Full Series The Order 66 Quadrilogy (6.01-6.04) Discussion Thread

I found it tragically ironic that Fives ended up dying in a plain "shiny" white suit of armour, not the customised, bulky ARC armour which he'd earned. It was a rather pitiable sight to behold.

 

This last mini series has really annoyed me, but only because the clone wars didn't get to tell all of it's series'. It leaves so many things open for so many characters that we'll probably never see again, I can only hope the writers of rebels respect the clone wars enough to give at least cameos or mentions to character's outcomes. As the seasons progress and more characters are produced they could even give flashback stories to the likes of Echo and Rex. Most other characters could appear naturally like the Bounty hunters and characters like Hondo could appear but I'm not getting my hopes up, knowing my luck we'll end up with a Gascon arc

 

Can anyone tell me if the Kaminoans KNEW that Tyranus is Count Dooku, or do they think he is another Jedi acting on Sifo Dyas' behalf???

 

I wonder what other orders are in the inhibitor chips. Wipe out a planet's population perhaps?

 

It's a proven fact that hoods are sufficient disguises for hologram conversations in Star Wars (unless you have Ahsoka's handy gadget to unmask them ) As such, the Kaminoans have no idea that Lord Tyranus is actually Count Dooku. I doubt that they even ever met him, as long as Dooku paid them up front and provided a secure holocomm frequency that they could contact him with, there would be no need for a face-to-face meeting. They do think he is a Jedi, given Lama Su's comment to Nala Se after the transmission is concluded. However, they have no idea that "Lord Tyranus" is in fact the leader of the Separatist Alliance.

 

I would think that even if the Kaminoans don't care about Order 66 and don't really have any reason to defend the Jedi, etc. That they would still have a problem with:

1. Being involved in a treasonous dealing with the Separatist leader
2. Having their planet ransacked, potentially having personnel killed or injured, and losing billions of credits worth of products and structural damage to Separatist forces.

So I would think that Dooku would have to keep his identity hidden.

They might think that Tyranus is a Jedi and that Order 66 is some internal Jedi matter and don't really care. And they can keep that secret from the rest of the Jedi, since it's the Republic government that's writing the check, not the Jedi. And it's obvious that Palpatine also has the Kaminoans keeping secrets from the Jedi.

But I also think that the Kaminoans would be super furious to learn that their client was the guy that attacked them and caused all that damage.

 

One nice thing about this arc is that it explains why Yoda and Obi-Wab aren't utterly confused by the clones turning on them in ROTS. They had almost all the pieces by the beginning of ROTS.

The clones were really ordered by Count Dooku, who is really a Sith Lord. Dooku serves a Sith Lord named Darth Sidious, who wants to destroy the Jedi and the Republic.

All they lacked was the identity of the second Sith, and were operation under the assumption that Sidious was trying to use the Separatists to destroy the Republic from without.

Once they realized that Darth Sidious was actually Chancellor Palpatine, it was too late. The Emperor had already won, and all Obi-Wan and Yoda could do was try and correct a fatal error.

 

I guess I have to suspend my disbelief. I understood Sidious's hood because everyone that deals with Sidious knows he is a Sith and that he is evil. the hood is expected. No need to see his face.

But Tyranus is a whole different thing. He has a beard! lol

 

The chips aren't specifically linked to Order 66. They're there to suppress resistance to questionable orders. Tup's malfunctioned and accidentally triggered one of the contingency orders that the Grand Army of the Republic had in place.

 

...that's not what we see in the episodes. The inhibitor chips are designed for one specific purpose, to force the clones to kill any and all Jedi in the vicinity. We see that when Tup's chip activates early and he immediately starts babbling about "kill the Jedi". There is no mention of Order 66 from the clones or the Kaminoans. Dooku even says in the transmission to Nala Se and Lama Su that the chips are meant to deal with any rogue Jedi. The primary purpose of those chips is to force the clones to turn on the Jedi when Darth Sidious gives the command. The command happens to be named Order 66, as it provides a simple, innocous trigger. When the clones hear Palpatine say "Execute Order 66", the chips activate and the clones turn on the Jedi without hesitation.

