The Outer Rim: A Minor Character Index and Discussion NOW: Minor bad guys

I was under the mindset that Owen didn't know that Anakin was still alive. I mean, Obi-wan left him for dead and was fleeing the Emperor, not Darth Vader. They didn't even know that's what the Emperor had named Anakin.

That's why Owen allowed the boy's name to be Skywalker. If they believed that Anakin were alive, I doubt they'd allow him to share that name for fear someone would find him.

I think that when Owen says "That's what I'm afraid of" he was referring to the Tuskan Raider Masacre. He knew what Anakin did to the people who killed his mother. He'd seen the dark side then.

 

I guess that might be so--but I am more inclined to go with what I thought before the prequels came out. I always believed that line meant Owen knew Vader was Anakin.

The problem I have with the Tuskan Raider Massacre/dark side being what he fears is this (based quite a bit on my own interpretation):
Owen doesn't really understand the Force or the Jedi, so he would not understand the full implications of Anakin using/giving in to the dark side. Intellectually he might think that Anakin should not have done what he did there, but considering how much trouble the Tusken Raiders give the farmers-kidnapping and killing them, and the fact that they crippled his father and killed a whole bunch of men when they went to rescue Shmi, I don't think he'd be too upset actually by what Anakin did. Owen strikes me as a very practically minded person--I don't think he would be seeing it from the Jedi's aspect of the harm it would do to Anakin's soul to touch the dark side, honestly I think he might see it as justice finally for all the harm the Tuskens have caused.

I see it as more, Owen knows: Anakin left home to join the Jedi, the Jedi screwed up, and Anakin became a ruthless monster, enforcer of the empire's tyranny. Ergo Owen doesn't want Luke to have anything with the Force or the Jedi who he blames for what Anakin became.

 

Ergo Owen doesn't want Luke to have anything with the Force or the Jedi who he blames for what Anakin became.

So here's my question then. Why didn't Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru just lie to him? Why didn't they make up ficticious parents for him? Luke wouldn't have been the wiser, I'm sure. I mean, when did he even ask about his mother?

 

Good point. I don't know. :shrugs: Does any of the EU go more into Owen or the time of raising Luke on Tatooine? Mostly everything I know is based on the movies and my interpretations thereof.

And thank you Lola, for participating in this thread--and making me think! :whispers: Debate is kind of fun!

 

Maybe they hate lying?

Although if you go by my Return of the Jedi 1983? novelization. Owen Lars is Obi-wan's brother... So he WOULD know about the Jedi. (pg. 66 if you're wondering) It could be true ;0 We don't know what planet Obi-wan came from and jedi are taken young, could be a 1/2 brother.

 

Yeah, I just kind of ignore that little bit because it makes more sense for Owen to take in this kid if it is his step-mother's grandson than for it to be the son of his Jedi brother's apprentice. As well it is a bit too convenient if Obi-Wan is from Tatooine as well and if his half brother has Anakin for a step brother. That would make Anakin and Obi-Wan half-step-siblings...or something...

 

Well it would make the RotS "You were my brother Anakin I loved you!" quote thingee make more sense. ^-^

I wonder if Owen ever wanted to be more than a moisture farmer on his dad's farm?

 

That's an excellent question. What if?

What if Owen had bigger plans once he married Beru? What if he was just about to leave Tattooine to fulfill his personal dreams when Obi-wan came along and plopped baby Luke on his lap, placing that trip on hold, permanently?

Sounds like somebody ought to write that one. I'm just saying.

 

Owen Lars is a character that, the more I think about him, the more complex and interesting he becomes.

Thinking back to the first time I ever saw Star Wars, Uncle Owen was just this crotchety old fart who was doing anything he could to prevent Luke from living his own life. He was demanding of Luke and, from what little we saw of him, not one given to acts of kindness. That was Beru's role.

In retrospect, Owen probably shows greater love for Luke than anybody else in the OT. What else can be said of a man who dedicated his life to raising and protecting a child not his own? In the end, Owen (and Beru) sacrifice themselves to protect Luke. No doubt their deaths were due to the fact that they refused to cooperate with the stormtroopers who came looking for Luke.

