A/V The Old Republic MMO: The New Official Thread

User Darth_Wicked according to files digged up by swtor_miner and swtor_potato. I can say that these users are reliable.

It was most probably a part of Ziost (planet scavenged for Rise of the Emperor update)/Bothawui (its assets scavenged for Shadow of Revan for Rishi) - Sleheyron - Yavin IV (planet scavenged for Shadow of Revan) storyline for scrapped expansion.

 

There's nothing that states he was anchored (in that phylactery-like manner typically associated with Sith spirits) to anything or anyone, however, which is the problem. Just as it'd be silly to postulate that Vitiate's spirit endured the death of his last host (and roamed from Yavin to Ziost without embodiment) because of any other anchor than his original ritual, so too do I think that it's needlessly complex to suggest that Nadd had multiple anchors rather than simply being a free-roaming shade summoned from Chaos, akin to the Dark Underlord.

The fact a single ritual of sufficient power offered Vitiate both biological immortality, the ability to body-hop without destruction of the original body (contrary to Andeddu's understanding) and the ability to exist as a very powerful and mobile spirit separate from any physical incarnation leads me to think that it's the ritual of Transfer Essence (object), that alchemical ability, fuelled by mass death, as detailed in RPG sourcebooks, that actually tethers the spirit to the physical realm, rather than the actual object or locale in question. You could say the ritual is undone through physical destruction of the 'phylactery,' perhaps because that object is the receptacle into which the siphoned life energy is vested, but it can also be undone through an attack on the spectre itself (e.g. amulet blasts). I tend not to think it's as clear-cut as Harry Potter Horcruxes. It is said that Palpatine's spirit could have consistently sprung from Chaos and returned to the mortal world if it weren't for the spirits of the Jedi preventing him from doing so, after all.

Also, if Nadd was in fact creating anchors post-death, then that raises the problem as to there being no meaningful difference between a Sith spirit and a Jedi ghost, since all of the actions of Jedi ghosts (e.g. Obi-Wan's mobility) could be similarly attributed to creating multiple anchors. It's just not possible to empirically distinguish between a truly free-roaming ghost and a shade creating anchors post-death. Of course, as a Sith sympathiser I dislike the deathist Jedi having apparently gone further than the Sith in realising immortality, so perhaps I would not be unhappy with this interpretation...

 

Interesting. Sounds like yet another clue that there have been major behind-the-scenes changes on story decisions.

Though I think this one worked out for the best in some ways. Naga Sadow would have been cool, but it's better to have the main plot moving again.

 

Bit disappointed to have lost Sadow, but I agree, the Revan storyline was still interesting enough and helped move the main narrative forward. The Sadow expansion sounds like it would have been the same as Makeb, and could have been a great story, but more of a side quest that wouldn't have got us any nearer to the finale.

Although I wouldn't have minded if they had alluded to Revan having had dealings with Sadow, and the idea have been that Sadow had backed Revan due to both wanting revenge on Vitiate, but I guess they probably decided that would have made Revan feel too dark, which I know a lot of players disliked about the Foundry... Still, I would have enjoyed that myself, as they could easily have had Sadow just as a ghost-- and so not need to be involved to any substantial degree-- and have had Revan's dialogue confirm that he wasn't just a pawn the way Eison Gynt was, but was very much his own agent and doing what he wanted himself, and not just Sadow's lackey.

But oh well... maybe they could still allude to that one day in the future, as I'm sure Sadow would have gladly given Revan ideas about using the Temple of Sacrifice...

The only thing I'm not sure about is the Imperial Guard Academy, as that established that Vitiate had already visited Yavin and put in place his backup plan should his body be destroyed, which probably means that sometime between the Sadow Timeline video and TOR, Vitiate probably went to Yavin and took care of Sadow, as I'm not sure if I can see Sadow just sitting back and watching while Vitiate was putting in place his failsafe device...

 

That would truly anger me. The Sadow Timeline video is the sort of thing that got me interested in the old republic era in the first place. and for Sadow's spirit to be destroyed offscreen would be anticlimactic and would deny us getting to see an important event.

 

He is still there (unless it is random sith ghost standing beneath Naga Sadow's monument and wearing Naga Sadow's armor).

Edit: zoom in and better angle.

 

Ah, phew.

Surprising, then, that there's so many spirits on Yavin, yet Vitiate never devoured them like he did so many others over the years... I wonder what led him to Yavin then? As it seems a strange place to store his final solution on the very world where the spirit of one of his fiercest enemies still lingered..

This actually again now makes me wish we had seen something about how Sadow had reached out to Revan and summoned him, revealing to Revan where Vitiate's hidden resting place was. Heck, maybe it was even Sadow that leaked the ideas to Vitiate in the first place at some point, wanting to deliberately lure his foe to him, with the intention of laughing in Vitiate's face had Revan succeeded in his goal, at which point Sadow could have betrayed Revan and possessed him, and then Sadow, in Revan's body, could have had the power to deliver the final blow to Vitiate-- a solution neither Shan nor Marr could have foreseen, having just thought Revan himself too weak...

