****The Official NEW ESSENTIAL GUIDE TO CHARACTERS by Dan Wallace Thread****

Dan, is there a contradiction between the NEGTC and HNN in regards to R2-D2? You mention that R2's rockets were taken as scrap, etc... while HNN mentions that his warranty expired?!

 

Hum... HNN doesn't say specifically that R2's rockets ceased functionning after the warranty expired.

 

The Jedikiller wrote:
I have a question for you Dan. I have seen where some of our fellow posters have been trying to complie a list of Jedi that fought in the battle of Geonosis. Do you have any solid info of who was there and not there? Are there any plans to name many of the Jedi that fought in the battle that as of now have no info on them yet? Thanks.

I'm not too useful on that front, since the only Jedi I could name would be the obvious ones (most of the Council) and the ones named in sources like the AOTC Scrapbook (Kit Fisto, Bultar Swan, etc.)

Lucasfilm probably has official info on who (among the named Jedi) died and who survived, but I haven't been working on anything that would require me to tap into that info.

Kreuzader wrote:
What's up with Star Wars: Tales? I was under the impression that it was in the Infinities line and thus not canon, but it seems like the NEGTC references some issues (it's even listed in the sources section). Is a Tales story canon if it isn't too silly (i.e., some are obviously written with humor as the primary focus, such as Palpatine's meeting with Tarkin in the first trade paperback) or doesn't contradict anything already established?

It's a fine line, and what fans should understand is that Lucasfilm is never going to go through Tales and mark each individual story with a "continuity" or an "infinities" icon. Tales is meant to be a freewheeling grab-bag, and the only way to keep it freewheeling is to use Infinities as a blanket icon.

But if a story is clearly intended as in-universe (e.g. Zahn's "A Night on the Town" starring Mara Jade), it didn't seem fair to ignore it simply because it was short. In those cases, I made the reference, footnoted it as originating from Tales, and sent it to the Lucasfilm continuity editors for approval.

Note I didn't reference "Skippy the Jedi Droid."

What's the difference between continuity and canon? Thanks!

Heck if I know.

The Gatherer wrote:
Dan, is there a contradiction between the NEGTC and HNN in regards to R2-D2? You mention that R2's rockets were taken as scrap, etc... while HNN mentions that his warranty expired?!

It's two sources trying to reconcile the same thing from different directions, but neither contradicts the other. HNN states that all droids in the R2 series have a 20-year lifespan for their rockets, while I wrote that Artoo-Detoo specifically had his rockets removed by a particular owner. Both fixes are necessary, since descriptions of mainline R2 units during the Classic Trilogy period (e.g. The Essential Guide to Droids, various West End Game stuff) don't mention rocket boosters.

Dan

 

As long as we're on the subject of HNN, what about the date of Zorba's incarceration? HNN gives it as 22BBY, TNEGTC says it's 15BBY. Did the NR historians who "wrote" the NEGTC mess up, and gave the length of Zorba's sentence (15 Kip years, or 45 standard) as the years before Yavin? Or did Zorba get out on good behavior or bail at 15BBY, and was then thrown back into prison after he was caught digging up one of his gemstone stores?

TC

 

We're so nitpicky.

 

Nitpicky?! Nitpicky, he says!

TC

 

Dan, I notice that you have "unknown" as the home planet for Count Dooku... wasn't Serenno decided upon when you were writing the guide?

Were the backstories of Episode II characters still being finalised not long before release of the movie?

 

TalonCard wrote:
As long as we're on the subject of HNN, what about the date of Zorba's incarceration? HNN gives it as 22BBY, TNEGTC says it's 15BBY. Did the NR historians who "wrote" the NEGTC mess up, and gave the length of Zorba's sentence (15 Kip years, or 45 standard) as the years before Yavin? Or did Zorba get out on good behavior or bail at 15BBY, and was then thrown back into prison after he was caught digging up one of his gemstone stores?

