Amph The Round Table: The King Arthur In Literature Thread

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This thread is designed to discuss all of the different retellings of the tale of KING ARTHUR AND THE KNIGHTS OF THE ROUNDTABLE in all of its literary forms.

Which books are the best? Which authors portray the best Guenievere? The best Lancelot? The best Arthur or Mordred? Which authors fail to capture the mystique of the King Arthur Legend? And who has best reimagined the timeless story?

Come on in and pull up a chair around the table - let the discussion commence!

 

Does the focus of this thread also encompass the midieval versions of the Arthurian legends?

I think it would be interesting to compare modern takes on Arthur and his knights to older accounts, such as Thomas Mallory's.

 

Oh, absolutely! Sorry if I didn't make that clear. This thread is for talking about ALL King Arthur stories including Thomas Mallory. He's the man who started it all, we certainly don't want to exclude him and the other earlier tales that he inspired

 

Actually, the credit for starting the the Arthurian Legend (or at least popularising them) goes to Geoffrey of Monmoth. If I remember correctly, his account of the search for the Holy Grail differs in a number of ways from Mallory's. The main knight is named Parzifal and he survives the quest. Sadly, I haven't yet found a copy of Monmoth. So I have had to rely on references from other writers.

I think Mallory's version is influenced a lot by the times he lived in. I have a very interesting book about how the telling of the Arthurian legends reflect British history and events (but maybe that's outside this topic).

Anyway, a few years ago I read some of the books in Jack Whyte's series. He tries to write an historical account, looking at what could lie behind the legends. I like his take on the influence of the Romans and that Arthur would be part of a high social class of Romans adapting to the changes wrought by the end of the Roman presence in Britain.

A year ago I picked up Marion Zimmer Bradley's Mists of Avalon. Since it has its own thread I won't go too deep into that book. Suffice to say that I liked how she focused on the female parts.

 

The first Arthurian story I read was the T.H. White novel based on Malory's version, The Once and Future King. It's probably the best I've read - I don't particularly like the more modern ones. Most of them seem to distort the story in one way or another for whatever reason. I haven't Mists of Avalon, though. I find the most interesting part to look at is the way the story has been passed down and changed over time. It's surprising how many different elements throughout history have worked their way into the legend.

 

I love the King Arthur legend! The Sword in the Stone movie will always hold a special place in my heart.

My favorite King Arthur books are these ones by Gerald Morris. They're really funny and lighthearted, yet can be serious at the same time. Great, great books. My favorite being "The Savage Damsel and the Dwarf" because of the title. Though, I think "The Ballad of Sir Dinadan" is one of the funniest ones. However, you must read them in order! Well, not really...but it's better that way!

-The Squire's Tale
-The Squire, His Knight, and His Lady
-Parsifal's Page
-The Ballad of Sir Dinadan
-The Princess, the Crone, and the Dung-Cart Knight
-The Lioness and Her Knight

The last one is new and I am so excited!



On a more serious note, the "I am..." series was really good too. There were two that I know of: "I am Mordred" and "I am Morgan le Fay". Both are by Nancy Springer and excellent reads.

 

Holy Grail!!!

 

I apologize for that. My brain wishes to inform you that the cell who thought that up has just been fired.

 

The Lost Years of Merlin series by T.A. Barron is quite good...although it's been some time since I've read those books....I'm not sure if they were aimed for a younger audience, but I sure enjoyed them when I read it!

 

I was first introduced to the King Arthur legend by picking up Mary Stewart's Merlin trilogy and saga:

The Crystal Cave
The Hollow Hills
The Last Enchantment
The Wicked Day

Her Merlin trilogy and the follow-up story are absolutely brilliant. The first 3 show Merlin growing up, discovering his gift, training the would-be king, becoming the great seer-advisor, and then his seclusion.

The final book in the saga, The Wicked Day is a rare gem of a book. Instead of focusing on the torrid affair of Guenievere and Lancelot, we get to see all angles of where things fell apart. Best yet, this is the only book I've ever read where Mordred is portrayed in a highly sympathetic light. Nearly all adaptations that I read otherwise paint him as the evil spawn of Morgause w/ no redeeming qualities. Arthur is a great warrior king - highly intelligent war general, loving husband, who unfortunately has to leave his wife alone to bring peace to their lands.

Guen deeply loves her husband, but feels abandoned, and ultimately loathes herself and her failings for falling for another man. The inevitable end is beautifully written.

If you've never read these books, please do - they're truly a gift.

 

i read the once and future king last summer and it quickly became my favorite telling of arthur's saga. i enjoy how white only deals with what is really important and doesnt waste too much time trying to recount names and battles. though i do have an interest in mallory's version, i've never hunkered down and gotten to reading it all.


and since this is the sci-fi forum, does anybody know deffinatively if this book was actually charles xavier's favorite book, or is that just crossed information?