That is the purpose of the chips, and the clone army as a whole.

 

Except that his chip was malfunctioning. The chip could just as easily be in place for every Order in the handbook. Trench's observation tipped off Dooku that something had gone wrong. Dooku, knowing what function the chip does, takes this warning and prepares to cover it up by capturing Tup. I doubt that Trench would have been as interested in a Clone that accidentally flipped on Order 72: Get Jiggy With It.

 

I would like it if one day they would tell us what all 150 orders do because we only know what like 5 orders do.

 

So what you are saying is that orders 1-150 are all on the Chip

 

We really missed out on not getting to see a heartwrenching "Order 72: Get Jiggy With It" montage in ROTS.

 

Careful, you two...

 

Ahh yes, from the deleted scenes!

 

Finally getting around to posting about this, I think the "Order 66" arc would have to be my favorite from season six, just narrowly edging out the Yoda arc.

Edit: This kind of turned into an essay, but I'm sure there's at least something in there worth reading.

The opening battle for Ringo Vinda, centered upon the massive ring-station was a very cool concept. A bit flawed in its presentation due to some serious issues in the visual scale, but cool nonetheless. Tiplee and Tiplar were interesting new characters. I wonder when we'll get some further information on them, including what the Jedi sisters' species is. I liked the markings on Commander Doom and his troopers, as well, and I'm slightly curious to see if the greens and greys of their armor will see the unit tied to the 41st. As I mentioned in the grading thread, I enjoyed seeing the clones use the blastshields and phalanx tactics in their battle against the droids, and having grown fond of it in Republic Commando, it was nice to see the clones refer to each other directly as "brother" on occasion throughout the arc. Tup's break was suitably eerie, and though I missed it during the initial tease they released, I like that we see his pupils dilate. Together with the fact that he appears to switch in an out of reality awareness, and later evidences no memory of what happened, it seems the malfunctioning chip had thrown him into a fugue state during the battle. I'm entirely apathetic about seeing Trench's again: I was ambivalent toward him back in Cat and Mouse, and I don't really see why this storyline specifically required him. At the same time, he came pre-packaged with a "cheated death" back story, and he's so laden with cybernetics that there's a definite understanding that he didn't make it off the Invincible's bridge scot-free. It works for me. Setting the E-Web repeater up as an automated turret to cover the Republic retreat was a nice touch, and while I could have done without a dozen mad repetitions of "Good soldiers follow orders," I like everyone from the 501st, Anakin included, being obviously concerned for Tup's well being.

Glad they gave a nod to potential combat stress during Kix's attempts at diagnosis, as well as Rex's objection, which together go well with Republic Commando's discussion on the subject. The suggestion of a Separatist viral attack was appreciated as well, since Republic Commando, Republic, and Tales all touched on the CIS's attempts at biological warfare and anti-clone viruses prior to this point in the war. The assault on the shuttle was perfectly brutal, with no droids shenanigans, and no punches pulled. Those jet droids were damn effective, and for the first time I have a true appreciation for how terrible buzz droids are. Watching Anakin, Rex, and Fives investigate the shuttle was not a pleasant experience; well done TCW team. Nice to see Yularen, too, but damn is his aging evident. I have to say, I think the design team over did it a little, even allowing for the toll of stress. The low/zero gravity segments in The Unknown were fun to watch, and the grappling idea was clever, though having the droids alerted to drag was dumb. Yes, I know it's lampshaded right there by the tac-droid, but still...meh. A line about detecting something attached to the hull would have been infinitely better. I liked the lightning fast pace of the three-man raid, as well as Anakin's "boring conversation anyway" response to the unhelpful droid and Rex quickly dispatching the comedy duo up front. Nobody was in the mood for droid humor that day.

