A/V The Old Republic MMO: The New Official Thread

True, that is more like his style, i was thinking about Iokath, too, they kind of forgot about how much of a gold mine of tide turning weapons that could be, they could bring that planet back into the story somehow if they go with the Jadus as the villain route. Maybe Jadus has his sights on Iokath weaponry like the Machine Gods now that the Alliance doesn't have the Eternal Fleet, maybe he already has that technology and is just waiting to unveil it ala Darth Krayt's Sith Troopers in Legacy: War, i'm probably just daydreaming, but it's a neat idea to tie everything together, as right now it seems like they forgot about it.

 

I don't think we will see any of the Zakuul stuff again.

I was thinking Jadus as the Head of the Empire, only a bad guy for the Republic.

 

Well, that depends on how they're going to develop the Malgus story for the Imperial Side, because they could make Malgus oppose the Emperor and start a coup, with the player facing the choice of either joining Malgus' coup or helping Acina/Vowrawn defeat him, if they go with Jadus being the true mastermind, we could side with Malgus in order to stop him or something like that, but right now i'm not sure in what direction they want to take the story after Echoes.

Koth greatly disapproves.

 

I think Malgus will just be the bad guy agin.

Koth can go jump.

 

...I honestly disturbed by the amount of hate Koth gets just for opposing the player committing warcrimes.

 

Koth drinks the "Valkorian is great" coolaide. He doesn't care about anyone outside of Zakuul. If you don't give them EVEN MORE aid after Nathamine, he just ups and leaves.


Koth is interested in his own people first, second, third and so on. He doesn't care what happens to the rest of the galaxy.

And I don't care what happens to Zakuul.

 

I mean, he says he supports Valky like once, very very early in the story, and never repeats that. From his perspective, Valky had done good things, so I don't blame him, and he doesn't ever object after that point to anything you do to fight Valkorion EXCEPT literally bombing his people. You can be as dark side as dark side can be, but as long as you don't literally set off a terror attack he's fine.

 

True.

Until after the Nathamin flashpoint, when if you don't give aid to Zakul he leaves.

He is interested in his own people.

I don't hate Koth, I just don't care about him.

 

Some SWTOR Squadrons cross-promotion. Looks cool.

https://www.swtor.com/info/news/article/20210114

 

I prefer what they did with Doc, Nadia, Tharan, and others. Each had a role in the main storyline, and could be encountered for more than one class, but the og class is the only one that gets to recruit the companion.

By contrast, I hated the short class-specific Alerts they did for characters like Ashara and Risha and Vector. I'm happy that they're all class-specific, but relegating them to some random 3-minute side quests is such a waste of their characters. They should have had brief roles in the main story, like Doc and Nadia and so on.

 

The one thing I get salty with the alliance alerts is Smugglers can have Risha and Vette and yet no scene of them reconnecting since Vette used to run with Risha's people when she was younger.

 

Does he actually leave the Alliance if you do that? I've never done that option because all of my characters either helped him out with the Zakuul problem or has him exiled/dead anyway. I thought he just got mad but didin't leave, kind of like Theron if you gratuitously kill civilians during the Meridian Complex FP.

I never understood the hate for him, he reacts accordingly at how terrible the Dark Side Outlander is and it makes him a better character for it, though i like to make fun of him because of his fanatism towards Valkorion and Zakuul in general.

Agreed, it's a waste that they don't capitalize on the connections between certain companions, especially since we already have the full Havoc Squad team, Risha & Vette, Doc and one of his exes (Kaliyo) etc. maybe have your character have a group reunion with all your 5 original companions depending on your class, i don't know, something.

 

He walks out to go help them himself. So it seems like to me he is totally gone. What does he say if you help?

Either way I don't think he has anything to do with the war resuming.

 

He thanks you for your support and later sends a mail telling you how, with the extra ships you gave him, they scared off the Exchange from Zakuul easily, after that we don't know about him.

I don't think that counts as him being totally gone, otherwise they would make a bigger point out of it, more like he's doing the same thing he does in the LS option except with just the Gravestone.

