PT The Phantom Menace - Is It Racist?

The knowledge is basic, and there's nothing in the mindset except a general benevolence and willingness to go along.
You implied bravery (put his life on the line, could've jumped ship) or being some kind of diplomat who brings together two hostile factions - well, there's no bravery visible, and Padme does the diplomat job.
Jar Jar ist just the pedestrian you ask for directions, in this case.

Yes, they're "founded", as assuming something has occurred inbetween cuts that contradicts everything actually shown, is unreasonable.

Anyway yea, matter's resolved more or less.

PS: Great sig, haha!

 

I was actually more thinking about their methods in doing their trading then what they were trading. But as Hogarth Wrightson mention so are not Japan the only country associated with high tech or robotics

Actually were the TF trading in technology, electronics & robotics or were they just using them? They did not seem to be more advanced then the other high tech groups/planets we have seen.

Since we had a thread about what kind of accent it was supposed to be so would I say that it was not obvious. I can try to dig it up for you if you want.

That more looks like he has his brows furrowed in anger then being naturally in that shape. The other pic of the nemoidians out there don't really have that look.






B.t.w. are flat faces part of the Asian stereotypes? Because I did not know that.

You do know that at least Kato, koru and Pak-Pak appear in very non-Japanese places?

Kato is the name of the evil knight and main villain in a famous Swedish children's book from 1954, it is also an Luganda name and a Hungarian diminutive of Katlin.

Koru is Māori for loop and is a spiral shape based on the shape of a new unfurling silver fern frond and symbolizing new life, growth, strength and peace.

Pak-Pak Dairi is an Batak languages

Since you said "can you get more Japanese than" Kato, Deko, Koru & Koto-Si do I wonder what they mean in Japanese if they are so Japanese?

Do you know where he says this?

Can you give some examples of what robes & clothing you are referring to? I have a fashion interest you see

Is that an East Asian stereotype? I thought that was more of an capitalist west Europe/USA stereotype.

No, but you would have to play a character from Oradongia

 

This is entirely untrue. Lucas himself said that he intended the characters to be more reminiscent of Transylvanians, a nation-state that once belonged to Hungary and is now part of Romania.​

Do you know where he says this?

Gamiel, I wish I could remember! The point is moot now, with Carson's explanation that he was asked to mimic a Thai pronunciation of his lines.

The rest of your post is spot-on. It bears repeating at this point that there are many different influences in the total package that is the Trade Federation, including some Asian (Indonesian, Thai at least) and some European (Roman and Russian-Jewish, at least), and that there are also Asian influences in Amidala's make-up and dresses (Japanese), in the Jedi robes and philosophies (Tibetan/Buddhist), and in the Wookiees' treehouses (Southeast Asia). Thus the contention that the Neimoidians are a racist stereotype of a specific Asian culture is entirely falsified, even without the assertion from Lucas that their speech was meant to seem Transylvanian.

 

Clearly unspeakable racism.

Thanks for the link, I've actually never read this before. My prior knowledge only came from when they mentioned what I said before in some Episode I docs. Though rather than troublesome, I actually have respect for the cast after reading this. To avoid a poor interpretation, they actually got a dialogue coach to make sure the accent they were going for was authentic. I still only see it as part of the different characters/species' varied backgrounds.

 

I get the feeling that this is another topic in which no one will be able to agree upon.

 

I don't think Jar Jar was in any way intentionally racist, and Ahmed Best came up with his way of talking (not his weird English diction, but the sound of his voice), so it would be pretty weird for Lucas to tell Best, "I think you've come up with a racist way of doing his voice."

Lucas said that Jar Jar was partially inspired by Goofy, and I see that in some of Jar Jar's movements, and another reason why people have criticized Jar Jar for being racist is his gait, and I wonder if that actually traces back to things done in early animation.

Warning racist depictions follow!

