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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Rogue One The Official "List Your Complaints about Rogue One" Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Anthology' started by BretHart, Dec 15, 2016.

  1. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    As usual, this thread continues to demonstrate that RO actually contains nothing to complain about. :p
     
  2. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    I think complaining about Rogue One in the Rogue One complaints thread is a bannable offense.
     
  3. Nom von Anor

    Nom von Anor Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 7, 2012
    There's very little to complain about. I wasn't a big fan of the way the Star Destroyer pushed by the Hammerhead Corvette cut through the second Star Destroyer so easily, like a knife through butter.

    And I would like it better if we got a clear idea about Admiral Raddus' fate on screen.

    And, uh... * tries very hard to find something to grumble about * (to himself: Are we blind?! Deploy the complaints!)

    Crap, I love this movie so much.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2024
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  4. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    I think that CGI effect, a short moment where an X-wing blows up an AT-AT and it rips apart like paper, and when the Death Troopers land with their ship on the beach, are the only FX that needed more work or should’ve been executed differently.

    Oh My God, I’m so sorry. Mods, feel free to ban me, if you deem it necessary. I deserve it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2024
  5. evilchumlee

    evilchumlee Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2023
    Going to echo some... there's little to complain about.

    I can nitpick some things. One thing that stood out as the lack of aliens in the rebel assault on Scarif. It's not a big deal, just something I noticed.

    They got alittle too ballsy with Tarkin. I loved his inclusion and it was surprisingly well done but... they probably should have cut it on the closeups and stuff. Keep him alittle further away, in a more shadowed area, etc. The technology wasn't quite there to just drop in him like a normal character.

    Vader was alittle too quippy.

    That's about it.
     
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  6. Happy Sando

    Happy Sando Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 23, 2023
    Yeah, whilst I personally dislike the plot point of making Rebels cold-blooded murderers, I can step back and see how major parts of the movie don't work without that specific contrivance, so wouldn't really shout it from the rooftops as a complaint. More just a weak grumble.
     
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  7. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    But there were two aliens in that crew, Pao and Bistan. Or Big Mouth and Monkey Man, if we’re using an older form of nomenclature.
     
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  8. evilchumlee

    evilchumlee Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2023
    I think that's a good thing. While at the top most level, Star Wars is a good vs. evil story, when digging down into the nitty gritty I think shades of gray are more interesting.

    Yes, Rebels = Good, Empire = Bad.

    BUT... it's overall much more interesting when we have Bad Rebels and Good Imperials, or at the very least, misguided and/or naïve Imperials.

    I've always been drawn to the scant depictions of Imperials doing things for reasons other than "Mustache Twirling Evil". I remember a fan film where Stormtroopers are deploying and they're talking amongst themselves prior to landing, and asking about why they joined up. Eventually one says something along the lines of "My brother was stationed on the Death Star." and it gives a deeper meaning to the war going on.

    There was a legends story somewhere along the way of a dude on an Imperial world who was just minding his business when a rebel attack killed his family and such, and it radicalized him into an Imperial.

    Or even just probably the most common... just a regular person who lives somewhere unimportant and only really gets the Imperial propaganda, doesn't know how bad the Empire actually is, and has been conditioned into thinking it's actually good, like an Iden Versio. There's a part in the novelization where she's on the death star when Alderaan gets blown away and she kind thinks "Was that right? That doesn't seem right.", but then justifies to herself by thinking the entire planet had fallen to the rebels and there was no other way to root them all out, and despite all the lives lost, it was actually saving many more by (hopefully) ending the war.

    On the flip... war is hell, and even if the Rebels are fighting for a good cause against almost literal Space Satan, the very nature of an insurgency is going to result in some questionable actions taking place. And lets be real, something like the Rebel Alliance is going to attract some unsavory types... people who just want to kill.

    There's room in Star Wars for all of this. We can have the Lawful Good Jedi vs. the Chaotic Evil Sith in a very clear, black/white, good/bad scenario. We can also have a more nuanced, human approach underneath all of that.
     
  9. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Your fate is in @TCF-1138 's hands.
     
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  10. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Anthology/Fan Films/NSA Mod & Ewok Enthusiast star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
  11. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    It also demonstrates, to me, that doing the right thing is often very difficult, with difficult choices at every turn, as opposed to fun weekend with friends where you get to hang out and then quickly shoot down a planet-killing superweapon, no big deal. There's room for the latter (I love A New Hope, in part due to that quality), but I think there's a real need and value to the former, which is what Rogue One gives us.
     
  12. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    [​IMG]
     
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  13. evilchumlee

    evilchumlee Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2023
    Yes, this absolutely.

    It should often be noted that sometimes, "the right thing" is always super apparent and there are alot of factors that could lead someone to make a decision that they absolutely think is the right thing, but in another context might be the wrong thing.

    Sometimes, even the "right thing" isn't always the... "best thing"? I can take the Iden Version Death Star example here, but maybe modify a bit.