 

Unlocked.

 

You guys should pick up John Steinbeck's interpretation of Mallory's work. Good stuff.

 

Steinbeck did Arthur? Doesn't seem like his thing.

 

He certainly did, it's what he was working on when he died. I don't think it was finished but was published posthumously.

 

Weird. Was it any good? I'm really not a big fan of his (read: read 1.5 of his books and completely hated them).

 

I've read Grapes of Wrath and Of Mice and Men, I enjoyed them both but Grapes I doubt I'd read again (very heavy going, I found.) M&M is much more accessible.

As to King Arthur, I can't help you, I've never read it and only knew of it from the inside of my GoW copy.

 

Those were the two I read.

I kinda wonder what his take on ARthur would be, but not enough to find a copy

 

If I may, I'd like to offer a brief catalog of Arthur's literary history. Even among fans of the modern re-tellings of his legend, there seems to be a dearth of understanding as to when and how the character and his adventures came to be recorded, popularized and spread throughout Europe and the New World. Hopefully this short essay will shed some light on the subject for those who are interested.

[NOTE: I've used Norris J. Lacy's Arthurian Encyclopedia as my main source.]

* The earliest reference to Arthur, not yet named as a king, occurs in the late 6th-century poem Y Gododdin (attributed to the bard Aneirin); Arthur is mentioned in passing as a model for martial excellence. Here it is not clear when the poet believes Arthur lived, nor in what region of Britain, only that Arthur was/is a kind of proverbial warrior against whom all other warriors can be compared.

* The Black Book of Carmarthen and the Book of Taliesin, both written down in the 13th centuries but probably from works as early as the 7th century, contain poems which also name Arthur as a famous warrior, and refer to a band of followers which accompany him on otherworldy adventures. ("The Stanzas of the Graves", "The Battle of the Trees" and "The Spoils of Annwn".)

* The Historia Brittonum ("History of the Britains"), a 9th-century work attributed to the Welsh monk Nennius, who "made a heap of all he found" from among old documents, enumerates Twelve Battles won by Arthur against the invading Saxons, specifically naming Arthur as a "leader of battles" rather than a king. Nennius' work also includes the Annales Cambriae ("The Welsh Chronicles") which list the Battles of Badon and of Camlann, in which Arthur fought, in the years 500 and 539 AD, respectively.

* Several "Lives" (Vitae) of Welsh saints from the 9th through the 11th centuries also make Arthur a legendary military figure, against whose marvelous achievements the saints are favorably measured. It is in some of these that Arthur is first named as a king.

* "Culhwch and Olwen", a tale written down in the 14th but probably belonging to the 11th century, gives Arthur dominion over a court full of heroes with astonishing powers. The 13th-cent. "The Dream of Rhonabwy" extends this conceptualization of the character. (Both of these tales can be found in the modern compilation known, somewhat erroneously, as the Mabinogion.)

* Geoffrey of Monmouth, a Welsh scholar of the mid-12th century, wrote a fictional literary work, the "History of the Kings of Britain" (Historia Regum Brittaniae), which for centuries was taken as factual history by the credulous, and was the first best-seller in history. This seminal medieval work contains the first instances of many of the elements of the Arthurian legend we are familiar with today: Uther Pendragon's magic-enhanced paternity, the prophet Merlin as royal counselor, Arthur becoming king as a young teen, Arthur wielding a magical sword of light (here called Caliburnus), Arthur reigning in splendor, peace and prosperity for a generation, Arthur defying Rome, Arthur's final battle against his usurper nephew Mordred (hinted at in Nennius' AC), Arthur's being carried at death to the Isle of Avalon. Geoffrey's contribution to Arthurian legend and his influence on the literary form cannot be overstated.

* Wace was a Norman scholar who wrote his Arthurian Brut in the mid-to-late-12th century, using Geoffrey as a source, but expanding greatly on that work and inventing the Round Table.

* Chretien de Troyes, a French courtier of the late 12th century, essentially invented the medieval romance genre, and wrote lengthy poems which centered around Arthur's court. Chretien invented, so far as we know, the characters of Lancelot and Perceval, and was the first to write about the ideals of chivalry and about the Holy Grail. In Chretien the stories are never about Arthur, but revolve around the heroic and romantic setting of Arthur's court.

* The Frenc

 

In my above catalog I left out the following items:

* The Alliterative Morte Arthure is a late 14th century verse English poem, narrating Arthur's adventures in France and Italy, and on his return to Britain, his sea-battles against pagan traitors and his final, mortal battle against Mordede. (This was one of Malory's sources in writing his 15th-century work.)

