We can only speculate am not suggesting anything as fact....

 

To me it makes sense to think of Kylo/Rey/Luke as plot A and Finn/Poe/Resistance as plot B, and I disagree that it's worthless. To use your example, I think there's no question that Luke is the central hero figure in the OT, and that Leia and Han are of secondary importance as compared to Luke once events are set into motion. Hence plot A and plot B: one is by definition more important than the other, but they are interrelated.

As to which is "better" I agree that is completely subjective.


IoJovi

Completely agree! I want for Rey to be a Kenobi since it's so fitting. I just wouldn't mind Rey Palpatine, lol.
Like you, I I like the idea of symmetry between Kylo and Rey's arcs. If she originates in the dark side and ends up in the light, and he originates in the light and goes dark, and then they both meet half way and then they fall in love, and then...

They can be Grey Jedi together. <3

 

I never said or implied that a B-Plot was worthless. I never used that term? I've been expressing all day that both are important. In a lot of ways I prefer the B-Plot in the Original Trilogy, or maybe it would be more accurate to say that I like them equally. An A-Plot and B-Plot have to support and reflect each other, remaining separate, but still engaging the audience.

 

Jeez dude. I was replying to Sgt.Carver, not to you. Also, he didn't say that plot B was worthless, just that categorizing things as A and B is not worthwhile. Read before you post, please.

 

In all fairness it was logical to assume that you were responding to me. You didn't quote anybody in particular, and I posted a comment discussing A and B plots in the Original Trilogy less than an hour ago. I didn't see his comment at all, so I couldn't help but assume you were referring to me. I meant no hostility though, I was just confused about why you were referencing terms I never used. The fact that you weren't talking to me didn't really occur to me.

Edit: Never mind, you did quote him. I guess I was just accustomed to seeing you use @Usernane quotes.

 

personally, I would love to see a lot more FinnPoe cockpit bromance..... and I think John said his role in VIII was going to be a lot more physical..I'm looking forward to seeing him in action!!!

 

What are you talking about? I quoted Sgt.Carver in my post. Here it is:

What are you trying to do, FrolickingFizzgig? Wanna be starting something, to quote MJ? Cause I have no interest in that. Like, zero.

 

I've been saying from the beginning, Rey has "dark side" origin story written all over her...BUT I can't help but be absolutely in love with the Rey Kenobi theory.

I don't buy those lines being about Finn. They seem too significant (especially in the movie). It could be about finding belonging with our old characters, but it could also be something else in the future. I'm speculating, but the movie line might be about A) Kylo Ren who seems to know her, or of her B) Luke has something to do with her past (not as a parent).

 

I'm not trying to start anything O___o
I just didn't see the quote. Please. We're all on the same side here.

 

Had this vision of Anakin showing up in Force visions or dreams to both Kylo and Rey in different forms. He shows up with a burnt evil face that is half human/half mechanical to Kylo talking evil talk. Then, Rey, while searching for her heritage, sees Anakin in more of a good light side vision to show the duality. However, as Rey starts to go deeper and deeper into her search realizing the evil in her family's background, the vision of Anakin becomes more evil. Meanwhile, as Kylo shows more remorse, his vision becomes lighter and lighter and Kylo becomes the one to try and bring Rey back from darkness but cannot gain support due to his past actions so he goes it alone.

 

That's what I think.
Even if we weren't on the same side, there's no need for drama, amirite. Peace.

 

I think it's a good way to integrate the art featuring half evil force ghost Anakin, I just don't think Rey is related to Anakin. Still, even if they are related, it would be an intriguing possibility.

 

And I just booked my accomodation in Dubrovnik. May the Force be with you guys. C u on SW ep. VIII set.

 

If the Force Bond is real, Rey would "technically" have a connection to Anakin through Ren.

 

Something just occured to me... Admitting that the Force bond is real, Kylo Ren would involuntarily have mentored Rey //:

- the mind-trick: "I know you've seen the map. It's in there... and now you'll give it to me."
- the lightsaber grabbing (and we all know that it took years for Luke to do this)

But... What about her lightsaber fighting style? | Did she also take it from Ren? Or is it inherent to all the FS? (very unlikely)
Because you know, a lot of people noticed that it is strongly reminiscent of Palpatine's in ROS...

Or, would it be her fighting style when she uses the Dark side? (coincidence ++)

 

That's awesome! Tell us the news about it!

 

That's basically why I'm so confident in the Force Bond theory myself. Yes, she took the saber style from Ren. It mirrors his style perfectly. She even uses one of his signature saber flips to scar his face. Whenever Rey randomly gains an ability in the movie, it happens right after Ren uses the same ability. When he Mind Probes, she Mind Probes; Pablo Hidalgo suggested Rey got the Mind Trick from Ren's mind; when he Force Grabs the saber, she Force Grabs the saber; when he channels the Force and expresses a desire to be her teacher, she feeds on his saber training. It just mains a whole lot more sense than "she heard it in a story on Jakku," because I think we can all agree that explanation is complete and utter garbage. Knowing about something doesn't give you the ability to do it perfectly with no practice. That's not how the Force works.