Not that replacing Vitiate with a supercharged Sadow would have been any better for the Republic or an illegitimate Sith Empire!

 

I wonder if Ommin's full name is Ommin Nadd.

 

Ommin Sheev Nadd

But it depends upon how the line of kings went, it seems reasonable to assume that Ommin would trace decent via the male line, but as the comic later shows that it not the only way to become king.

 

Huh, too bad they didn't do more with Sadow. If I remember right, that Timeline video also speculated about infiltrators hiding out for centuries, but that subject has mostly been dropped by now (between regular Intelligence spies and more recent Children of the Emperor).

Though even if both sides went up against Sadow it would probably come off as another "third faction", although that's still sort of the same thing since now both Republic and Empire are fighting against the former Sith Emperor. Too bad they haven't updated older stuff, I'm curious what state the Dark Council would be in with no official ruler anymore. Marr especially has been pushing for unity instead of the typical backstabbing.

In-game there are still several Sith ghosts wandering Yavin, but those are more of a game mechanic than story. Yavin is presented as an old Sith world, in some ways even worse than Korriban which is sort of domesticated with the Sith Academy and so many expendable acolytes running around left and right. During the SoR storyline, Satele Shan and Darth Marr both notice that there are many presences still on Yavin- the Revanite leader, the ancient Sith, as well as a lightside presence even.

There's still a chance of a spirit angle, considering restored Revan will probably still play a role in Vitiate's eventual defeat. If Revan showed up with more ghosts to drag Vitiate into the afterlife that would make for a sort of suitable epic finale.

 

I've been reasonably certain (like, not thinking it's guaranteed to happen, but considering it a believable possibility) since the end of SoR that Revan's spirit will return at the endgame to pull a Brand and drag Vitiate's with him into the afterlife.

 

Yes, yes, a thousand times YES!!!

I want that more than you could possibly believe.

Coming full circle back to Empire's End, and Empatayos Brand dragging Palpatine down to hell with him, it would be sooooooo cool seeing an alliance of Revan and Sadow and Hord and all the others pulling Vitiate to oblivion. I could finally sleep soundly and be happy that the Old Sith Wars Era had finally reached a fulfilling conclusion, and there'd be something poetic in Revan having at last accepted that only through himself embracing death could he finally defeat his foe.

Because, you know, there'd be something so nice in the idea that by killing Revan in SOR, we ourselves would have just forged the weapon that would unmake Vitiate... just too bad they'd never put the funding into producing a full blown cinematic ending like the trailers...

 

If anything we have more chances to see such things return than we had year ago. Shadow Realms has been cancelled so there are more people working on SWTOR right now and according to EA the game is still making money. We had a glimpse of class stories in SOR (probably we will see more of it in the future) and thay have said that they want to bring companions back into the game.

In producer's road map they have also said that they are mainly focusing on the story this year (not on Galactic Strongholds or Galactic Starfighter like additions).

Call me optimist, but IMHO we will see two story expansions this year - #FallenEmpire in July/August and the second one in December. Remember that they have salvaged Rakata, Ziost, Yavin IV and parts of Bothawui for last updates. This time they had more time to build new worlds and they can still use some assets from Sleheyron or Talravin.

I believe that this lightside presence was Good!Revan.

 

Shadow Realms is cancelled?

I can't say I'll miss it, as the idea always seemed a complete waste of BioWare's talents and basically just a MOBA, but its now even more of a waste that they ever wasted any time on it in the first place...

As for the presence Satele sensed? I logically assumed it was Revan's ghost as well.

Speaking of which, what's the general consensus on exactly what his ghost and the part of him that remained in his body both represent? Is it literally meant to be as black and white as Light Revan and Dark Revan (I believe Wookieepedia uses that phraseology)? Because when I finally played through SOR last weekend, I wasn't actually sure...

I mean, yeah, I get that it allowed players of KOTOR the opportunity to believe that-- whichever alignment they played-- "their" Revan remained canon, with lightsiders being represented by his ghost, and darksiders more represented by the Revanchist leader, but... I was still left a touch uncertain if it was actually ever explicitly stated as being that clearcut a split or not...?

Because, personally, there's a part of me that finds "Light Revan" and "Dark Revan" as feeling a bit too simple, and I liked how the dialogue in the game felt a bit more ambiguous, allowing for it to be seen on a more psychological level, with the Revanchist side of Revan having clung to life both out of fear and desiring to finish what he begun, while the rest of his spirit had accepted the end and was now prepared to move on, which... doesn't necessarily need to mean he literally split right down the middle with his Light Side going one way, and Dark Side in another, but maybe I'm trying to make it more complicated than it need be.