Pablo Hidalgo and I hashed this out before the HNN story appeared. Basically I had already written the NEGC entry that placed Zorba's incarceration at 15 years BBY (based on a SW Encyclopedia entry stating Zorba was in prison for "more than 20" years). But Pablo really wanted to tell the HNN story, so the compromise we worked out was to say that my info referred to local "Kip years."

Yeah, I guess that makes the NEGC historians look a little sloppy...

The Gatherer wrote:
Dan, I notice that you have "unknown" as the home planet for Count Dooku... wasn't Serenno decided upon when you were writing the guide?

I didn't have it handy at the time. David West Reynolds' Visual Dictionary was apparently on a shorter publication timetable than the NEGC, and several details were able to fit under the wire in that book that I unfortunately wasn't privy to.

Dan

 

Wow, thanks for getting back to us so fast! It's nice to know what goes on behind the scenes.

TC

 

Tagwa !!! Jee bedwanna TNEGTC !

Well, it looks good. Very good. I was most impressed by the pictures, which are really excellent. I haven't read it yet, though.

A few comments :

- Can I have the artist's email ? I have to words to tell him about how he drew my face... I am not that ugly !!! j/k

- Thrawn looks like he's choking this poor Ysalamir.

- Nom's really cool, although we don't see his plaeryin bol very well... I mean, it's not supposed to look like an eye, is it ?

- Callista : Luke's an idiot. [drooling]

- Gaeriel : idem.

- Borsk : I don't really like this Bothan look. They should have kept the one like in the TTT comic. Oh well.

- Corran : good to finally see him in his green Jedi garb.

- Kueller : cool, but nonetheless.

- Nil Spaar : why the eye in the hand ??? Was that in the novel ?

- Too bad more than once the text's hair color doesn't match the picture's hair color.

Now, specifically for Dan :

- Guri and Nomi Sunrider could definitively have been mentionned in the Appendix, but you've probably heard that a thousand times, so I won't repeat it... Woops, too late. (Well, Nomi's in the old one, so it's not really a problem... Guri, though... )

- About Xizor... Would you by chance have details about his rise in Black Sun power structure ? And you mention he was a rival of Vorru, but how exactly ? And was Vorru's removal from power the last obstacle in Xizor's rise to leadership ? And finally (pheww), if Vorru was the head of Black Sun before he was arrested, when did he reach that rank ? Right after Alexi Garyn was murdered ?

- In Palpatine entry, you wrote "Height : 1.73 (in Jedi) meters". What do you mean by that ??? (And assuming Sidious = Palpatine, does that mean Sidious is wearing high heels ? )

- Liked the way you wrote Jar Jar's entry... I wondered, what's your personal opinion on the character, if I may ask ?

- And the question everyone has always wanted to ask, but never dared to... Does the fact that a lot of characters have a height of 1.83 come from the infamous 1138 ???

Okay, probably more to come as I read it. Thanks in advance for your answers.

 

Dan I know this is kind of offtopic but I have a question wondering what you think, off the record.

In the new rpg core sourcebook, it says that c'baoth is 35 years old at the time of TPM. Yet this seems to contradict previous sourcebooks saying that he was 112, and COD which said he had a long white beard and obviously saying he was old. I mean it's one thing to re-adjust his age because of the clone wars, but it's another to totally make him young, when evidence to the contrary from modern EU show him to be old.

What do you think?

 

In Palpatine entry, you wrote "Height : 1.73 (in Jedi) meters". What do you mean by that ???

I'd assume that means "In Return of the Jedi," and someone forgot to clarify it or edit it out for the final release. He's probably more hunched in Jedi than he was in the prequels.

 

Right, it's probably that. Nevertheless, I like picturing Sidious with high heels... Very funny.

 

Reposted from some posts I made in an another thread for dan wallace's benifit:

"Ok this is according to the Essential guide to characters:

At age 17 he was at the myrnic university. (side note the DFR novel says he was there for 5 years.)

At 19 he was taken on as an apprentice by a jedi master.

At 21 he was bestowed the title of jedi knight by his master.

At 33, after 12 years of service as a jedi knight he advanced to the status of master.
(novel says he officially assumed the title, rather than be proclaimed by his fellow jedi.)