One of the most distinctive aspects of a black-face performance was the "shuffle" in how the black-face actor walked. You can see this at the beginning of this video:



This shuffling gait was also used in racist depictions of blacks in early cartoons. Especially notice the head movement and legs at the very beginning:



This is pretty close to Goofy's gait 35 seconds in:



And there's no doubt that there's a connection between many of the antics of cartoon characters and minstrel shows. Here's a pretty obvious example from a Disney cartoon where the characters put on a minstrel show and still display many of the characteristics preserved in their characters later on:



So, basically what I'm saying is that Jar Jar unintentionally has the body movements associated with racist caricatures because he was partially based on Goofy. Goofy being a "fool" was given the uncoordinated shuffling gait of a black-face characters. This may have been purposeful or this may have been unintentional because that "black-face style of walk" felt right for a fool. Since Disney made obvious racist cartoons (like the last one above) and was a known Anti-Semite, it's probably hard to distinguish between what's intentional and what's unintentional on Disney's part.

In any case, since I don't hear anyone bemoaning that Goofy is a racist caricature, I think that there is even less of a basis for saying that Jar Jar, a character partially based upon Goofy, is racist.

 

Everything is racist. Its sexiest as well. LOL

 

You hear that, black people? Don't ever try to do broad physical comedy, or satirize buffoons, or you're a victim. That means you, Wayans family!
Sincerely,
A. Whiteman

For He spoke, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood fast that no man or woman shalt laugh at black clowns forth hence.

And the clown council decreed that only white, Asian and Canadian clowns should enter the hallowed halls of Cirque du Soleil, and Ringling, and Barnum and Bailey too. For it has been spoken, and so it shall be done.

But fear not, my flock. Though opportunities for minorities may be verboten in the realm of comic relief, thou shalt be portrayed more than ever as soldiers, officers, and other obedient thugs and "badasses" of the new Empire. But ne'er again shall you make a child laugh. For that is the biggest sin of all.

 

Thy humble SW fan doth obsequiously submit my revised assessment of TPM and the R word.
Just re watched TPM 2011 BD release and I honestly don't relate to all of the complaints about this film. It's SW. It's fun. Great film.
I understand why some see stereotypes, but I never saw those, based on the diversity of life in the SW universe. Neither Binks or the Neimoidians are stereotypes.
If one is trying to find it, maybe, but the 6 films are too complicated and diverse on a biological and survival level to have time to deal with racism. Remember Luke's experience in the Cantina from ANH. Both he and his droids are victims, but old Ben resolves that issue.
Great to see the incredible variety of characters and species interacting in TPM.

 

Great post, Dagobahsystem!!!

Yes, yes, and yes.

Indeed! Great spot.

It's also interesting to note that the prequels become less species-diverse and more English/Basic-centric as they go.

Assay, for example, how the Kaminoans, an archetypal "alien" race if ever there was one, speak perfect English to Obi-Wan in AOTC, and lay everything on for him. On the other hand, there is a jot of Huttese in the film (but not nearly as much as TPM), and the clicks and clacks of the Geonosians. So you have two divergent alien races responsible for most of the war tech.

But come ROTS, virtually all of that alien language has disappeared, and characters like Watto, Jar Jar, Jabba, and speaking Geonosians are pretty much nowhere to be seen. Diversity is violently slashed and shot out of the Star Wars galaxy. TPM, to me -- by design, I think -- looks a lot more innocent and inclusive by comparison.

It is, isn't it?

It can also be said, quite fairly, I think, that the "alien" characters are generally the more lively and colourful ones: Jar Jar, Watto, Sebulba, Boss Nass, Nute, Rune, Jabba, and, of course, Yoda. Even, dare I say it, the two-headed podrace announcer? There, again, seems to be a deliberate reduction/distillation to humans as the trilogy progresses; especially after the "human" clones are revealed to Obi-Wan (and the viewer) and after his apprentice leaves the lush paradise of Naboo.