I suppose I just didn't feel Revanchist Revan felt like a full blown Avatar of Darkness, as he still had vulnerabilities, and still seemed to have a heart somewhere inside him, so it didn't feel as if he'd completely, 100% cast off everything that made him human, which is why I kinda prefer that even Bad!Revan still had a spark of light deep inside him-- if he hadn't, he'd never have agreed to reunite with his other half, so there must surely have still been some good in him somewhere.

 

I wonder what empire has "fallen". The Sith Empire? Rakatan Empire?

 

Well, Ziost just got fried, so.. maybe we'll be visiting more ruins of the fallen Sith Empire?

 

What sort of ruins would they have left behind? Meditation spheres?

 

Well, Vitiate said he'd already achieved immortality, and that his goals have progressed, so... I guess it depends what his ultimate plan now is.

Mmmmh, wait, back in the vanilla TOR storyline, wasn't there something implied about him having the Empire target specific worlds for a particular reason? Was that ever developed further? As I remember the Republic questioning why the Emperor had conquered strategically irrelevant planets, and there being some suggestion that those worlds could have all contained a part of some weapon or ultimate doomsday ritual...

Back before SOR, I had assumed that was something connected to Vitiate's immortality, but... maybe it's now simply tied into his goal of annihilating all life? Which could mean some sort of resonating devices that enable him to repeat what he did on Ziost across the entire galaxy...? So, yeah, something like meditation spheres could work maybe..

 

It was cancelled in February.

IMHO Good!Revan may be his KoTOR and post KoTOR personality and Bad!Revan may be preKoTOR side of him.

Everything preKoTOR Revan has done had one goal: to stop the Emperor. That was basically purpose of his life. Since the life goals of Good!Revan (who wanted to live a normal life with his family) became unreachable it was quite logical that Bad!Revan will re-emerge and dominate Revan's actions. Neither of them were strictly bad or good, "they" just had a different goals.

Wasn't this a storyline of the Lost Suns comics? Seven planets for seven surviving members of the Dark Councill? I think that most of these superweapons have been destroyed (I think that Inquisitor is in control of one of these).

 

We know that meditation spheres are very powerful. Sadow used one to will an army and navy into existence and another one is a character in FOTJ. I wouldn't be surprised if they're also capable of draining planets.

Amulets might also be of interest to Vitiate.

 

Yeah, I meant the lightside presence felt on Yavin was "Good" Revan, I just meant that the lightside presence was unexpected. Satele and Marr sensed the Revanite leader ("Bad"Revan), the ancient Sith and probably Vitiate too, so it just seemed to imply that Yavin IV had a lot of Sith spirits wandering around. That combined with the Revanite forces and the armies of Massassi and the deadly jungle just made the place really crazy. I think Satele mentions at one point that its worse than Oricon was.

The Revan duality could probably be summed up as a split personality, or lightside and darkside, though not sure if there is a proper interpretation. When the player character saves Revan from Maelstrom, he was already exhausted from centuries of torture. Starting up the Foundry seems closer to darkside, but its after his "death" that he really splits. Not just good and evil, hero and villain, but more passion and calm, rage and wisdom. Not to mention the ego boost. At Rakata Prime, Revan even mentions that at first he didn't want anything to do with the Revanites, they sounded crazy, but then he had other ideas. The Revanite was still smart enough to manipulate the Republic and Sith Empire, but he was still being played by the Sith Emperor, which spirit Revan knew about, but sounds like the bulk of his power remained with his body (hence the operations fight). In the Sith side ending, I think the Revanite doesn't want to rejoin his other half but doesn't have much of a choice. Republic side might be a bit more ambiguous about whether he'd given up or not by then.

Revanite leader mostly came off as obsessed with revenge against Vitiate, with saving the galaxy as a bonus, but he did still try to appeal to Theron. Lightside Revan had let go of his attachments and avoided talking to them directly to avoid becoming obsessed again (probably a decent excuse for why they talked to the player character instead). Although no attachments is a bit... detached sounding, but then Revan was pretty crazy by then. A codex entry even mentions that using light and dark would probably drive anyone crazy.

I remember the Lost Suns things, but that was probably either a dropped storyline, or just some more of Zho's ranting. Earlier on, saying only seven Dark Council members survived the Great Galactic War showed how tough the war is... but after a while, losing Dark Council members is less a shock and more expected. Like how it went Darth Vengean, then Baras, then Arho, and most recently Arkhous, so some positions are replaced often.

It would be nice if Fallen Empire (whatever it is) is announced in June then released in August or so, but I'm not that optimistic. Just having Rishi, Yavin and Ziost in about six months is probably the most content since launch. Seems like so far TOR's story has at least reached a more stable pace than since post-launch (when the game launched with high expectations and then... yeah, things fell apart, although a lot of MMOs have had to change strategies, with most outside of WoW going towards free-to-play). So here's hoping at least.

 

I finally got my biggest room of the stronghold done!

 

I don't think I've played this game in a year. Maybe I should.

Of course, ESO comes out on consoles next week. I might end up doing that.