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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST The Sanctuary - (Dissenters Unite! - Warning on page 232)

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by BretHart, Dec 13, 2017.

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  1. JeeediMoriah

    JeeediMoriah Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 23, 2014
    What really irks me is that I feel I won't be satisfied until George Lucas comes out like 10 years from now and says everything we are saying now. I just need another Charlie Rose moment preferably without Charlie Rose and without odd allusions to slavery.
     
  2. JamieH

    JamieH Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Either he quite literally never watched another Star Wars film, or he is openly mocking them by refusing to play "in universe". I suspect it is the latter.
     
  3. oncafar

    oncafar Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    it's a reference to Satan.
     
  4. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    (my emphasis) Thing is, this pretty much is me - even past 40 - and no, I can't use it as an all-purpose escape clause for mistakes or errors - as reason for mitigation / understanding yes, but not absolution - never mind what Kylo's doing. And that's what I object to - the idea that Kylo doesn't really know what he's doing, or hasn't thought about it - he has - and drawn some pretty damn cold conclusions. Also, they've been emphasising Kylo's Force ability, a Force prodigy even, which undermines this strange young age defence that they've opted for.

    Admittedly, SW is massively problematic in this respect due to the Vader precedent, but by the end of TLJ Kylo has moved from the position of Vader to that of the Emperor. ROTJ took the tack that while Vader might be redeemable, the Emperor never would be. I have some scepticism that they would actuallly follow through on that, despite how TLJ ends. Let's face it - the end of ESB doesn't exactly say Vader is redeemable, does it? So, bait-and-switch?

    Then again, for me Kylo has never worked as a serious, credible villain. Comedy value? Sure. So it's unlikely I'm going to find any argument given for him to be that convincing.
     
  5. Nipuhanipera

    Nipuhanipera Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 25, 2014
    Next we'll probably hear someone say "good stuff" instead of "death sticks". That will be the last straw for me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  6. littlepadawan91

    littlepadawan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2016
    The only people who are actually excited about IX at this point are Reylos and podcasters who think they’re friends with Pablo Hidalgo on twitter. You know the type...
     
  7. Darth Smurf

    Darth Smurf Small, but Lethal star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Bastard? So he is not a Solo and finally did not kill his father?
    How shall Rey know? [face_laugh]
     
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  8. powerfulforce

    powerfulforce Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2005
    Can we not use the “young” age defense for Kylo? 30 is NOT the new 18. Yeah I know people who have yet to grow up and others who have started their own businesses in their mid 20s. When you’re old enough to have a kid in high school, the “young” excuse is already out the window. Kylo is basically a man-child and he’s given a pass because of his age. Did Anakin get a pass for his age? He was 22/23, an age when most are just finishing college and beginning their lives. Here he was already married, having seen war and about to be a father. But I don’t recall many using the “young” defense for him and he was criticized far more harshly. He didn’t grow up in a time of peace or have a life of relative comfort, yet Ben did and all I see are excuses for his behavior. He looks like a spoiled jerk in comparison to Anakin and that is not a compelling character whatsoever.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  9. SaintKenobi1322

    SaintKenobi1322 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 17, 2013
    Wow. That’s a fantastic post. Exactly right, all of it.

    I’d eliminate Cantino Bight. Many people who liked TLJ think it is too long, and this sequence is pointless other than for a misplaced political message. I am against animal cruelty as well; can we get back to lightsabers and let PETA do their job?
     
  10. Nipuhanipera

    Nipuhanipera Force Ghost star 5

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    May 25, 2014
    IIRC, Rian said that he basically viewed Kylo as an adolescent. Which is just... I have no words.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  11. obi-arin-kenobi

    obi-arin-kenobi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2005
    To put it into perspective, just reverse it. Put Jake Lloyd in place of Sam Jackson as Mace Windu in Attack of the Clones. "this party's over dooku"
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  12. Nipuhanipera

    Nipuhanipera Force Ghost star 5

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    May 25, 2014
    Kennedy also said that Kylo is "young within the context of Star Wars". So they both view him as a 30-year-old teenager. And both Rey and the audience are supposed to find that appealing, it seems.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
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  13. 11-4D

    11-4D Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 6, 2015
    Yeah. I don’t blame Lucasfilm for pandering to the Reylo crowd on Twitter, it’s literally the only group of fans that are passionate about anything in the new trilogy after TLJ.
     
