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The Official Legacy Series Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Literature' started by jfostrander, Feb 1, 2006.

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  1. Rouge77

    Rouge77 Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 11, 2005
    Never said he was Ben's though. Actually, explicitly did not confirm his descent came from Ben IIRC

    Probably just teasing people. Or maybe Del Rey does a Superman to Luke. Kills him off and clones him, and Cade is the son of a Luke´s clone! *Shudders* Please, don´t do that...[face_praying]
     
  2. sabarte

    sabarte Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Yeah, sometimes I think "screwing with the fans' heads" is part of Dark Horse's mission statement. But I love them anyway [:D]
     
  3. Master_Shan

    Master_Shan Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 19, 2005
    any number of things could happen really....luke COULD have another kid. Its not unheard of. One of the ladies could have a bastard son. One of the two sith sentinals luke created from himself could have fathered a kid...maybe. They are skywalkers, and as of yet unaccounted for. And lets not forget that there are 3 skywalker lines now, each with as much anakin mojo as the next. Its entirely possible that after two of the three lines got wiped out one of which being the skywalkers, that another of anakins decendents adopted the last name :: out of respect of the root family, or because they had to become a rallying point:: this probably would not be a solo mind u, because that names carries its on weight being the first branch and having big names in it early on...but who knows what last names will pop up in the skywalker clan after 100 years.

    So yea, assuming that Cade is Ben's son or grandson ::more likely:: IS a major assumption giving the span of time between their eras.
     
  4. Joser_Kyind

    Joser_Kyind Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 10, 2005
    The Sentinal idea wouldn't work. For one, their asexual. Secondly, they have no will of their own and are completely under the control of their creator. Lastly, they most likely died on Byss.
     
  5. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002

    If you've read Memories of Ice of the Malazan series, you'll understand why that Ben is heaps slicker. He takes on the deities themselves; he blackmails Death himself! [face_laugh]
     
  6. Grand Admiral Wettengel

    Grand Admiral Wettengel Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2000
    Appealing to "popular" culture? Ugh.

    Its only a matter of time before Paris Hilton bimbos invade the GFFA. Then we can all join 3PO in screaming "We're doomed!"

    Can't the GFFA have its own unique culture without any connections to the crap Hollywood churns out whether its generic, formulaic movies, insipid reality shows or obnoxious personalities starring in these productions?

    But then Lucas wanted to have a blasted Boy Band make cameos. Advice for George: Do not put anything in your movies in an effort to curry favor with your kids.

    If you wanted real originality: all Skywalkers are DEAD. D-E-A-D. But now we get another Skywalker being yet another new hope for the galaxy based upon the spin of this promo.

    All this full-circle nonsense. Where did this idea come from? Lucas? Shapiro and her DR flunkies? LFL? I can think of nothing more that screams "rip-off," "rehash" and "we're all out of ideas" than to proudly announce this notion of everything coming full circle.

    Has Lucas been babbling too much about that mythology crap again? My biggest problem with the mythology comes from the fact that myth is cyclic, aka repetitive. This is why I couldn't stand all this prophecy nonsense in the PT--was it really necessary? Does it add anything to the saga? Just Georgie boy being lazy--makes me wonder if he ever truly, truly wanted to make the PT.
     
  7. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Then how do you explain Orinda?
     
  8. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002

    I believe Orinda was more during the Imperial's Adumar bombardment period. That's around 3yrs till Shield of Lies, 13yrs after Endor. Ben-Kilh-Nahm's holo looks okay.
     
  9. HappyBob

    HappyBob Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 7, 2002
    Somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed! Come on, turn that frown upside down and look on the bright side!

    I honestly can't see your logic there. Firstly, wiping out the Skywalker line would cheapen Luke's legacy far more than a new Sith Order ever could (and frankly, I think even that argument's pretty silly). It would be morbid and brave, certainly, but it would also provoke unnecessary outrage, ill-advised mass fan boycots, and so on.

    It would also be somewhat pointless. Having a Skywalker in a story doesn't limit it by any means. He shares a last name and some Jedi skills, but he's a different person. Nobody's expecting you to follow exactly the same life path as your great-great-grandfather...