 

I don't think makes him better. He was always interested in Zakuul. So it seems like that is his focus (I get it, but I don't care about Zakuul).

 

So, i was just playing through the prologue of the Jedi Consular Storyline a couple hours ago, and i remembered some things that bothered me a bit about Chapter 1's story.

Namely Terrak Morrhage's supposed plague war against the Jedi, there's too many details about it that we don't know.

We are told that it was a great conflict that almost wiped out the Jedi, that Morrhage was an "ancient" Sith Lord, by 3643 BBY's standards, and that he was trained in a "Sith Academy" on Sigil by his Master, an unnamed Sith Lady (there is no more information about the planet other than the name and that it had a Sith Academy, no matter how inquisitive your character is in the daliogue options, which most of the time, i am).

The thing is, there doesn't seem to be much room for such an event to happen in the timeline of the Old Republic era, it is supposed to be a great conflict against a Sith Lord, yet it was never documented as a great war as Exar Kun and Qel Droma's attack was, or Revan's invasion.

Not only that, but the SWTOR timeline in the page makes clear what happened during the 300 years between KOTOR II and SWTOR, it was mostly peaceful with no big events, and that spot on the timeline can't be where this happened anyway, though, as Morrhage was implied to have been prior to Revan and Malak at least.

It can't happen before 5000 BBY either, as the Jedi didin't have any contact with the Sith Empire until that date, which is considered the "Ancient Sith" perioud during the KOTOR/SWTOR timeframe (see how Kreia talks about the "Ancient" Lords of the Sith referring only to Tulak Hord, Marka Ragnos, and other Golden Age Sith Lords) so Morrhage being referred as an Ancient Sith kind of clashes with the time period that term is referring to.

The time between the Exar Kun War and the Sith Triumvirate is too crammed for this conflict to fit in there, not to mention the Jedi were supposed to be big and strong when they first faced Morrhage.

I feel this leaves us with the period between 5000 BBY and 4000 BBY (the time between The Fall of the Sith Empire and the regular Tales of the Jedi series), this is the only way for Terrak Morrhage to be considered an "Ancient" Sith and for this event to happen in a way that isn't noticeable many centuries later, to the point where it was forgotten by historians, still, it's kind of muddy, because Morrhage and his master kind of operate closer to the "modern" Sith Lords than the Golden Age ones, from what is told about them, they seem like they belong in the New Sith Wars period, honestly, not here.

I just wish there was more information about this supposed conflict and some explanation on how it was kept hidden from galactic history for so long, as it isn't like the Rakata situation where they are so ancient that they are remembered only as legends, this only makes sense as something that happened in between the Old Republic Era timeline, but still we see no recollection of these events by anyone.


There's another conflict like this that gets talked about in SWTOR, and that is the one in Voss, where "Ancient Sith" invaded Voss "millenia ago" and the Jedi drove them off, teaching the native species the Force in the process, the ones that learned it became Voss, the ones that didin't, became Gormak, this is all very interesting and it seems like it was a very big event, like Morrhage's Force Psychosis, the only way for this to fit is between the fall of the Original Sith and the Tales of the Jedi era, however, we have a little more information this time around, Wookieepedia says:

"the planet was discovered by the ancient Sith who used Voss for its resources, until the Jedi arrived to drive them off"

This is a bit different than what the game tells us in the cutscenes, i'm not sure where they sources are, but this definetly makes it seem like more than just an "invasion", meanwhile, in the game's codex, we have this:

Spoiler: Codex Entry: Gormak and Voss origins

In the beginning, the Gormak were the only species on Voss–semisentient humanoids marked with a strong, though undeveloped, affinity for the Force. However, the history of the Gormak was forever altered several thousand years ago when they were discovered and enslaved by a small group of Sith. A minor Jedi contingent of explorers arrived soon after. Bowing to pressure from a group of Gormak elders who had escaped the Sith, the Jedi taught a handful of the tribes the ways of the Force. They had no way of knowing that doing so would alter the path of their natural evolution so that they underwent profound physical and mental changes over the next several generations. The creatures ceased to be Gormak and became something else entirely–the Voss. The Jedi preached temperance and defense but the newly formed Voss immediately attacked the Sith who still lurked among the Gormak primitives. The Voss destroyed the Sith, but in the process they were touched by the dark side, further altering their radically sensitive evolutionary path. Later the small group of Jedi explorers disappeared, having gone home or dying to accident or Voss aggression. Whatever the case, the strange happenings on Voss were never recorded in any archive. Ascending to the top of Voss’s tallest peak, the new species turned to its most powerful Force-users for leadership. Myths about their origins began as the newly ordained “Mystics” tried to explain what had happened and eventually it was believed that the Voss had simply always been. In time this myth became the accepted truth, until even the Mystics themselves forgot the real origins of their people.

Here it is made quite clear that it is a "small group" of Sith the ones that invade Voss, we can speculate that the invasion was issued before the Sith Empire's defeat at the Great Hyperspace War, and since it was a very minor expedition team, they didin't have the means to communicate to the larger Sith Empire until the Jedi arrived after the Sith Empire had been defeated.

Here we also learn that the Jedi who came down to Voss were in fact a small group of explorers, not saviors, they didin't know of the Sith's presence there before they reached the planet, and if they all eventually died, then that explains why the Jedi Order doesn't have any knowledge of this conflict on the aftermath of the Hyperspace War.

 

@Sinrebirth Yes! I hadn't thought of that! 3.300 years of difference works so much better than 1300 years for it being "ancient history" and forgotten with time, especially if it got later overshadowed by the Great Hyperspace and Sith wars.

The conflicts taking place during the era where hyperroutes were still being discovered also helps making them seem more ancient than if they took place after the fall of the Sith.

 

Yeah ancient is relative.

the Great Pyramids of Egypt were built 3000 years before the Roman Empire. So we are closer to Rome than they are to the Pyramids.

It seems like a bunch of Sith just wanted to fight the Jedi again and broke off and went out, but then the routes got lost.

What did you think of the JC story otherwise? I liked the connection between the prologue and act 1.

 

That is true, though it is weird how in the Star Wars Universe, things that happen 3000 years before the movies are sort of treated like we do the 16th century, i always considered that to be an effect of having a connected Galactic Society, with so many long-spanning species and a vast history of too many planets to count, as opposed to our ancient history which is mostly about isolated cultures that had some clashes with each other, the Star Wars Galaxy, ever since the Republic was founded (25.000 years ago! even longer than our entire recorded history) has always sort of worked like a post-United Nations Earth.

The prologue is pretty good, all of the information that is revealed about Rajivari and the founding of the Jedi Order, not to mention that many of the founders, even Rajivari himself, also appeared in the Dawn of the Jedi series, so we can retroactively see the aftermath of what happened in that series (too bad the series was cancelled, as i suspect they were planning to make even more connections to what we know from SWTOR) in the three times i played it, i was always hooked, and then it comes the twist at the end, like you say, it's a good way to link the prologue to Chapter 1's story.

This time around i decided to kill Nalen, and i like how we are given 3 different reasons as to why would the character want to do that, i've heard many people say the Consular story doesn't work if you don't play a purely LS character, but i don't see it, sure, it gives a lot less freedom than the Knight, who can be an outright douchebag all the time, but there's many ways for your Jedi to have a completely different outlook on things depending on which options you choose, that, for me, is more interesting than just giving us the LS option, inquisitive option, and the DS options in dialogue, after all, you're probably not going to play Consular if you want to kill puppies for fun.

Overall, it feels like, while you are given a more restricted sandbox than with other classes like Agent or Knight, the options in there are very interesting and take advantage of the character and the story to make unique reactions and characterizations, unlike the Warrior, where you are forced to go "i follow the light path" if you want to play anything other than a Vader knockoff.

Though some of the DS options (the big decisions that give you points) are sometimes a bit over the top and make little sense for the character, even with the options you're given.