Yes, let's take Tup the defective clone back to the place where they can't wait to put down defective clones. What could possibly go wrong? I knew what was going to happen to Tup the minute they touched down in that damn place but...I'm getting ahead of myself. Kamino continues to be perfectly creepy, physically and socially: everywhere is immaculately white and bright, but there's nothing but menace to be found, and for all of their grace and feigned politeness, you're never regarded as anything more than a thing by the Kaminoans. It's nice to have Shaak Ti back again―I get that she's the Republic's Kamino liaison, but it would've been nice to see her show up a few more times in other places throughout the series―and I enjoyed seeing her contrast with the Kaminoans. Rex and Fives' farewell had a great, almost Anakin and Obi-Wan feel to it, and Tasia Valenza's voice work as Shaak Ti is as lovely as ever. Watching Tup on the table was awful. Watching Fives watching Tup on the table, even worse. Even though I know the procedures are complete BS, some part of me liked seeing the analytical process they go through, checking blood work for infection, before moving on to psychological trauma. I wonder if they intended for Tup's seizures to be linked to the tumorous chip, as tumors have been known to cause severe seizures, or if that was just accidental serendipity. I was surprised by how much I enjoyed AZ-3. TCW has an abysmal record when it comes to droid characters, in my opinion, but AZ just...worked for me, and worked well.

One thing I was disappointed about, as I noted in the Conspiracy grading thread, was Nala Se's change for the worst. I was a little disappointed that the kind, atypical Kaminoan doctor she'd started out as in the Malevolence trilogy was exchanged for a copy of Ko Sai from Republic Commando. I suspect that, along with the multitude of Republic Commando references and influences I was able to spot throughout this arc, this Kaminoan character had been intended to be Ko Sai, only for her name to be changed during production. This strikes me as a Filoni decision, moving to avoid a canon catastrophe with RepCom just as he'd done by creating Concordia as Mandalore's moon instead of making it Concord Dawn like Lucas wanted, and for that I'm preemptively very grateful. Still, I'm a bit saddened by the apparent loss of Nala Se's original, kinder, caring characterization. As an aside, who the hell decided Kam-in-OH-an was better than the Ka-MEEN-oh-an pronunciation from Attack of the Clones? It isn't. Oh, and again, I thoroughly enjoyed watching Shaak Ti stonewall and just generally walk all over Nala Se during these episodes. Fives' brief talk with AZ about clone individuality was excellent. I liked the juxtaposition of the Kaminoans' reporting to Tyranus at the same time Shaak Ti was reporting to the Council, and with the scanning scene we really get to the meat of the arc. Fives' remark about there not being anyone else like Tup can be taken in a couple different ways; I like them all. It was also great to see a callback to Clone Cadets, as well as Fives' faith in Shaak Ti. It's a shame they didn't do more with inter-episode continuity. And disobedient Fives? Love it. Just another example of why the Kaminoans hate the ARCs.

I found the tumor/chip extraction was surprisingly visceral for what it was, and I absolutely love that when faced with the hostile Nala Se, Fives grabbed and was entirely ready to use her own syringe full of whatever euthanizing agent she'd planned to use on Tup against her. Tup's death was suitably heartbreaking, especially combined with Fives' reaction to it all, and transitioning into Fugitive, I'm not sorry to say I was hoping things might come to blows when Se suggested Fives was to blame for Tup's death. A minor detail though it may be, I like that little nose wrinkle the Kaminoans get when they're upset; not a lot of emotion, but just a subtle enough gesture to get the hint across. I wish the case-swapping had been that subtle...but no matter. I might as well say now that I like the look of the Kamino Defense Force, grey with program patches just seems right for the Kaminoan sensibility. AZ-3's very pronounced "s" at the end of Fives name when he addressed him in the hall struck me as funnier than it probably should have, though that was quickly tempered by the threat of the Kaminoans' wonderfully euphemistic "reconditioning" process being done to Fives. Have to say, after that little reveal, it was incredibly enjoyable to watch him clean house with the guard and that Kaminoan in ten seconds flat. Funny to see AZ so enthusiastic about getting back to his research. Not sure how I feel about the Saiyan space pod Kaminoan ship Fives steals, though the decoy plan was clever. And we finally, finally got a trooper refer to his female commanding officer as "ma'am" instead of sir. It only took five seasons! Nice tease on the introduction of RotS-style pilot suits, too.