    And it seems to me that you're jumping to conclusions. For smeg's sake, we know next to nothing about this series. Who said he was a new hope? The fact that he probably will be is irrelevant. This is an entirely new time period, so what's to stop young Cade getting killed off in issue two?

    This is (more or less) as original as Star Wars can get whilst still being Star Wars, and by a fantastic writer at that. We have a whole new time period almost entierly free of limitation, and you're suggesting it's not original because of one familiar surname?

    Oh well, your loss.
     
  10. Grand Admiral Wettengel

    Grand Admiral Wettengel Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2000
    Its just that based upon the promo, this sounds like profic that is going to be a really bad fanfic.

    And "great" writers are all in the eye of the beholder. My feelings on some great lietrary "icons" is that they were pathetic hacks, such as Dickens, Melville--and interestingly enough the critics of the time saw their work as crap. There is no objectivity involved in measuring artistic "greatness"--its all subjective opinion.

    Here's another one: when it came to painting Picasso had the mentality of a two-year-old.
     
  11. jfostrander

    jfostrander Writer: -Legacy -Republic/Jedi/Purge star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 2001
    Grand Admiral Wettengel:æ
    >>Appealing to "popular" culture? Ugh.

    Its only a matter of time before Paris Hilton bimbos invade the GFFA. Then we can all join 3PO in screaming "We're doomed!"

    Can't the GFFA have its own unique culture without any connections to the crap Hollywood churns out whether its generic, formulaic movies, insipid reality shows or obnoxious personalities starring in these productions?

    But then Lucas wanted to have a blasted Boy Band make cameos. Advice for George: Do not put anything in your movies in an effort to curry favor with your kids.

    If you wanted real originality: all Skywalkers are DEAD. D-E-A-D. But now we get another Skywalker being yet another new hope for the galaxy based upon the spin of this promo.

    All this full-circle nonsense. Where did this idea come from? Lucas? Shapiro and her DR flunkies? LFL? I can think of nothing more that screams "rip-off," "rehash" and "we're all out of ideas" than to proudly announce this notion of everything coming full circle.

    Has Lucas been babbling too much about that mythology crap again? My biggest problem with the mythology comes from the fact that myth is cyclic, aka repetitive. This is why I couldn't stand all this prophecy nonsense in the PT--was it really necessary? Does it add anything to the saga? Just Georgie boy being lazy--makes me wonder if he ever truly, truly wanted to make the PT.<<

    Questions, I understand. Doubts, not unreasonable. Snide gets old really fast.

    The idea for LEGACY did not come from Lucas or Shelly Shapiro or her "flunkies". (Remember what I said about snide? This is one of those snide moments.) Randy and I were talking and I forget which one of us proposed it first; as Jan has said elsewhere, she needed to be sold on it initially. It was proposed to LFL and then shown to Shelly Shapiro so we could co-ordinate with LotF. It's a shared universe and we try to be reasonably consistent.

    Lucas wasn't "babbling about mythology" again. I happen to be into mythology myself and i regard SW as modern mythology. It's not a question whether or not the events are cyclic; it's what you DO with them. Certain elements are going to crop up, not only because it's myth but because it's SW. We're not giving the readers any characters that they know (and, no, you don't know Cade yet; everything has been assumption based on what LITTLE you've seen) and that's going to be a tough sell as it is. There are going to be elements in there to make it SW. SW is epic; it needs to have an epic background, IMO.

    LEGACY is not only the TITLE of the series, it's also the THEME.

    I don't recall hearing that anyone was considering putting Paris Hilton into SW in any form. That's one thing that makes me crazy about some fans; they invent something and then bitterly denounce it. If you're going to have a fantasy, why not one that you enjoy?!

    You complain about "generic, formulaic movies, insipid reality shows or obnoxious personalities starring in these productions" slipping into the GFFA -- WHAT?! Where is that supposedly happening? Oh, wait -- according to some, Cade looks like Steve Tyler (no, wait -- its' Billy Idol) and so the assumption is made THAT'S who he is based on. Is THAT you're referring to? Although where the "reality shows" come in, I don't know. (For the record -- in designing the character I never once heard Jan refer to either Steve Tyler or Billy Idol.)