* The Stanzaic Le Morte Arthur is a late 14th century English verse romance, based on the French "Mort Artu" (part of the Vulgate Cycle), detailing the rescue by Lancelot of Queen "Gaynor" (Guenevere) from death-by-burning, the feud between the Sons of Lot (Gawayn, Aggrawayne, Gaheries) and Lancelot, and once again, the usurpation by Mordred and the final battle in which Arthur dies and is carried to Avalon. (This was one of Malory's sources in writing his 15th-century work.)

* Sir Gawain and the Green Knight is an alliterative English verse romance from the late 14th century, narrating the adventure of Gawain to fulfill the terms of a "beheading game" against the magical Green Knight. It is considered the finest Middle English Arthurian romance. (Malory did not use this as a source, and as a consequence his Gawain comes across as a blustery, vengeful braggart rather than the dutiful and honorable hero described here.)

 

Steinbeck's Arthur is linguistically more accessible than Mallory. I haven't read the Once And Future King, so I can't tell you how it compares. I liked it though.

Grapes of Wrath is one of my all time favorite novels. If you think that's heavy reading... try East of Eden. That is heavy reading.

 

It would be unfair to let this discussion go without a mention of Bernard Cornwell's The Warlord Chronicles.

It is a trilogy set in post-Roman Britain, and speculates on the life of one of the possible candidates for the 'real, historical' King Arthur: a Romano-British warlord among the shriveling native kingdoms who attempted to forestall the onslaught of the Angles and Saxons who were conquering, destroying, and Germanizing England and Wales from east to west.

The trilogy draws heavily from the works of Nennius, and prominently features the historical battles of Badon/Badum/Bath and Camlann (also important in Nennius) and the entire story is thoroughly set in the early Dark Ages, where society is slowly reverting to near-prehistoric barbarity, while the memory of Rome is still strong in the minds of the people. No knights in shining armor or Romantic flourishes here, which gives this take a particular charm of its own.

The story is told from the perspective of Derfel Cadarn, who was a minor knight in an early incarnation of the Arthur legend (Mallory's, I believe, but not sure off-hand on that) which is also a different view of the tale than we're used to. In addition to the traditional ascendancy of Arthur and Arthur vs. Mordred story, the trilogy gives a fascinating perspective on the time period, with the cultural and political strife of the eternally-squabbling, factionalistic, Roman-minded British natives who were constantly bickering with one another while being encroached on by Anglo-Saxon and Irish invaders. There's even a short jaunt to continental Europe, which gives a look at the decline of Roman civilization in Gaul as Frankish barbarians invaded. The story also features the religious conflict between the ancient Druidic faith, the polytheistic Roman traditions, the Anglo-Saxon's own Germanic polytheism, the lingering effect of imported Eastern Mediterranean deities, and the slow tsunami of Christianity that threatens to overwhelm all of the others.

Cornwell also found ways to draw in nonhistorical characters from the more modern tales. Guinevere's inclusion is perhaps the most interesting and rich take on the character that I've seen. She no female cardboard cutout, but gets a real life of her own that travels across the spectrum from heroine to hated villain and back. Morgan Le Fay and Nimue are also given a relevant make-over. Lancelot's story is the most, ah, fantastic. Any Lancelot fans who do read these books will get a completely new impression, and understanding, of the fellow.

While it is a period piece and attempts to stay as faithful to the actual history of the conflict as possible, Cornwell has managed to find ways to include even the more ephemeral aspects of the Arthur legend. The Grail Quest makes an appearance, albeit in its original form as a quest for a historically-significant chalice, not the Christian icon of later stories. Excalibur finds its way in, as well as Avalon. Merlin is reimagined as a druid and significant religious figure. Magic also is utilized, but left vague and mysterious enough that it is never certain whether it really is magic, or just coincidence and superstition.

Just to top it off, the story is well-written and nicely paced. While it is very educational about the time period, and the political and cultural conflicts are historically accurate, the tale avoids becoming a textbook-style history lesson.

The books are as follows:

The Winter King
Enemy of God
Excalibur: A Novel of Arthur

 

For my Comparative Lit class in uni, we're gonna read Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, which is an Arthurian tale. Anyone here read that? As I get through it, I'll post analysis in the thread.

 

I love teaching the Gawain story. Remember there are big lessons being taught in that story. Notice all the symbols too. When I was getting my masters I started to do my thesis on the four women of Tennyson's Idylls of the King and how they represent modern woman. I go about halfway thru and had to put it away. It was just too hard to research it, teach full time, be a wife and mother. I actually switched to a book I was writing. I hope to one day go back to it. Oh yea, you forgot Tennyson's Idylls of the King. i could go on and on about that.