Chapter 1 is a good story in itself, i like the mystery of Vivicar's identity and the story behind his motives, last time i chose to heal him, as i thought it wouldn't make sense to kill him if i already healed all of the Jedi, not sure how it'll develop this time, it's been 4 years since i played this story hahahaha.

Chapters 2 and 3 usually get criticized a lot because of them being about diplomacy and so on, but i really don't see the issue, it's not boring at all, how can diplomacy be boring in the situations you are in? you always go to difuse dangerous situations, you form an alliance to strengthen the Republic, and bring understanding in some areas other classes can not, for example the Esh-Kha in Belsavis, that's an unique opportunity only the Consular gets, everyone else treats them like monsters, but the Consular sees the benefit of giving them a place in the Rift Alliance, there's another situation like that even in Chapter 1, in Alderaan, you can bring a peace treaty to fruition between the royal families, i liked those unique opportunities that were given to the Consular, after all, he's supposed to be a diplomat and a healer, not a warrior, it makes perfect sense.

The only problem i find with that approach is that the planetary stories are kind of disconnected from that theme, like, you can go about making a peace treaty between Ulgo, Organa and Thul in the class story, but then storm Ulgo's palace and murder him a minute later, same with the Esh-Kha, at least have a throwaway like of this group of Esh-Kha not being open to negotiations, or an option to try to be diplomatic with them, even if it fails, i don't know, something like that to make the class story and planetaries feel more connected.

Generally, i liked the story a lot, it gives a very different experience from the Jedi Knight, and i feel the game is better for it, while the Knight fights the Sith, the Consular heals the Jedi, while the Knight saves the Galaxy, the Consular saves the Republic.

 

I played tha Agent story before the JC and I found acts 2 and 3 disappointing. Because well it is very predictable. In the opening it is the Sith killing people, it isn't a Republic false flag to get these systems back (something that would have an actually choice, do you expose the Republic actions and risk this new alliance?).

And everyone against you is a child of the emperor. Looking at Voss I think the person there should just not want to work with the Esh-Kha because of all the damage others have done.

The story felt very shallow.

 

We're actually slightly closer to the last Pharaoh, Cleopatra, than she was to the first one, Narmer. Pharaonic Egypt lasted THAT LONG.

Even that's nothing compared to the Galactic Republic, though, which has been around over four times as long as recorded history has existed in our world.

 

Yeah, maybe having the antagonists not being Sith sleeper agents would have benefitted the story, but i'm fine with the way it is, it doesn't detract from the themes of act 2 especially since there we don't have any children of the emperor making all of this chaos happening, it's just the state the Republic is in right now, and we only meet the Children by the end of the act, it's mostly a chapter 3 thing, and i like the suprise villain, even if got that spoiled somewhere before i found it in-game.

Though i can totally see how the story is a step down from the Agent's, it's just really hard not to compare them if you play them in succession (maybe that's the reason i felt bored by the warrior's story, i was playing Agent around the same time) you really notice that they are being written by different people.

 

I started playing the game again a month or two ago for the first time since early 2015 and have had fun with it. I haven't played past Ziost yet, but I've been able to finish the Warrior and Inquisitor storylines. I only have Bounty Hunter left for Legendary.

I ended up as the guild master for both the Jc Heroes and Artistically Done guilds that are nominally JC affiliated, but have since ended up getting involved with another guild and took my characters out of Jc Heroes. I made Maia the guild master because that was the most recent character to log on. If I remember correctly, that was Jello's character?

 

I don't know about guilds so I can't speak to that.

For post Ziost, I say do it with one or two characters, Warrior and Knight are decent choices.

Then just skip to iokath for the rest, unless you want to make certain decisions your self.

What annoyed me is that it was all empire all the time. Which was an issue with the Republic classes, all you do is fight the Empire. It is just repudiative, every planet every purple quest.

By contrast I was shocked that it was the Bounty Hunter who fought the Republic (largely) in act 3 of the Empire classes.