    Also, I don't recall seeing any "boy bands" in any of the SW movies. I suppose if GL HAD wanted them in there, they WOULD have been in there. I don't recall him needing anyone's permission. I'd like to point out that SW really is GL's sandbox. His creation. I get to play in it which is cool. I doubt that he needs to "curry his children's favor" that way; that is a massive assumption on your part. Remember, what I said about "snide"? Hint: this was snide, too. You make massive assumptions about him (i.e. he's lazy and maybe he didn't realy WANT to make the PT -- which, given how much time and effort he had to put into them, really is kind of silly)
     
  12. jfostrander

    jfostrander Writer: -Legacy -Republic/Jedi/Purge star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 2001
    >>And "great" writers are all in the eye of the beholder. My feelings on some great lietrary "icons" is that they were pathetic hacks, such as Dickens, Melville--and interestingly enough the critics of the time saw their work as crap. There is no objectivity involved in measuring artistic "greatness"--its all subjective opinion.

    >>Here's another one: when it came to painting Picasso had the mentality of a two-year-old. <<

    Actually, it's not subjective opinion. These writers have stood the test of time. If anyone it remembers the "critics of the time" is because they made idiots of themselves. Somewhat like you're doing now. They have been read and enjoyed and influenced people for a long, long time. BTW, many in Shakespeare's time felt he was to "popular" to be any good.

    Anyone can have an opinion. There's no trick to that. Having an INFORMED opinion that actually means something -- that's the trick and you haven't learned it yet.

    How old are you?

    -- Ostrander
     
  13. Rohniss

    Rohniss Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 9, 2005
    GAW did make one point I totally agree with.. quite frankly, im tired of the Skywalkers.. TIRED TIRED TIRED. (not bashing you john/jan) out of everything in the universe.. why must the characters revolve around one family.. Now im most Epics, the people that save the day wind up quite dead..
     
  14. jfostrander

    jfostrander Writer: -Legacy -Republic/Jedi/Purge star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 2001
    I understand you're feeling that way but from the PT onwards, SW really has been about the Skywalkers, hasn't it? It gives us linkage to the rest of the material. And Cade isn't Anakin, Luke OR Ben. It also all ties into the title/theme -- LEGACY.

    FYI -- there's also a lot of other characters and they'll all have stories to tell. There will be stories that don't focus on Cade. Promise. But he IS our central character and we've reasons for that. It's not just laziness or because we couldn't think of anything else. We have reasons and they'll gradually show up.

    Fair enough?

    -- John
     
  15. masterskywalker

    masterskywalker Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2001
    Star Wars is space opera, and that's not going to change. Everyone is expecting these poor folks to reinvent the wheel. You don't make a sequel to the Oddessy better by introducing all the latest writing tricks and 'poppy' fads. You do it by staying true to the source material, and if anyone can do that, It's John and Jan (Picking up your 'Spectre' run by the way John! :D) [face_blush] ).

    Star Wars IS Myth. It's that simple. Complaining about it would be to cut off what made it great in the first place.

    I could easily bash Star Wars by saying it's nothing but a Tolkien rip off, or Hidden Fortress rip off, and bemoan the lack of origionality till I die. That doesn't change the fact it's great *because* it follows conventions.

    It's easy to talk smack, I don't see any brilliant story ideas coming from you guys.

    Suggestions of "if you don't like it, don't read it" are verboten here. We're all here because we like the EU...
     
  16. Rohniss

    Rohniss Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 9, 2005
    Exactly John, from the PT onwards the story HAS revolved around the Skywalkers.. before that it revolved around Qel-Droma and the Sunriders.. other people have made just as big of contributions as they have.. and we probally havent even heard of some of the people.. yet.. I just wanted other peoples stories told as well, without dependance on a Skywalker.. now, what you said about other characters sounds exactly what im looking for.

    Just so you know, as Ive said many a time before.. I think you and Jan are tops, and will definately be buying the series.. probally not in single issue though.. a TPB man myself... although I did break my general no single issue rule for your final Republic issues.