TPM is slightly more tongue-in-cheek and outrageous about things. Beautifully-designed, too, of course. I think people miss the former, though. It's a vigorous, fun chapter, with a nice assortment of sneaks and creeps. It even includes several impressive sea creatures (if somewhat obscured in murky water). The main creature designer, and the person who was largely responsible for Jar Jar's look, Terryl Whitlatch, seems to be a charming lady, who looks for the lanky, sinuous, and slightly funny side of animal nature in her crafty and elaborate drawings and illustrations. But again, people miss that charm and innocence.

And, in another interesting twist (though people seem to despair over this), Lucas made the alien characters a lot more funny and upbeat than the humans. The latter group he made more markedly dour and stoic; as if they are slightly too absorbed in their own rules and procedures to live entirely full and present lives. TPM is a really cool entry in the series, in my opinion, and I wish it was given more respect, by a fan base that was presented with a work of some magnitude and genius, but chose to spend years scoffing at and spitting all over it.

Shame, to me, how it's still going on. There's a brand new trilogy about ready to light up the multiplexes, and still, people are hung up about racist stereotyping in Episode I. Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but I can't help feeling that that's a little sad.

 

Thanks Cryogenic You make some keen points. Nice of you to give examples.
TPM contains a veritable cornucopia of biological life forms.

 

To my understanding did they base the nemoidians looks on the already existing duros

 

By that logic, "one could say" (such weasel words!) The Seven Samurai is "racist" because there were no Puerto Rican actors in the movie. One would also look like a drooling simpleton to make such a ridiculous claim.

 

Here's another movie that passes the Bechdel Test:






SHOWGIRLS!




Which should tell you just how absurd that test really is.

 

To bring this topic back, Ahmed Best touches upon the topic himself in a very emotional video

Something to consider if you see racism everywhere in media - you are perpetrating prejudices against these actors. Jar Jar's acting and mannerisms were fully attributed to Best. People who raised false flag concerns of racism ironically hurled a lot of nasty slurs and venom at Best.

So if you think Ahmed Best is racist against blacks for the way he portrayed Jar Jar, please realize how ridiculous you sound and take your vile hatred elsewhere.

 

Oh, wow! Never made the nemoidians connection with the cantina scene, before -- very cool.

 

Now there are two more of them!

 

To those who find it racist, I'd really like to know against WHOM it's supposed to be racist. I just don't get it.

 

The Nemodians being East Asian stereotypes. I don't think it was intention though. As for Jar Jar...I think Lucas just wanted a funny accent.

 

Sure, I have read that argument countless times, but just don't see it. I have heard Japanese, Koreans and Chinese speak English, and their accents sounded not even close to the Neimoidians. So I just don't get that "East Asian" thing. If anything, they seem to have a little of a "French" accent. And then of course it would have nothing to do with racism.

 

For the sake of the discussion: why do you consider them East Asian stereotypes?

 

The Neimoidians look like fish.




What happens is that people look at the Neimoidians and all their classically villainous traits, and then try to connect those traits with stereotypes that have traditionally been attributed to East Asians. The thing is that practically every negative trait under the sun has been attributed to every racial group at one time or another, so of course if you look at a villainous character you're going to find some correlations.

The fact that the Neimoidians speak with a Thai-based accent (which is Southeast Asia, not East Asia) is because Lucas thought it was lame how all the aliens in sci fi movies always speak like white Westerners (he explains this on the Phantom Menace DVD commentary). He tasked Ben Burtt with finding an accent that wouldn't be immediately identifiable and Burtt came up with Thai. Lucas's official line was that their accents were Transylvanian, and just by listening to them I think there's some truth to that as well, which Lucas probably chose to emphasize simply because he didn't want to give the critics even more ammunition by admitting that there was some (completely innocent) Asian influence.

Unsurprisingly, the whole thing's overblown.

 

We had a discussion about this in the Ignorance is Bias: The Diversity Manifesto thread in Lit. (beginning somewhere on this page, I think) - it seems many thought Trade Federation was Japanese/East Asian, Watto was Jewish and the gungans was racist against overall tribal people

Here are some quotes from the discussion:

EDIT: Righto, that was a bit more then 'some' quotes...