On the surface, Owen is a very simple man. He's a moisture farmer doing whatever he can to survive in an inhospitable climate and scratch out a living. He lives regularly with the danger of having Tusken Raiders for neighbors.

If that isn't enough, he suddenly finds himself saddled with the infant son of an extremely powerful Jedi Knight turned Sith Lord. To make things even more interesting, there's an exiled Jedi Master living nearby who has plans to someday use this child as a weapon against the Empire. From what we see in ANH, Owen is as intent on protecting Luke from Kenobi as anything else.

It couldn't have been easy for Owen to know what he knew. Not only did he have to protect Luke from the dangers of life on Tatooine, but from the knowledge of his own origins. Add to that how snotty and unappreciative all teenage kids can be when they're denied their dreams, Owen took it all without complaint.

I don't doubt that Owen knew that Darth Vader was really Anakin. It's possible that this fact wasn't known when Obi-Wan first brought Luke to him, because who knows for sure if Obi-Wan knew at that point. But eventually, the subject would come up in any conversation with Obi-Wan and I believe that Obi-Wan would tell Owen the truth about this matter.

 

Thank you all who gave input on Owen, it was fun seeing your ideas on him.

Now, at the prompting of DarthIshtar (who is currently sitting in my living room coloring in the Star Wars coloring book I gave her for Christmas) we will be discussing

General Carlist Rieekan

I don't really know a lot about this character, just that he was Alderaanian and the one who ordered the evacuation from Hoth. I'm not even sure how much more is known about him, but there is certainly a lot to discuss about him.

How did he learn about the destruction of Alderaan? How did he cope? Was he an Alliance member prior to loosing his planet? Even if he already was a member of the Alliance did it change for him--more personal rather than just the right thing?

He is shown very briefly in the movies, but what impressions do you get of him in his brief appearance?

 

Kate has absconded my coloring book, since I colored Vader PINK, so here's my thought as well.

Here's what I found at CUSWE:

A native of Alderaan, Rieekan was the Rebel General in charge of Echo Base on Hoth, just prior to the Battle of Hoth. He joined the Army of the Republic when he was 17, and returned to Alderaan for active duty. There, he became a secret member of the Alliance, and was assisting with the inspection of the satellite transmitters around Delaya when the Death Star moved into position near Alderaan. He knew that Tarkin had been secretly building the battle station, but felt that any transmission warning Alderaan about it would result in the Empire's knowledge of the security breech. He held off in warning Alderaan, but Tarkin destroyed the planet anyway. This single incident hardened Rieekan's resolve to never hesitate in battle, and to never let the Empire surprise him again. After fleeing Delaya with as many of the Alliance's personnel as possible, Rieekan continued to assist the Alliance as commander of Echo Base on Hoth. It was his foresight and planning that allowed the Alliance to escape from Hoth, once its location was discovered by one of Darth Vader's probe droids. Following the loss of Echo Base, Rieekan continued to assist the Alliance, as well as the New Republic, as a General in the armed forces. After Leia Organa-Solo was chosen as the Republic's Chief of State, Rieekan accepted a promotion to Minister of State. He later became the head of New Republic intelligence before retiring. Unfortunately, Rieekan was called out of retirement during the Yuuzhan Vong invasion of the galaxy, to act as the commander of Coruscant's Planetary Defense Force. Rieekan was portrayed by Bruce Boa in Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back. He was also portrayed by Merwin Goldsmith for the The Empire Strikes Back Radio Drama on National Public Radio.

Now, I like him because of his lack of hesitation in battle. He's obviously loyal to those under his command, but the tragedy of Alderaan taught him to not second-guess himself. What kind of guilt do you think it was to know that there was that chance to forewarn his own planet. I'm not surprised that he came out of retirement because he seems like the point who has learned too many times not to put himself first.

Now, what do you think would be his role in relation to Leia? I'm often chided for thinking that Rieekan's god in my fics, but it's because I believe that his protective nature would extend especially to her.

 

Poe asked you to do this, didn't she?

I always liked the idea of Carlist watching over Leia in a way. That he was friends with Bail and felt that after the destruction of Alderaan he took over the role as a fatherly figure. At least that's the kind of back-story I like to give him when I write a Saga story.

