RJ Trilogy The Rian Johnson Trilogy

Right, forgot Quentin. Thanks. Though he appeals to a smaller, niche audience than Spielberg and Jackson. But yeah. General audience responses will have purely to do with matters of marketing. “Rian Johnson who?” would be the likely response from the vast majority of prospective viewers.

 

I notice people keep talking about the knowledge of the general audience here, which is problematic when we lack any actual data about them, but more importantly because I'm talking about something else: the feelings of LFL-Disney executives.

They are much more likely to wonder about the upshot of a Rian Johnson trilogy after most agree that the SW fanbase has to some great degree been split. What I think many of them will like conclude is that, with so many great directorial options out there, why pick someone who bothers a lot of SW fans? This is basically why George Lucas isn't making SW films; because the perception was too controversial.

Execs can be risky in a safer way: by picking new people who haven't directed a SW film with the mixed result Rian received.

 

Oddly, for me, the Disney SW films reinforce my belief that troubled productions often (though certainly not always) result in better films. That’s not a recipe a studio exec wants, of course. But there’s just something about on-set turmoil that can give a film that extra edge. A sort of endearing roughness .

 

I don't know about that. Kinda seems like Solo was a good film not because of the troubled production, but because they realized it was a cluster**** in time and acted to put it back on sure footing, veering back to the script they'd had from day 1. *Shrugs*

And I don't know about Rogue One being particularly "troubled", they just tried some stuff that wasn't entirely working and went back to fix it with input from some a tried-and-true scriptdoctor. With Gareth being pretty receptive to it.

Whereas TFA & TLJ went relatively smoothly and out-criticed both of 'em. I get what you mean, that both anthology movies turned out really cool despite the messed-up time making them, but pretty sure all involved would have wished to have just got it right from the start. Kinda seems like success despite the obstacles (which is life), rather than the obstacles being beneficial.

 

Depending on your POV, there was a mixed result. How can anyone read these forums and deny it?

It's quite cynical to argue that LFL-Disney will just count on SW fans to show up no matter what. I don't believe they're so tone deaf. And we have history to prove that -- the entire ST is a result of SW fans' unhappiness with the PT. So for some reason now they don't care what many upset fans think? I disagree. Unlike the people mostly happy with The Last Jedi, others are paid to think about the community.

When you weigh the pros and cons of bringing Rian back, I can't really see any reason for them to do it. If it's really true that any SW film will bring people out, then there's no reason to use someone who raises the possibility of negative controversy. Instead, they can choose someone with no baggage and rest more surely in the final outcome.

Citing the box office of The Last Jedi is problematic anyway. Plenty of people paid to see it more than once just to analyze whether they really disliked it. I'm one of those people. So buying a ticket does not always mean the fan enjoys the film. Lots of people did this with the PT too, and you hear pro-PT fans cite the great amount of money those films made, but many of us know why we paid for a second or third ticket: it wasn't because we loved what we were seeing.

Unlike the loyalty many had for Lucas and wanting to finish the PT, those of us who watched The Last Jedi enough to accept that we were right about it will be less likely to see another Rian SW film.

 

no mixed results? Then please explain why star wars merchandise sales are in the toilet after TLJ?

 

$1.3 bil at the box office and a 91% RT score says hi. That's their second-best faring movie since the sale, bested only by their first which had the benefits of everything aligning perfectly for the perfect storm of a monster once-a-decade movie.

If that's the logic, they will again too.

You know, the tiny minority of people who watch Star Wars who care about which director's name is attached to it. For the other 85% or whatever, it could be directed by Gary Busey and so long as it's Star Wars and the trailers grab them, they'll be there. And likely enjoy it a bunch, like they did TLJ.

Opinions are opinions, you can hate the movie all you want. It's this "so fans in general must feel the same way" stuff that's hilarious. There's simply no world in which a 91% critical concensus and north of a billion dollar box office is cause for brand-concern.

 

Hello, could you please clarify which specific argument that was? I wanted to respond to how Rian Johnson tackles the Force and predictions about how he might tackle it in his forthcoming Star Wars movie (in what I would assume is on topic), but I couldn't until now, because I was spending my lunch breaks in a similar manner.

Back on topic, yesterday I had a conversation with 4 friends who wouldn't rank Star Wars even in their top 20 favorite franchises, but they watch anything that has to do with fiction, superheroes, sci fi, fantasy etc. We had a long discussion about all 4 Disney SW movies. They all praised Rogue One, said TFA was ok, thought that Solo was ok but boring, and hated TLJ. That doesn't mean much. But they all said that they would not watch another sci fi Rian Johnson movie. Ever. These people are not Star Wars fans. And I know that 4 people is not a statistical sample large enough to draw any conclusions.

