alliance has just learned that the Jedi will not be serving them the way they served the Old Republic. Why are we now speeding ahead 100 years, into a time of some vague new Empire, with the heir of the Skywalker legend being some scraggly nothing pirate and the galaxy suddenly being in the same situation it was after Revenge of the Sith? It ruins the continuity for the upcoming EU in novels and comics.
     
  24. wild_karrde

    wild_karrde Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 8, 1999
    Yep, sorry, no matter what you or anyone else says I'm not going to change my mind. This series will rock and there's nothing you can do or say to make me feel different. So put that in your pipe and smoke it!

    How so? Please explain. Have you read both the LotF novels and the LEGACY comics and noticed something that got by the LFL continuity editors?

    You mean like:
    - Chewie's death
    - Luke going to the dark side
    - all of the prequels
    - etc etc etc

    There are actually very few people upset about this. Most of the posting in here has been supportive, or at least curious. Very few people are attacking it and saying "dis is teh suk!" Why don't you actually wait until it comes out and read it before you form an uninformed opinion?
     
  25. Quiet_Mandalorian

    Quiet_Mandalorian Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2005
    I think it might have something to do with his face as well, which I find rather off-putting myself, but still, judgement properly should be reserved until the final product can be reviewed, which I'm sure it will be to glowing praise.:)
     
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