Nala Se's conversation with Dooku is amusing. For someone who keeps saying she's certain, Se doesn't really look or sound all that certain. A nice little nod there toward "aberrant" clones, too―Peña should be pleased―and between the talk here of independent growth and what AZ mentions about the bio-chip affecting neural pathways in Conspiracy, there's quite a loophole given for stories of Order 66 disobedience―those already established, and the potential for those going forward with the likes of Rex. AZ turning out to be a Mini-Con was kind of odd, but worked well enough, and it was cool to see the Cuy'val Dar still at it with Bric and El-Les leading clone cadets. Fives running around Tipoca City in plain white trooper armor in search of records reminds me of Null ARC Mereel's mission to infiltrate Kamino for intel in the Republic Commando short Odds. Once again, loved the hell out of the RepCom vibe of these episodes. It was cool seeing Jango on the holoscreen, scars and armor and all, and I like seeing Fives' evolving theory of what's going on. It's interesting and bit sad to see that, right up until the last moment, his faith in the Republic and the Jedi is so strong that he can't conceive of anything but an attack from without. Hearing AZ-3 describe the bio-chip as semi-organic and made of cells...well, that isn't quite as far fetched as it might sound. Weird. The incredible trust Fives affords AZ-3 is rather touching, as is the desperate uncertainty of his decision to go digging around in his head to find his own chip.

I can absolutely understand AZ's "normal" routine being polarizing, but it worked for me. By this point, the presence of the chip in the fetal clones was a forgone conclusion, though I was surprised to see Nala Se confront Fives on her own and without weapons. What did she think she was going to do, convince him that he'd gone rogue and talk him into suicide? The arrogance of Kaminoans... The whole gaslighting aspect of episodes―the test was mistaken, your truth is wrong, you've gone insane―was nicely, creepily done. The story of the anti-Jango inhibitor chip was always just plausible enough to maybe be the truth. I have to again give a nod to Shaak Ti for not having any of Nala Se's crap, but I hate the false sense of a happy ending that closes out Conspiracy, knowing full well that this can only end anyway but happily. It works for the penultimate act, though. Getting to see the ChancePalp medcenter at the start of Orders was cool and ominous, I still hate Tim Curry Palpatine, and the ever-silent Red Guard were perfectly sinister. Seeing Fives snap to attention at the sight of the Chancellor was a nice minor touch, and Palpatine continuing to be a public voice of fairness and reason was perfect. I'm of the opinion that all Palpatine did to agitate Fives was tell him the exact truth, just going by what Fives says later, and that's why Shaak Ti felt nothing out of place from Palpatine. Why is the ground floor of the medcenter full of New Mandalorians? Surely there were other models available...

I liked seeing Anakin's personal reaction and sense of responsibility for Fives, and was that the Entertainment District? It looked like it. The Nimbanel cabby was kind of cool, as was the synth-rap that seemed to be playing over the radio. I really, really like 79's. It's the perfect evolution of Kal Skirata's efforts in Triple Zero to secure the clones a greater opportunity for shore leave while on Coruscant. Love it. Kix and Fives were good together, and Fives' efforts to blend into the crowd, avoid the shocktroopers hunt, and duck ID checks feels reminiscent of the depictions of Jedi trying to get off Coruscant post-Order 66. The warehouse scene was just awful. Narratively good, but emotionally awful. Fives is so strung out by this point that he just cannot put a rational sentence together, and is so relieved when he finally manages to verbalize his point through the drugs. It's sad to see him fall so far. The very different reactions of Anakin and Rex was great, and the ticking clock sense of impending doom as the Coruscant Guard gunships approached was well done. I have very mixed feelings about Fox: Fives did draw on him first, Fox did exactly what police are trained to do in that situation, and as far as he knows, he was firing on a deranged attempted assassin who was holding two high-ranking GAR officers hostage with potentially lethal intentions. On the other hand, it was goddamn Fives―not that my emotional attachment to the guy should have any bearing on Fox ―and their blasters have very effective stun settings.