However, the point that I want to make is that people DO care about Rian Johnson directing a Star Wars movie, without being invested Star Wars fans. The backlash has reached even the casual fans, whether you believe this is possible or not. I do not claim to know how this will affect the future of a possible SW RJ movie. I am merely saying that dismissing completely the effect that the whole TLJ backlash has had, is wrong in my opinion.

 

TLJ has 45% audience score on RT, lost 700mln (40%) in comparison to TFA, and created the great divide in the fandom.
This is the mixed result.

And box-office is kinda neutral thing i won't rely on. Some would say that 1.3bln is an amazing result. Some would say that 1.3bln is 40% drop form TFA result and overall just above average result in current movie market, especially considering its SW movie.

What do you think investors and Disney HQ would look at when they decide RJ fate and future of the franchise?

90% critical score that has significantly lower relevance now (Oscar 2017 season ended)
or
45% audience score and overall divide among the both fandom and general audience?

Id say they would definitely look at second option. At the very end critics dont matter. Audience reaction matters. If people like the movie, they watch it, they build the hype for the sequel, if people like the sequel, they watch it and build the hype for triquel and so on and so on. Thats what create money.

Since December 2017 neither Disney nor LF show the support to RJ. They dont mention him. The show no hints on his movies or scripts being in work.
And lets be honest - if Disney and LF had great faith in RJ, they would show it no matter what fans thinks. Its kinda obvious by now that Disney and LF dont actually care about fandom's opinion or reaction.
Instead we have Bob Iger who talking about SW future mentioned Benioff and Weiss series first.

 

So, on the one hand, Disney is so concerned about the fan reaction they are apparently showing 'no support' for RJ, but on the other hand they don't care about the fan reaction to their films? What is the hypothetical reason why Disney has suddenly lost faith in RJ, if the only difference between when they loved his work and now is that there was a mixed fan reaction?

They haven't shown 'support' because there is nothing currently to discuss due to its current stage of development and other projects which the company has interest in pushing. I'm not sure why this is the only franchise that the company needs to constantly publicly release official statements that a future project is still being worked upon.

 

@Harbour
@DarthFixxxer
@Darth Smurf
@Knight of Jedi Ren Sith

I’m so tired of this inanity. RJ’s trilogy has been officially announced, and there is ZERO evidence that it’s been shelved. How you personally feel about it, because of your opinion of TLJ (or mine, as I’m not a fan either) has nothing to do with anything. End of discussion. Can we move on, now?

 

There is some evidence it's been shelved but its circumstantial at best.

That said - best case scenario for these films happening is production being 3+ years away.

Discussing merits of Rian and such movies is all this thread can do until something is announced one way or another. If the plan is still in place - logically something is talked about at Celebration. I think that will give the clearest picture of how many individuals and ideas stand going forward.

But its vaporware right now. A notion agreed upon by KK with no plot or idea because of expected response to TLJ. Post-release of TLJ and after the explanation tour there has been little more than an emoji tweet that has reinforced the idea these movies will happen.

Same can't be said of the Benioff and Weiss project. The contrast is striking and clear.

 

Probably not.

 

I am not confident in the accuracy of rotten tomatoes audience scores.

 

What I love about this thread is that you can ignore it for a couple of weeks, safe in the knowledge that when you come back there will still be someone moaning about TLJ.

 

I expressed what I want to express: my prediction that there will be no further Rian films. We'll see what happens, and if I'm wrong, I'll admit so. However, what about the other side? I remember a lot of people, prior to The Last Jedi coming out, certain that Luke would be characterized as we remembered him from the end of Episode 6. And when we learned that he wasn't, those certain opinions were swept under the rug in favor of justifications for why he was different.

You ignore my logic for why that logic won't necessarily hold: fans still had a stake in Lucas and seeing how he would end the franchise with Episode 3. There is no great stake in seeing what Rian Johnson will do. There is only potential harm in being tone deaf towards the concerns of a great number of Star Wars fans.

And before anyone uses the fairly distasteful "tiny minorities" don't matter argument, please reread what I said above: it was a vocal minority of fans who disliked the PT, but their views mattered enough to create many of the changes they desired in the ST. And tiny minorities through history have driven great change. Being a minority doesn't make you wrong, and if you're right and have truth on your side, it's easy to sway opinion over time.

So the whole minorities should keep silent thing is a really weak argument.

 

Also remember that our opinion is always right and must be treated as divine law, unquestioned and followed with blind loyalty if you find yourself disagreeing with a mod edict, it's better to address us personally via PM than within the thread itself; that only serves to further derail the topic.

 

Not sure why you tagged me. I didn't say the trilogy has been shelved, nor even implied it.