It doesn't seem to say at what age he became palpatine's advisor though. But it implies that he took down the bppfshi dark jedi after he became the advisor. It talks about various other things. He helped with Alderaan Viceroy problems, which led to the Organa family arising to prominence. He helped jedi master Tra's M'ins mediate the duinougwein-gotal conflict. He also served as ambassador-at-large to the Xappyh sector. Then he died in the outbound.

As I recall in TTT the 112 age was based on luke's thoughts of thinking the old cbaoth, and the new cbaoth as being one person. He was 112 by the corrupted computer from the time of his birth up to the time that TTT takes place. correct me if I'm wrong.

Now that leaves the screwed up computer history as it is put in DFR(I leave out the system in the book because it's far too confusing based on the used system). Note that the born at "112" date(said to be Pre-Empire) assumes that something like 30 years later palpatine is a senator(82 years before the empire by it's date). Modern EU says that palptine began his senatorialship when he was 20, he's 50 in TPM(It would have been 30 years in tpm since the time of his becoming a senator. He became a senator about 64 years before ANH, by modern timelines). So the computer is completely innaccurate even on the dates of when palpatine was in office.

Apparently by it, Cbaoth was an advisor to senator palpatine, 3 years before he became a master. He would be 30 at that point in time.

He became a master at the same date he helped defeat the dark jedi uprising. He's 33 from my above post.

4 years later he helped with the alderaan acendency issue, that would make him 37.

4 years later helped with the gotal mediation. That would make him 41

4 years later was abassador to the xappyph sector. That would make him 45.

Then it's screwy it says that he died 2 years before he became an abassador to xappyph. That would be saying he was 43 when he died, but they made him an abassador post-humously. Which is contradictory from the other sources saying he really was an abassador.

Also the prequel novels show that cbaoth is a master at the time that he was was an advisor to palpatine right? Which further screws up the age of events.

So let's do the math, we know that he probably died at age 45 if we assume that the dates between events are accurate just not the dates at the end of the events(he was most likely an abbassador before going on the outbound).

The new sourcebook says that he was 35 during TPM.

That would mean that 10 years transpires between TPM, and his death. Which doesn't work too well cause the outbound has said to have left a few years before AOTC. Unless of course he was made an abbassador post-humously, ? Yet sources say he spent some time as being the abassador so that wouldn't really make sense. I don't know but it seems it would have made more sense to make him maybe 37, or 40 during TPM. Still keeping the outbound project where it is said to be. So then he dies about 45 between TPM, and AOTC."

 

EG to characters said he actually served as an abassador to the xappyph sector before heading out on the outbound project. Being dead sort of negates serving as one. I think that zahn probably typoed and meant for outbound to happen closer to the empire by his timeline. several years ater he served as ambassador. Most likely zahn got the numbers reversed(PE 46 rather than PE 64). That would place the outbound trip though something like 16 years after he served as ambassador(thusly would have made him 61 when he died) and 19 years since the idea of outbound project had begun development(he was 42 when the idea was planned). As you can see history was royally messed up in zahn's books. He pretty much made a major typo or so in the last part of it(even looking over the fact that it used a very flawed P.E. system).

 

"Callista : Luke's an idiot. [drooling]"

I agree!

 

I have a question for Dan: Have you gotten any useful information from these guys at TF.N (You know who you are) that made it into a print?

 

The eg doesn't give him a physical age beyond the point that he assumed himself a master at age 33. But it does say he took the ambassadorialship for a time(doesn't say how long), before he left on the outbound flight project. But in reality now it looks like he probably was an abassador to xappyph about 2-6 months. Then within the year or a little after he went off with the outbound flight project and died. He can't have died after the clone wars by the New EU information.


outbound is now locked to have gone out 1 year after TPM which really isn't the problem. So really they need to move all events going backwords from that year date.

If we do the math let's say he died withen the same year that he was an abassador, in last part of the year. So he's 45, at 31 bby.

Then that should make him 44 in TPM.