  14. powerfulforce

    powerfulforce Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2005
    He’s young in the context of Star Wars? Can someone else take over instead of trying to pander to the lowest common denominator who still view 35 as “young” and “acceptable” to still act like a teenager?
     
  15. obi-arin-kenobi

    obi-arin-kenobi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2005
    I haven't read the entire quote or in context, but when you put the quote in context of his character in the film it isn't really that far fetched. He's young in the fantasy of the dark side. No character was ever shown like this in the saga before. Kylo is almost a continuation of a Anakins character post rots.
     
  16. Nipuhanipera

    Nipuhanipera Force Ghost star 5

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    May 25, 2014
    In all fairness, Edward Cullen is a 100+ year- old teenager, so Kylo actually has some catching up to do. ;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  17. oncafar

    oncafar Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 10, 2017
    Did KK say that? I can't remember. Calling someone "young" and not considering one responsible for their actions are two different things.

    But know also that one who is 50 may look back on some of their actions in their 20s as stupid or unwise. It reminds me of Morgan Freeman's character in Shawshank Redemption at his parole hearing when he was talking about if he could talk to that kid he used to be, he'd talk some sense into him. (I don't know how old that "kid" was BTW.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  18. powerfulforce

    powerfulforce Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2005
    To be fair he is perpetually stuck as a teenager for all of eternity, so he kind of has an excuse. That being said, it is still terrible for the ones in charge to chase after the YA crowd. Star Wars is supposed to be an enduring legacy series, not a flash in the pan that will be easily forgotten the second something else comes along.
     
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  19. Shadao

    Shadao Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 31, 2017
    There are ways to make a villain a genuine man child/teenager and not make them into an embarrassing and unsympathetic joke. Erik Killmonger comes to mind. It's clear in the film that he hasn't mentally grown since the loss of his father and acts childish in his pursuit of vengeance against Wakanda and the world. Yet, that only made him more threatening and scary rather than something for folks to laugh and mock at.
     
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  20. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Well, admittedly I'm going by the info solely posted here in terms of what was said, but overall I do get that sense from it. Why bring up Kylo's age at all? What difference does it make? It does look to be about diminishing or undermining a sense of culpability. I'm finding it hard to see another reason for it in this area.

    I'd agree that there's nothing that says someone cannot be young and responsible - one of my friends is 12 years younger than I am but is a damn sight smarter.

    I'd agree too that, regardless of the actual age, anyone who has grown up to any degree, will look back on some of their earlier actions and evaluate them quite differently to how they likely saw them at the time. But even so, there is a reason the social expectation shifts depending on age - what is Ok at 20 may not be so at 30, and so on as you move through the decades.
     
  21. 11-4D

    11-4D Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 6, 2015
    Meanwhile we have an 8-year-old being told he's too old to be a Jedi... Lol.
     
  22. oncafar

    oncafar Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 10, 2017
    @Jedi Ben I went back and found it.

    "One of the most interesting aspects of Kylo Ren is his young age. Most of the time, villains are damaged, troubled and older. Making the new Star Wars villain a 30 years old man was a captivating choice."

    I think she just liked having a younger villain who's not a cyborg?
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
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  23. wobbits

    wobbits Force Ghost star 4

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    Apr 12, 2017

    This KK interview quote drives me nuts in regards to Kylo and the whole not being held responsible for his actions.

    "Kylo Ren seems to have taken many bad decisions, but they aren’t necessarily bad decisions within the context of Star Wars, where they can lead to almost anything."


    At what age is it considered ok to murder? When is that not a bad decision within the context of Star Wars? Apparently when you are writing a 30 year old man who acts like a spoiled adolescent who claims one minute that Han would have disappointed Rey as a father and then doesn't hate his father but RJ wants the audience to feel bad for this character because of said parents?

    If it's ok to murder your father at 30 in the context of Star Wars because you feel neglected by him, then what about Anakin avenging his loving mother's death at 19?
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  24. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    While watching the ST I definitely thought to myself "one of the most interesting aspects of Kylo Ren is his young age." And regarding Rey I thought "utterly fascinating that her character wears arm thingies."

    Who needs Luke when you have a new generation like this one!
     
  25. wobbits

    wobbits Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 12, 2017
    I wasn't gauging his age in TFA until Rian's interview that tried to put emphasis on his "adolescent" issues and supposed parental neglect.

    Now I'm focused on age and the unjustified temper tantrums of a 30 year old.
     
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