RJ Trilogy The Rian Johnson Trilogy

Seriously, no one's forcing fandom. You hate it that much, by all means, go elsewhere. No one here will stop you.

I loved it. Twice as stoked for the new trilogy! I won't even speculate as to where it will go, because that kind of stuff just leads one to be disappointed. I've been a fan for almost the entirety of my 40 year long life, born the year of the Saga.

I remember the thrill of the Thrawn trilogy, absolutely epic Star Wars after several years hiatus. It added all kinds of depth and backstory to the Clone Wars era, insights into the machinations of Palpatine's rise to power and the Jedi Purge. I was ecstatic for the Clone Wars era to be made into movies and see this stuff fleshed out better; but instead of using any of the previously written stuff (that also had to meet specific criteria from Lucas himself), it was all just scrapped and Lucas overwrote it entirely, leaving not one tiny bit from those books to still hold true in respects to what had come before the OT (maybe Coruscant, but I'd be willing to bet that was already created in Lucas's notes or such and handed to Zahn).

I read this series religiously, watched Bantam building up to something then take a hard left with the Yuuzhan Vong war when Del Rey got the publishing license. I watched them shoehorn the Yuuzhan Vong into the past as something Palpatine saw coming and whatnot. I didn't like it at first, but it grew on me. It was supposed to be a multimedia event, with video games and comics all swirling a new central story (this never really came to pass, the comics really didn't dive into this era at all until it was already finished, video games never did to the best of my recollection), and that story was written by a small army of writers coordinated by the story group so that they could turn out coherent, quality (ish) content at a rate I'd never seen in book series, hell, still haven't again. I watched them establish Jacen as the next hero or wise man, and added depth to the legacy of the Force with the almost grey interpretation of it. I remember the fan backlash that caused them to turn Jacen into a Sith Lord, against the obvious direction planned at the end of the New Jedi Order.

I watched Disney acquire Lucasfilm and promise new movies. I knew in my heart immediately the EU would be completely thrown out. I didn't expect them to bother saying it. Lucas never did when he overwrote something. While disappointed that 'my' book series was gone (I'd read the continuing series since I was 15, it's really about the only lifelong series I'd ever had), I at least respected that Disney was owning up to it, and promising a coherent canon from that point forward.

The sequel trilogy has not disappointed me! There's been some moments that threw me out for a second, but overall it's been quality. I love that Rian took big risks, ones I couldn't even predict with it. Luke has always been my favorite character, and I think he handled him well. Remember, he's not the one who decided he was a hermit who'd gone into hiding/seclusion.That was done by Abrams/Ardnt, and if I'm hearing correctly, Lucas's outlines. There's only so much you can do after being forced to write for a character that's given up, years ago. At that point, you have to go with it, or you just make the character look like he's been lazy and running from responsibility. That would be a major mischaracterization of Luke. So, he went with it, but brought him around for the final act, and going in truly magnificent and heroic fashion.

I've been unable to get into the new book series, I'm hoping better ones will surface after the Episodic Saga ends, and don't have to contend with what future movies may want to do.

A new trilogy could do so many things. They've barely scratched the surface of what's possible. I feel Rian will give us something with real heft to it. I think it's going to be drastically different from what we've gotten in TLJ, his approach to everything will be from the start, not the middle. That really changes the perspective in writing. I'd like to see something maybe from before the Republic, like early galactic colonization and such. The Force as not something understood yet, and no culture or religion has quite gotten round to harnessing it yet, at least the way the Jedi and Sith (and others, I'm sure) do. Maybe a 'power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely' type story of one of the first to be able to really do so. Just random ideas I've not seen yet to show the breadth of possibility. And a universe that could be expanded and integrated properly might be tried again!

 

Despite not liking TLJ I still think he could make an amazing trilogy. My suggestions would be this:

1. Don't go anywhere near existing cannon or legacy characters unless you're prepared to treat them with the respect they deserve.

2. Give him a smaller scale story. I don't need to see Rebels vs Nazis every single film. It can still have a war in it but make it more personal and natural.

3. By all means, expand on what the force is capable of, but please do not start giving it a personality or have it directly intervene in things. No more chosen ones or people that have been given specific power by the force.