[EDIT] I knew it.

 

It makes sense in a Bilbo/Gandalf kind of way. YOu know, "Both eyes, as often as I can spare them." I think because they both feel partially responsible for the debacle of Alderaan's destruction, they'd feel a loyalty to all Alderaanians, but that they would have empathy towards each other.

 

From his few moments on screen, I got the distinct impression that he was one of the few members of the upper command levels that had a true respect for Han Solo. It also makes sense to me that he would be very protective of Leia, either as a close friend to Bail or because she was the last remaining member of the royal family. I love the fics where he seems to know what's going on between Han and Leia, even before they do, and sets them up on missions together (especially where they have to pose as husband and wife!). He knows Leia needs someone to protect her, who understands her, and senses that Han is the one who is always there for her. Rieekan is a wonderful minor character, and a lot can be determined from just those few moments.

 

I definitely agree that Rieekan was aware of what was going on between Han and Leia early on - and probably before they were aware of it themselves. He treated and talked to Han like an equal, and never condescended like some of the others in high command did (*cough* Mon Mothma *cough*).

I think that since Rieekan was a close friend of Bail, he was always close to Leia and following the destruction of Alderaan, the two grew even closer. I also think that since he approved of Han, Bail would have, if he'd had the opportunity to meet him.

My only regret about Rieekan was that he didn't get more screen time! He should have been in RotJ.

 

Hmmm, I like the idea of Rieekan becoming a father figure for Leia after Alderaan was estroyed...he is an interesting character and I wish there was more canon about him.

Oh dear plot bunny...what if he had decided to risk it and warned Alderaan anyway about the Death Star? Could it have changed anything?

 

Upping this for everyone's pleasure. *waves at ShadowofLures*

And, there are some fairly awesome plot bunnies on this thread.

 

I don't think so. Alderaan didn't have the capability to stop the Death Star whether they knew about it or not. And I'm sure Bail, instead of getting off world, would opt to remain there, knowing he would die with his people. He just seems that kind of guy to me.

 

I agree. While it would have caused mass panic, I don't think Bail Organa would have been the type to just leave the planet because he was warned. He'd probably stay behind and negotiate until the trigger was pressed while telling his people to get the civilians off-world.

 

Actually, Rieekan is my favorite minor character (slightly ahead of Bail Organa, as he has more screen time (or used to have ). Starting with how the name sounds, even. I can pronounce it in English and in my own language and it sounds cool both ways.
I also think of him as a fatherly figure for Leia, being from Alderaan and all.
I think I read somewhere (or perhaps someone had the idea in a fanfic or it's just in my head) that Leia was second-in-command on Hoth, so they'd have to work together most of the time. I have a lot of little plot bunnies (what do you call it if you have ideas for a scene but no story to put it in? ) where there's a disagreement between them on how to handle a certain situation and in the end Rieekan pulls rank on her which is an awkward situation as she once was supposed to be his future ruler and all. Kind of like the British love Prince William (or a certain percentage of the female population). I like it if there's tension involved.
Also, I always wondered how Rieekan ended up leaving the command center during the Imperial attack before Leia and some of the personnel.

So, very cool character with a lot of hidden plot bunnies!

Sorry for the long sentences. One of my weaknesses.

 

Now we turn the discussion from an Alliance General to the former Chancellor of the Galactic Republic:

Finis Valorum

The more I find out about this man the more I like him. He came from a long line of political leaders. However he lacked the charisma that many politicians have and need in office, he could not effectively deflect the attacks on his character and baseless accusations that were brought against him. His enemies claimed he was elected on the coat-tails of his ancestors' fame rather than on his own merit. He was actually a very good man though with, as I see it a true civil service attitude about his Chancellorship. I think he did his best to serve the people of the Republic. Just look at his face in Episode 1 when the Vote of No Confidence is called. He is completely stunned.

What are your thoughts on the last Chancellor before the corruption of Palpatine's rule and the demise of the Republic?

 

NEW:
A few new indexes for some minor characters:
Raising a Skywalker Index for Beru and Shmi
And the Bail Organa Index and Discussion
I will henceforth be removing these characters from this index. As always, please submit any other minor character-centric stories here.