    I grew up with the Empire. It's what I know. I've been fed Imperial propaganda my whole life. But also I can see that the Empire does terrible things. I can also see that the Empire is so incredibly powerful and massive that there's not really much that can be done about it. I could go throw my life away and take pot shots at Star Destroyers, resulting in a retaliatory strike by the Empire killing millions. OR, I can kind of accept the situation and maybe do what I can to help minimize the deaths. The unfortunate answer in that situation may actually be... eradicate the rebellion. Not because i'm loyal to the Empire and believe in it, but because the rebels continually poking the Empire results in even more death.

    Is destroying Alderaan the right thing to do? Absolutely not. From the perspective of an Average Joe Imperial, might it make sense that in the long run it's going to save lives by cutting off a major source of supplies for the rebellion? Maybe. I mean, i'm American. We're the only nation to have used nuclear weapons in war. Using those terrible weapons may have actually saved many more lives in the long run.

    Now I don't want glorify fascists, so I don't exactly want stories from the perspective of staunch Imperial loyalist who wants to kill all the filthy aliens in the Empire and portray him as being an awesome guy with awesome ideas. That's not what I want at all. I would love to see more stories about a conflicted Imperial who is torn between loyalties to his nation and what he thinks is the right thing to do.
     
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  14. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    I can only think of one thing to complain about...

    ... that we won't see the awesome cast ever again.

    chuckles
     
  15. Happy Sando

    Happy Sando Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 23, 2023
    Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm totally with you. I wrote my previous post in a hurry, because I was specifically referring to Rogue One itself, and didn't make that clear. I should've said that I personally dislike the plot point of making Rebels cold-blooded murderers "when crammed into this already-crowded story" and apologise for triggering such a lengthy reply (even though it was enjoyable to read and agree with, so cheers for that)!

    Because of the sensitivity of presenting such moral complexity in what had been (and still largely is) a family-friendly franchise, I think it's vital to give proper care and attention to addressing and exploring the concept, to ensure that there's no room for mixed messages. Rogue One had so much else going on, and was doing such a brilliant job spinning all of its plates that I felt that its only shortcoming was to gloss over a possible perception that "murder of an injured, sobbing, panic-stricken ally is okay when you're a goodie" without showing, or even acknowledging, the root causes and wider repercussions. I get that Rogue One was (and again, still is) part of an ever-expanding story, but by itself, in relative isolation, that small component didn't quite hit the mark for me.

    Bizarrely enough, Rebels (that Disney XD kids' show) does this far more effectively with its Saw Gerrera episodes, following on from The Clone Wars. I'd also point to one of my all-time favourite Imperial characters, Varko Grey, who can be found in the flight simulator game Star Wars: Squadrons. Two instances where you wouldn't necessarily expect to find such mature nuance, but perhaps where a longer run time allows such questions and themes room to breathe.

    Iden Versio's a good shout, too. People give her a rough time because Battlefront II promised "an Imperial perspective" (the very thing we both enjoy) and then delivered on that for all of ten minutes, but her character is still pretty well-written.

    Ultimately, Rogue One is a two-hour action movie. It can't possibly succeed at representing every moral dimension of war before its credits roll.

    But I still respect it for trying, though!
     
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  16. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Actually, Diego Luna, Genevieve O'Reilly, Forest Whitaker, and Duncan Pow came back for Andor. So your only criticism is dead. You have no criticisms! Rogue One wins again.
    I thought it was very clear, in Rogue One, that Cassian's action at the start was immoral, not least as his arc in the story is going from an unquestioning following of orders to following his own conscience. He refuses to pull the trigger to kill Galen, and then, he joins Jyn's group despite the decision of the Alliance Council. It's a crystal clear progression that addresses your concerns.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2024
  17. Watcherwithin

    Watcherwithin Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2017
    If he didn’t kill that guy and he fell into enemy hands and gave in would it have seemed immoral in hindsight? Unlike the Galen situation cassian wasn’t being ordered to kill, he was making the utilitarian choice
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2024
  18. evilchumlee

    evilchumlee Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2023
    That was my long-winded point in a succinct nutshell.

    Sometimes the right thing to do isn't always the right thing to do.

    And this is why good and evil can be shades of gray... there's a very fine line when making the decision of how to act and to, or not to, do.
     
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  19. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Sure, that’s a perfectly justifiable perspective to take. But when you look at Cassian’s character arc as presented by the film, it’s clear that we’re meant to see his unquestioning commitment to the methods of the alliance, including killing allies before they fall into enemy hands (either to prevent them from talking or from being tortured), as a character flaw that he grows out of. That is his arc in the story. From do whatever the rebellion asks him to do, to doubting that, to actually defying it and doing what he knows to be the right thing
     
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  20. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 20, 2015
    This thread now...

     
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  21. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Thanks for snapping us out of it. The main purpose of this thread is to reprimand people for complaining about Rogue One. Let’s get back on topic.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2024
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  22. evilchumlee

    evilchumlee Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2023
    I think we were kind of doing that though... it just went in-depth with a specific criticism.
     
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  23. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 8

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    Apr 6, 2018
    Phew. OK, good. We’ve stayed on target.
     
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  24. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 20, 2015
    The conversation is totally fine. It just immediately made me think of the scene I posted.
     
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  25. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 8

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    Apr 6, 2018
    I know. Was just joking.
     
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