4. Tone down on the humour, it can really hurt some scenes which are meant to be dramatic and emotional.

Other than that, I'd say let him go wild and see what kind of interesting stories, characters, dialogue, planets and action sequences he can come up with.

 

Okay, but what does that mean? I think he DID respect Luke. He gave him a meaningful, important role in this move. But I expect by "respect," you mean keeping the characters neatly in pigeon holes that do not challenge fans' expectations in any way.

 

There's a very big difference between fan expectations and basic character consistency. Challenging my expectations is not having Luke fight with a lightsaber, sure it's a little disappointing but ultimately it might be the right choice for the film.

Having him consider murdering his apprentice and nephew goes against everything the character stands for and makes absolutely no sense given his character arc in the original three films. I take particular issue with this because Yoda literally says "we are what they grow beyond." Which is completely true, Luke believed in Darth Vader when even Obi Wan, his master and best friend, had given up all hope. He did what Yoda and Kenobi couldn't by believing the second most evil man in the galaxy still had some good in him. You're going to tell me that this is the same person who would consider murdering his own nephew in his sleep because he saw that he had dark dreams and aspirations? I know some people will love these films no matter what but honestly that is just ludicrous to me and complete undermines the value of Luke's actions and beliefs in the OT.

Luke also repeatedly risks his life and goes out of his way to put himself in danger just for the smallest of chances at saving the galaxy and helping his friends/family. Now I know things get harder with age and people generally become more cynical but there is just no way he would turn his back on the galaxy completely after creating such a giant mess. He doesn't have to be the grand hero that saves the day, as I remember with rose tinted glasses, but you can't turn him into a completely and fundamentally different person without a reasonable explanation.

Challenging expectations is always going to be a riskier path so if you're going to do it then it you better do it right. Unfortunately Rian missed the mark in my opinion.

 

Its not like he planned out murdering Ben in his sleep and just failed to carry it out or chickened out at the last minute. He delved into Ben's mind to find out what extent the dark side hide infiltrated and was taken aback by what he found. He says in a moment of pure instinct he ignited his lightsaber; I presume he almost felt like he was being attacked based on how he described what he saw. But in the next moment he felt shame at his initial reaction. He didn't even really consider completing the action. He just reacted and almost immediately regretted his reaction.

 

I think of it almost as a jump scare. He was delving in and something gave him a serious fright and instinctively turned it on. Then as you said was filled with disappointment with himself.

 

Even as a gut decision it just doesn't make sense and makes Luke look extremely unhinged. Also, if it doesn't mean anything then why include it in the film?

 

Since he has managed to alienate a third of the fandom in just a movie I think he shouldnt be involved in any more films.

 

Flaming the fandom AND prequel-bashing? How about we just not, okay?

 

Yes because shrinking audiences and fan bases have always worked out well for brands.

 

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I didn't say it didn't mean anything. Obviously it meant a lot to Ben Solo and it even meant something to Luke as he was, in his words, filled with shame at the thought. My only point is that Luke didn't go out of his way to "consider murdering his own nephew". He had a reflex reaction when he saw the danger that Ben's future potentially held. I also think that dismissing the darkness in Ben Solo as "dark dreams and aspirations" is a little dishonest when we're talking about a series where people can legitimately read minds and see the future.

 

I'm not OP, but I can say that it can be tiring to enjoy Star Wars and go to a Star Wars community to try and share my enjoyment and be faced with so many people making these grand proclamations about how their childhood has been raped and Star Wars is now dead to them. Its not just this movie; its been something I have seen essentially since interacting with the fandom at all. Sometimes I wish the people who gripes about Star Wars all the time (acknowledging that it isn't necessarily always the same people) would go away so I can just enjoy Star Wars and talking about Star Wars without the negativity.

 

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As someone who has been here since just after Episode One, welcome to the party! That's just life in SW fandom.

 

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i don't care about audiences,, brands or fan base. When i started being a fan as a kid i was the onely one in my entourage/class/school...didn't bother me (that was pre-internet obviously). I just want quality movies. I think that's what we got that with The Last Jedi. If people who don't like
the path SW is taking are "leaving" the franchise i have no probleme with that. Why would I? After the PT i didn't really care for SW for a couple of years, it wasn't for me anymore, i didn't comment every article to express my disappointment with the movies. I moved on. And went back when i thought things were getting better. Simple as that. So no @Sable de luz i don't want any of you to leave, i wish we could all enjoy it, but at some point if you really can't stand what they're doing with the ST then why bother?