    And no John, I wasnt implying that you were a "hack" using a Skywalker as a "crutch".. I said some authors do.. and if you got that impression, sorry.

    MS: your suggestion of me to "move on to something else" simply because I dislike the central focus of the current EU bieng the Skywalker brood, thats laughable.. theres plenty of other stuff that contain them in quite tolerable doses.. The entire universe isnt gonna fall apart just because Skywalkers dont exist.. as long as we have good storytellers.
     
  17. jfostrander

    jfostrander Writer: -Legacy -Republic/Jedi/Purge star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 2001
    Rohniss, I got no problem with you. I appreciate your point although we ARE using a Skywalker. You have a reasonable argument and made it like an adult. and you're willing to wait and see, i think. You'll probably hear anough about the individual LEGACY issues as they come out to decide if you want to try the TPB when it comes out.

    All the best

    -- John
     
  18. jfostrander

    jfostrander Writer: -Legacy -Republic/Jedi/Purge star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 2001
    masterskywalker -- thanks for the support. So that you know, I don't really have a problem with what Rohniss is saying. I think Rohniss and I have always gotten on alright in the past. I DO have a problem with Master Shan (and perhaps that's who you were really directing your comment to?) -- not for his POV but his manner.

    I think talk both pro AND con for Legacy is a good thing; it indicates interest in SW and the series> If no one cared, that would be a problem, wouldn't it?<g>

    "Hey, group -- we're doing this nifty new series called Legacy!"

    Deafening Silence.

    <g>

    See what I mean? Talk is good.

    -- John
     
  19. jedimaster203

    jedimaster203 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 1999
    *applaud's John's defense of LEGACY*

    Seriously guys, stop naysaying. I think this is going to be great. You're not even giving it a chance to do anything.

    Besides, if it sucks, we can retcon it to Infinities ;)

    John, Jan: Keep on rockin' on. I'll be buying Legacy.
     
  20. Grand Admiral Wettengel

    Grand Admiral Wettengel Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2000
    Thank you for insulting my intelligence, John. So nice to know you're such a professional.

    Do you even know how academia operates? PhDs are essentially paper mills, which is a double-edged sword depending on the discipline. A dissertation must be a work of original scholarship, and not all disciplines are as rigirously demanding in terms of scholarship. To call all the departments on college and university campuses "scholarly" is pushing it as far as I'm concerned. Anything dealing with the fine, practical or performing arts is not scholarship--since knowing the latest dances or the history of a particular dance doesn't help man improve his condition or acheive a better understanding of the world, does it? Its a discipline purely for otherwise fools to get good jobs. You pasint Campbell soup cans on canvas and get hailed as a genius. Geniuses invent new ways of looking at things, of interpreting the world and man's relationship to it.

    I would apply the word "genius" to Hitler before I would apply it to any author of a work of fiction, unless they happen to define a new genre, such as Poe and the detective story. Certainly, Hitler is the Dark Side of genius--and Kershaw speaks of him in terms of "negative greatness"--but there is no doubting that he was one of the Great Men of history, albeit for reasons of infamy and not fame.

    Let me take this a bit more to relate my deepest fears about Legacy. I'm interested in the EU to read about the ongoing political and military history of the GFFA, not to read about some multi-generational biography about one family and all the "little people" orbiting around them.

    It isn't like we're getting ready on earth for World War VIII in which the evil Neo-Neo-Nazis of the Tenth Reich, under the leadership of the malevolenet Adolf Schickelgruber (Hitler's original surname, before his father changed it to Heidler/Hitler) IV are attempting to once again destroy world Jewry and conquer the world? With a slogan of: "This time we're gonna win!" And the only hope for the world is to find the descendants of FDR and Churchill which means traveling to the Hyde Park system to commune with FDRs ashes? Since Hyde Park was raised to the ground when the Neo-Nazi's of the Fifth Reich--under the leadership of Adolf Hitler II--invaded New York and raized the entire town to the ground ala Lidice?

    I have another post all typed up at home, but I'm running into problems posting it. I'll try reposting it when I get home after going to the bank and getting payment out for my "new" refurbished laptop.
     