 

I think Valorum was a guy dumped before his time. While he may have lacked some charisma, for all intents and purposes it looked to me like he was handling things fairly well - no easy task when you're helming a galaxy-spanning political institution. Obviously he possessed the skills to be elected Chancellor in the first place, since it hardly seems the kind of position that one could simply rely on the fame of your ancestors to secure.

It seems as if the problem with his failing image had more to do with the fact that he was more involved and invested with real politics, that is the gritty negotiations and concessions that are often abysmally slow, whereas many of his detractors like Palpatine and his crew were very adept at the public face of politics. They were bold - they launched accusations, created committees, called for votes, and geared their political careers towards very newsworthy and public actions. Valorum neglected this populist side to politics in favor of actually getting things done, and while I think he was very successful at his elected job, it didn't look like he was doing much - both to the public and the Senators who were looking for a target to blame their grievances on.

So certainly, in the end, I think Valorum was unfairly selected for the brunt of the blame. Recall the scene in TPM where Palpatine is whispering to Padme about "enter the bureaucrats" and them being the true rulers of the Republic? Well, that was a great example of the populist attitude that allowed Palpatine to ascend to power. The office of Chancellor was supposed to be rather weak and fuction as the Senate Chair, not Bone-King of the Republic.

But people wanted to see great things being done in the Senate, even if they were either A) unsuccessful or meaningless or B) a dangerous road to follow. Just consider American, or European, or Asian politics. Doesn't just about everyone have ideas on how they could do things better, and aren't those ideas usually pretty large in scope? Palpatine captured this mindset perfectly and capitalized on it, leaving gifted politicians like Valorum in the dust.

Valorum navigated the waters with his diplomatic skills, but by the point of TPM frustrations had mounted to a degree that no one wanted to cooperate with him but instead use him as a target for the problems of the Republic, and thus personify all that was wrong in its leader, Valorum himself. And because in those days the office of Chancellor was relatively weak, when he lost the cooperation and support of his fellow Senators he was basically helpless. It's no surprise that when Padme went before the Senate to plead the case of Naboo, Valorum could offer little assistance.

It's one of the problems the UN often faces. There are so many conflicting interests/concerns and approaches to take but rarely a concensus on what can be done, so politics allows for those concerns to be mediated through the form of compromise. When terrible things happen in the world, the UN General Secretary doesn't have the power to simply wave his hand and fix it, similar to Valorum. He/she has to muster support from varying nations who often have competing interests in the subject at hand. But imagine if, somehow, a UN leader had the authority to do things and started to make all kinds of changes, shake things up, become really proactive. The fact that not all would agree with the changes is irrelevant; the fact that they're doing something and appearing to accomplish something would make them widely popular. It would certainly make their opponents look like disfuctional slugs, whether or not that was true. So it was with ol' Finis, unfortunately. Populism paved the way for Palpatine (among other things).

Valorum seems like a great leader and a greater politician - the good kind, who what they lack in charisma more than make up for in honesty and skill. He certainly didn't deserve the fate that was dished out to him.

 

I agree with Exeter poor man was dumped before his time was thru. He prob had sooo much to offer the Republic, but of course Palps had other plans.

He's in a later Republic comic...but I won't say what happens juz the fact that he talks to Bail trying to warn him about the rising 'wrongness' in the Senate. I'd have to dig to find out which # it was...but it's the same one where we find out that Bail's wife Breha miscarried for the second time and she nearly died. (Poor Bail ) It's a great comic cuz we get to see Valorum and how after Chancellor life is treating him. Needless to say not well (Mon Mothma is in that one as well).

 

Thank you for all your thoughts concerning Valorum, I wish I could find more stories about him. If you know of any good ones, please let me know.

Now we turn our discussion to Captain Panaka.

He was appointed head of security for Queen Amidala and continued in that post under Queen Jamilla. However, he was the one who informed Palpatine of Padme's and Anakin's secret marriage. During the Empire he was appointed a Moff and a gift he gave to the Emporer was in the receiving chamber of the second Death Star.

What are your thoughts on Panaka? Good Guy? Bad Guy? Why did he choose to serve the Emporer?