 

You should care because a smaller audience means fewer SW films.

 

A lot of people were worried with the sacking of Lord and Miller and the hiring of Howard to replace them that Lucasfilm would be, from now on, playing it safe and will be no longer willing to take any risks or more “unorthodox” approaches to SW. Many were concerned about this and rightfully so.

If Johnson’s and Lucasfilm’s plans get flushed away because a significant percentage of fans have taken issue with what Johnson did with TLJ, then I think that would be a great shame and could potentially be much more damming than the “safe” replacement of Howard over Lord and Miller. Indeed, this would be much worse. Many people are not really thinking with their heads. Rightfully so. Its early days. There’s virtually no objectivity on either side, yet. Our hearts are doing too much of the talking at the moment.

But yeah, if the idea of this trilogy goes down the toilet (I know Johnson is making out as if there is no idea yet, but there clearly is, otherwise it wouldn’t have been announced), then I think the future of SW will be a place beset by film’s determined in a boardroom with the main slogan being “Let’s not piss off the Internet”. And you know what? I think even Mr. Lucas himself wouldn't like it if that happened.

Also, and I have to say it, I find the comparisons to this and the DC films quite strange. I'm not sure if there have been comparisons in this thread in particular, but I've definitely seen them elsewhere on the boards. Fans saying that audiences might “reject” SW from now on because of TLJ? And before someone says the box office for TLJ proves that audiences are “rejecting” SW, I will say no. The film is on track to do about one and a half billion worldwide, maybe a bit more. So to say that proves audiences now hate SW is the very definition of absurd.

Back to my point, though. With the exception of Wonder Woman, the films that are trying to make up the DCEU are, for the most part, legitimately bad films, almost through and through. They were critically panned, and rightfully so. TLJ, meanwhile, is a legitimately good film, a good film that takes some different routes that have clearly angered and garnered a lot of attention by some. I would be the first to say to never let film critics do the thinking for you, but objectively bad films don’t get a 92% rating on RT counted from over 300 reviews around the globe. Yeah, audiences have rejected the DC films, but that’s because they’ve been crap. There is no comparison, IMO.

 

I must say, when they announced it i messaged my buddy and said that I thought it was odd they would announce a new trilogy this early, in my mind at the time it seemed a bit like self sabotage, why would you want to shift people's attention away from what you are currently putting out?
It has certainly crossed my mind that it might be damage control now that i have seen the film.

 

Fair comment until you said he has a clear idea for his trilogy because in many recent interviews he said he hasnt made his mind up on what hes going to do!

 

I think he would have at least a basic outline. He couldn’t have just pitched that he wanted to do a trilogy without any actual ideas. Plus he’s clear that it won’t be connected to what we currently know.

 

Ehhh

Mostly hardcore fans seeing the movie multiple times is attributing to that number. If everyone who wanted to see it only saw it once that number would be cut in half

 

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As @Krueger said, if the divided reception of TLJ means Lucasfilm will play it safe from now on because they're afraid to displease the internet then i dont need anymore SW. Quality over quantity anytime. Some critics from the fans are more constructive than others but when i read comments like "it sucks coz there is no proper lightsaber battle" im a bit afraid of what people are wziting from SW these days. Hopefully they'll stand by RJ. I still think there are more people who loved the movie than people who hated it...

 

Yes and how often has trying to predict the future or reading minds worked out well for people? The jedi tried to predict Anakin was the chosen one and that blew up in their face. Anakin thought he saw visions of Padme dying and ended up causing it himself. Then we have Ren in TFA who tries to read Reys mind and has it totally backfire on him. These powers very rarely work out as intended and Luke should have had the wisdom at that point to not overreact to them.

 

Attacking fans who disagree with you constantly makes you seem like a "drama queen" and "dogmatic" -- your words.

People who hate TLJ shouldn't be told to leave a SW forum by anyone. We're going to stay here so we can fight for our kind of SW film. If you don't like that, maybe you should leave?

Nah, please stay and be frustrated by our different POV.