  21. wild_karrde

    wild_karrde Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 8, 1999
    I've been posting on this site for about 6.5 years (me = no life) and it still amazes me how people on the Internet (not just this site, but the entire Internet) are so quick to condemn something that they know nothing about. It truely amazes me every time I see it. It seems like some people go online just to find things to talk trash about (see: AintItCool.com). If you don't like it, that's cool, but is it really necessary to scream at the top of your lungs how much something you know nothing about is going to suck just because you don't feel like waiting for it to come out? I mean, what's the point?



    Back on topic - interesting to know that Cade is indeed going to be the main charater. I would have liked it if he were just a supporting character for a while since Skywalkers are usually the center of attention and it would have been an interesting twist, but I don't have a problem with him being the focus. And I don't doubt that there will be others taking the spotlight after so many different characters had that chance in Republic (Ki-Adi-Mundi, Quinlan, Aayla, Obi-Wan, Anakin, YOSHI!, the sweet freakin' hat, etc)

    Can't wait until next month when we get a solicitation for the first issue ...
     
  22. Rohniss

    Rohniss Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 9, 2005


    Back on topic - interesting to know that Cade is indeed going to be the main charater. I would have liked it if he were just a supporting character for a while since Skywalkers are usually the center of attention and it would have been an interesting twist, but I don't have a problem with him being the focus. And I don't doubt that there will be others taking the spotlight after so many different characters had that chance in Republic (Ki-Adi-Mundi, Quinlan, Aayla, Obi-Wan, Anakin, YOSHI!, the sweet freakin' hat, etc)



    What I was trying to say but wasnt getting it across very well thanks W_K.


    Yeah, when is the HAT going to show up... Mandalorian/Pirate/Jedi/Skywalker with a HAT.. its the end for the Sith before it even got started... unless Darth Maulya finds it first..
     
  23. wild_karrde

    wild_karrde Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 8, 1999

    Um, you just described the SW saga: multi-generational biography about one family and all the "little people" orbiting around them.
     
  24. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Greek Mythology has always been widely popular even though nearly all the characters are related in one way or another, most of the heroes are the great-great-great-great-great-grandsons of one of the other heroes, or in some way related by means of one of the many gods bloodlines (who are also all related).

    Did having everyone related hurt Greek mythology?

    Or, to be completely realistic for a change, people write comics to make money. Pure and simple. If it wasn't going to make money Lucas wouldn't help finance it, thats for sure. Plus, while I'm sure the authors and artists enjoy what they do, they also need to put food on the table. The fact of the matter is that at the end of the day they're going to sell the most by putting the Skywalker name on it, something that most fans can relate to.

    If you want to read a sci-fi story about non-Skywalkers there are dozens and dozens of other sci-fi novels and comic strips available. Why would you read Star Wars when you can read those for your sci-fi fix?

    Yes, "because I like Star Wars" is an answer, but the number of people who would read a series just because it is based in the Star Wars galaxy even if it had very little familiarity to the galaxy they know from the films is very small. It simply wouldn't be profitable to target such a small audience.

    And, no profits, means no comics. Or, even worse, a cancellation in the middle of a series.

    If you want examples of this I suggest looking at some of the Clone Wars novels, Shatterpoint for example recieved largely positive reviews by those who read it, being considered one of the more intelligent and better written novels set during the Clone Wars, however it also had much lower sales than the books with Ewan McGregor and Hayden Christensen on the front. And at least Shatterpoint still had Sam Jackson going for it, I dread to think how few people picked up the MedStar duology, even I, being the hardcore Star Wars nerd that I am, left it until long after it had been released as it simply didn't have the immediate appeal of something I could relate to straight off.

    Be glad they're doing something that will appeal to a wide audience of Star Wars fans, because if they started doing things that lose money we wouldn't be seeing any more Star Wars comics at all.
     
  25. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    >> Also, I don't recall seeing any "boy bands" in any of the SW movies<<

    Actually, IIRC, NSYNC did film cameos as Jedi for AOTC, but they are either so much in the background that you can't identify them, or their footage just happened to not be used like a bunch of other secondary arena footage they shot (like most of the stuff you can see in the Control Ship Raid deleted scene on Hyperspace).
     
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