Rex's farewell to Fives was powerful, and have I mentioned that the music for this arc was top notch, too? Having the shocktroopers take a moment to remove their helmets and quietly pay their respects was a good move, though I'm curious as to why Fox did not join them. Guilt? Or the utter lack of it? Palpatine slithered his way out of that one as expected, though I can't help but wonder if the lie proved so palatable because there was a grain of truth there. We never do hear any other explanation for why Tup's bio-chip went bad. The final scene felt a bit unneeded, not to mention heavy handed. It's like, "Hey, in case you haven't figured it out yet after all this time, we're talking about Order 66! Mwahahaha! RotS is going to be wicked!" But it's somewhat typical and in character for Sidious, so I can forgive it after the rest of such an enjoyable story arc.

 

Wow that was long but you had many good points and I will have to re watch the arc to see the Cammando references.

 

One of my favorite things they did with him throughout this arc. Such a small detail but so important.

 

Wow, good work there!

Um as much as i'd like to spend the best part of my weekend telling you specifically how I agree with everything you said and why I won't because the effort might kill my fingers.

As for the lack of explanation of Tup's bio-chip, I think that might have been explained in another episode if they got to make the last two seasons fully perhaps?

Now not to contradict what I said about my agreement with your essay, I have to propose a suggestion, as now Dave Filoni has confirmed Echo's survival, when he will appear again and how is unknown, but my idea is that they could fit him into rebels after the first season or so and include a flashback arc for his survival. Now the reason I am somewhat disagreeing is because you didn't protest Fives' death. As much emotional damage they could cause by informing Echo of Fives' death they could have done a hell of a lot more by keeping him alive and wiping his memory (If that isn't possible then reinterpret this paragraph as Echo finding out about Fives' death through some other way this) and then have Fives' new clone be shown to Echo by some off chance and have Echo see the 5 tattooed on his head and flip...
And then have a whole arc of Echo persuading him of what happened and them leaving to join the rebel alliance because Echo had been told his best friend has died.
Maybe?

Now i'm sorry I'm probably going to turn this into a speculation of possible situations for Echo but that's how it's ended up so here goes...

Another Idea is that he appears in the new Maul comic as part of his reassigned elite secret guard troop?

They could have him live his life without the republic an infinite number of ways, we have already seen the variation of these possibilities with Gregor and the farmer clone, might I add Gregor to the team members of Maul's elite guard because him and Echo are both assumed dead and are super badass.

Another possibility is for Echo to join the ranks of the Bounty hunters and assassins.

Again there is a story to be told of Echo and Rex for if Rex does obey order 66 or not they can do something substantial with that and stuff about Fives' death and how it's all clear now that order 66 has taken place.

Second from last now don't worry, he could be preserved in carbonite (again possibly alongside Gregor) into any point in the star wars future including epidode VII?

Something involving our other beloved non clone characters with unfinished stories like Ventress and Ashoka?

I'm trying to inspire some conversation here so someone have go with these ideas.

 

It's good because it links back to the domino squad that we have already seen so valiantly rise and fall

(Anyone else see Droibait and Cutup as wasted characters?) I mean Hevy got his heroic sending off but Cutups death was ridiculously poor not to mention Droidbait who is barely mentioned.
I can understand how it helps to back up the tough mental strength of the clones as their brothers fall but really? A giant slug ate him?

 

I agree Boil with the echo and rex idea I would want to see them as bounty hunters.

 

Did anyone else get the feeling that this arc would tie into the R2D2 and Rex arc

P.S what does throwing a dice do.