 

I like your thought process and I agree that what you're proposing makes perfect sense.

Question for you and all the Force bond advocates (of which I am one, to be clear): what do you make of that moment where Kylo and Rey gazed at each other intensely on the edge of the cliff, and then Rey closes her eyes. That was the moment where the fight took a turn, and Rey "powered up" and proceeded to hand Kylo's butt to him, signature Kylo flip and face-scarring included.

From a Force bond perspective, what do you guys think occurred there? Was she "downloading" from him in that moment? How does it work? If Rey hadn't had her meditation moment, I think Kylo Ren would have easily won the fight.

Darkspellmaster, if you're around I'd love to hear your input on this.

 

Can't wait! I will try to get in... but probably will be overprotected.... still trying.

 

The more times I watch the scene the more I'm convinced Ren was testing her. There's no way he knows what a Force Bond is, but the look on his face when she catches the saber makes it pretty clear that he suspects something is up. He calms down just as she does, even taking a second to blink. I think he succumbed to his own masochistic curiosity without really considering the consequences, and just like the dialogue he spouts at her, the moment of calm channeling is something he shares just with her. He loses all sense of his goal, and suddenly she is the only thing that matters. As for your second question, they could elaborate a lot on the Force Bond. They might even change the name, but it's clear some kind of power exchange was going on between them. There's way too much evidence for it to be a coincidence.

 

OK, guys, I wrote this essay to end Finn discussion on Reylo Forum. You can re-post it to Finn forum or Finnrey forums or wherever you want, you have my permission. But please leave Reylo Forum to Reylo discussion. It isn't that Finn isn't important, it's that this is a special forum for Rey and Kylo. If there was a special forum for Rey, Finn and Kylo as a trio or love triangle or both, I'll gladly post there too.

So, today, I watched TFA again with a specific attention to Finn and how he fits in with Rey and Kylo. Here are my conclusions:

The Call from the Light or How TFA Trio Answered It In Sequence

Three Lost Souls Navigating the Galaxy

There's no doubt that TFA trio are Finn, Rey and Kylo, not Finn, Rey and Poe. Difference between Poe and other 3 is what Entertainment Weekly calls "three lost souls navigating the galaxy". Unlike Poe who knows where he belongs and was on the right side since his birth (one of companion books mentions that his parents were Rebel pilots), Finn, Rey and Kylo are all in the places where they don't belong. They know that they don't but they also don't know where they do. But Force knows and it needs them for its Big Plan. Therefore, it sent an invitation to all 3, and not to Poe cause he's already where he should be.

Finn answers the call

A child soldier programmed from his birth to be a killing machine for FO, and who had no exposure to alternative way of thinking and set of values, suddenly acts completely against everything he was thought that was right. Lazy writing or a touch of mysticism? I'll go with the latter because I think that's where they are going in the grand scheme of things. When Finn is faced with an order to kill villagers, he doesn't fire his weapon despite programming that told him it was the right thing to do. What's happened here? A call from the Light that's been answered. Finn doesn't identify it as such but Kylo Ren does. He feels something about Finn - the Light, the conflict, the failure to fire, all 3? Few scenes later, Snoke states "there's been an awakening". Now, we are led to believe that awakening is only connected to Rey, but after this viewing I think that the awakening or Call from the Light definitely applies to Rey, Finn and Kylo. The Force wants all 3 and you can see why. I'll discuss each character separately, so since this is Finn section, I can see that the Force wants Finn because he is from the inside of the FO, the military. You cannot defeat the system just with outside force. Resistance isn't enough to bring it down without division within FO. Many suspect that Finn's fate may be to free ST and I think it would be wonderful and fitting. Through his character, they got a sympathetic background so we are encouraged to root for their liberation.

Kylo and Rey as Catalysts for Finn's Awakening

Kylo is the first catalyst for Finn's Awakening for he brutally kills Lor San Tekka in front of Finn and then orders the slaughter of the villagers. In short, his actions are Finn's first taste of what he is trained to be (his first battle/mission) and the Light calls to him to stand up to it. And he does, first by refusing to fire and then by freeing Poe who's been captured and tortured by Kylo.

Rey is the second catalyst for Finn's Awakening when his fate in his decisions starts to waver due to fear. She's the reason he pulls himself together and stays on the path and, most importantly, why he picks up the Ultimate Symbol Of Accepted Invitation From the Light - the Skywalker Legacy Saber aka ESkylibur (I know, cheesy as hell but easier to type than legacy saber ).