He would be 43 the year before that, etc. etc., backwords. In reality that sourcebook making him 35 during TPM is far too young and contradicts all the stuff he was said to have accomplished by age 45.

 

Give me some time while I put together a comprehensive and corrected timeline based on all the sources I have.

 

This has probably already been answered, but I'm not gonna read all 19 pages, so...
Are there any scan's online of these pics yet? Anyone know where they are?

 

OK, dan, here is a better timeline based on my calculations and your locked dates:

84 bby, cbaoth is born.

67 bby, cbaoth joins myrnic university studying for 5 years.

62 bby, cbaoth joins kamparas academy and trains for 2 years.

60 bby, cbaoth is taken on by a jedi master who makes him his apprentice.

58 bby, cbaoth is made jedi knight.

54-53 bby, member of an ando prime demilitirization unit.

53-51 bby, member of the senate interspecies advisory commitee.

51-49 bby, personal jedi to senator palpatine.

49-47 bby, member of the jedi force assembled to stop the dark jedi insurrection on bppfsh

47-44 bby, Just having come back from the bppshi dark jedi uprising cbaoth self proclaims himself a jedi master.

40 bby, Assisted in resolving Alderran ascendency contention.

38-36 bby, Assisted jedi master Tra's M'ins in mediation of duinuogwuin-gotal conflict.

35 bby, Highly instrumental in convincing the senate to authorize and fund outbound flight project. One of six jedi masters attached to the project.

33-32 bby, Master Cbaoth is advisor again to palpatine.

32 bby, Named abbassador at large to the xappyh sector

31 bby, cbaoth dies in the outbound flight project.

0 bby, anh.

By my updated calculations if I'm right, he should be about 53 when he dies on the outcound. 35 as the new sourcebook at the time of TPM seems way to young, and made him lose 18 years off his life in which he was supposed to have done stuff in.

Maybe they reversed the numbers, and it is a typo? They meant 53, but typed 35 accidently? That would make a big difference.

 

Great thoughts Valiento!

 

"I have a question for Dan: Have you gotten any useful information from these guys at TF.N (You know who you are) that made it into a print?"

I would like to hope so!

 

33 bby - Master C'baoth talks to Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi in the Jedi Temple while looking at a holomap (COD, hc p. 151)

 

Ok, I found an error in my timeline this one should be adjusted correctly:

82 bby, cbaoth is born.

65 bby, cbaoth joins myrnic university studying for 5 years.

60 bby, cbaoth joins kamparas academy and trains for 2 years.

58 bby, cbaoth is taken on by a jedi master who makes him his apprentice.

56 bby, cbaoth is made jedi knight.

52-51 bby, member of an ando prime demilitarization unit.

51-49 bby, member of the senate interspecies advisory commitee.

49-47 bby, personal jedi to senator palpatine.

47-44 bby, member of the jedi force assembled to stop the dark jedi insurrection on bppfsh

44 bby, Just having come back from the bppshi dark jedi uprising cbaoth self proclaims himself a jedi master.

40 bby, Assisted in resolving Alderran ascendency contention.

38-36 bby, Assisted jedi master Tra's M'ins in mediation of duinuogwuin-gotal conflict.

35 bby, Highly instrumental in convincing the senate to authorize and fund outbound flight project. One of six jedi masters attached to the project.

33-32 bby, Master Cbaoth is advisor again to palpatine.(Ep1A: SFTLJ) Master C'baoth talks to Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi in the Jedi Temple while looking at a holomap (COD, hc p. 151)

32 bby, Named abbassador at large to the xappyh sector

31 bby, cbaoth dies in the outbound flight project.

0 bby, anh.

I was off by 2 years because I didn't catch a problem with what I had written in one section. He should be dead at age 51 when he leaves the outbound flight project.

Anyone wants to proofread this with your sourcebooks it would be lots of help. But if my calculations are right, Zahn was off by 30 years on each of his dates with the PE system(plus one Typoed number at the end of the timeline on pge 53 of DFR).

In anycase the age of listed for him in the new core rulebook has to be completely innacurate it makes him too young, compared to what the timelines says.