Finn May Not Be Force Sensitive But He Is With the Force

While there's no evidence in the movie that Finn is Force Sensitive like Rey and Kylo, he is now with the Force because ESkylibur allowed him to wield it. It accepted only the characters who accepted the invitation from the Light, and rejected the one who still didn't. Since there is a debate about "random" use of the lightsaber, I'd say that ESkylibur works like Mjolnir - even though Thor's a designated wielder (as long as he's worthy), another worthy character can wield it or lift it too (Vision, Cap made it vibrate a bit) while unworthy cannot (Thor due to his arrogance, Loki, all those humans including Stan Lee at the hammer lifting contest, assorted Avengers) . Finn's worthy so ESkylibur lights up for him and allows him to use it. Yes, that's return to fairy tale elements in Star Wars that TP sorely lacked.

Finn and Kylo As Catalists For Rey's Awakening


Unlike Finn who accepts the invitation from the Force right away, Rey takes her time due to different situation from Finn's. While Finn is looking for the way out of FO, and the Call from the Light points the way out, Rey is "unable to leave" Jakku because she's waiting for her parents whom she knows, deep down, won't come back. Therefore, it's hard to discuss her awakening without the catalysts.

It's very likely that she was hearing the call for a long time but brushed it off because it clashed with her inability to move on. This ties in with Snokes"s "There's been an awakening". Force awakened and it's calling to our trio. However, when Rey meets Finn, she is forced away from Jakku and when he leaves her in a fit of a fear-induced doubt, she starts hearing the call from ESkylibur aka physical symbol of the Force/Light. Rey rejects the call because visions that came from ESkylibur scared her, but will soon discover that she is Force Sensitive thanks to triggering by Kylo Ren. This whole thread is dedicated to this topic so I won't go into details.

Rey finally accepts the Call from the Light, symbolically presented when ESkylibur flies into her hands, when Finn and Kylo face each other thus their fight becomes a catalyst for her acceptance in order to help one and defeat another.

So while Finn is The Force's Chosen One Out of Three because he comes from the system that has to be brought down from within, Rey is the Chosen One Out of Three because she's "completely untrained but strong with the Force, stronger than she knows". The Force always means Light so she's strong with the Light. There are no Jedi and the last one is too old. So Rey is the Force's Rey of Hope.

Kylo Ren - From Lost Soul to One of the Chosen Three



In all stories where Mystical Entity (Deity, Force, Other) calls to the chosen ones, someone accepts the call later than the other characters, but always at the most crucial moment that tips the victory over to the heroic side. In this case, Kylo is the Chosen One Out of Three that will answer the call later in the saga. Right now he's still One Lost Soul vs Two Chosen Ones Out of Three.

Since Kylo is convinced that his nature is Dark and that the Light is intrusion that tears him apart and causes unbearable pain, he's rejecting the persistent call from the Light and goes as far as killing his father in order to end his inner torture. We don't know how bad his inner struggle is but we should believe it's terrible since he thought such horrific act would bring him peace. The plan backfired badly leaving Kylo even more conflicted, remorseful and mentally unstable than before.

This thread offered many in-depth think pieces about Kylo so I won't go into details. I just want to point out that, while he served as the catalyst for both Finn's and Rey's acceptance of the Light, those characters are yet to act as the catalysts for his, though seeds are already there. Why I think they will play that role? Because they are The Chosen Three. The Force needs Kylo because it cannot fully defeat the Dark Side unless it is from the inside. Dark Side is truly defeated only when a Dark Sider turns away from it. The Force needs him and it needs Finn and Rey to be his catalyst for accepting the Light just like he was theirs.

The Chosen Three In Conclusion

I spent more time analysing Finn as The Chosen One Out of Three because Rey and Kylo are much more discussed on this thread. But in general, all 3 are The Chosen Ones or The Chosen Three (as a group) and will have important role to play in bringing down Snoke and the First Order. All 3 made/are still making a journey from lost soul to the Chosen One. And all 3 have wileded/will wield ESKylibur as a token of acceptance of the Light and worth.

 

I don't think Rey was downloading anything from Kylo...I think the opposite happened, something I noticed in that scene was that as Rey became calmer and calmer, so did Kylo...up until then he was completely fueled by rage and pain...I think Kylo was channeling Rey's calm, and then when she suddenly attacked him, he was caught off guard because he couldn't tap into his rage anymore....

 

Who said anything about Finn?



--------------------

to spend more time with Rey, Poe and so on.
http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Why-Star-Wars-Episode-8-May-Undergoing-Rewrite-106667.html

 

I considered that too, and yes, I love that interpretation. I'm not sure if I would use the term "downloading" because I'm not confident Rey will still be able to use any of the abilities she "took" from Ren now that she's separated from him. They might wear off, somewhat like Rogue from X-Men. She'll probably have to start her training all over from the beginning, which makes sense because her staff is clearly foreshadowing some kind of pole saber. If she was just going to keep Ren's abilities, why not use a classic saber instead? No, I'm sure a part of Episode VIII (if the Force Bond is real) will include her being very confused as a result of no longer being able to use any of the powers she used against Ren. That would be a great way to start introducing the Force Bond to the audience in my opinion, as it lampshades her Jedi Goddess plot powers at the end of Episode VII.