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Discussion The Sanctuary - (Dissenters Unite! - Warning on page 232)

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by BretHart, Dec 13, 2017.

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  1. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    I really think it’s as simple as they’re tone deaf on Kylo. In the modern world, how do you not see the privileged white boy mass shooting his peers and killing his unarmed, loving dad as obviously not universally sympathetic? Yet they treat the character as obviously relatable. KK’s interviews are annoying, but I’m pretty sure it was RJ that said everyone could relate to him. That’s true, if by “relate” they mean, “identify him as a school shooter parallel.”
     
  2. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    Both likes Kylo Ren and think in him as a teen, now we know why Lucasfilm give a trilogy to Rian.

    Rian: I think Ben is just a 30 years old teenager and we should focus in him
    Kathleen Kennedy: omg, finally someone understands me! you deserve a trilogy!
     
  3. wobbits

    wobbits Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 12, 2017
    I was just reminded of an article that points out how every time Adam Driver is interviewed and asked about how it feels to play the new Star Wars villain, he always says that he never felt Kylo Ren was a villain. :oops:
     
  4. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    Except at least AD compared him to a terrorist... didn’t he? Is a very apt comparison.
     
  5. Alliyah Skywalker

    Alliyah Skywalker Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 18, 2017
    I think Adam Driver is a charismatic actor but if I`m honest with myself, the sole reason at this point I`m interest in Kylo Ren is that he is a member of the Skywalker family line. And I`ve liked THEM and been invested in them for so long. But mostly I love Luke, Anakin and Leia. Yes, and I loved Han meaning that until now I liked the Solo "family" as well. If Kylo Ren was really just Kylo Ran-dom, I wouldn`t give a crap about him.

    And sorry, Kylo Ren is a villain by any standard. He joined an evil regime, he stands by while that regime blows up billions of innocent civilians. He personally killed an unarmed old man who was apparently a family friend. He gave the order to kill villagers in cold blood. He killed his own father. What in the holy hell else would be needed to call him a villain?

    I really do like Anakin as a character. And I felt pity for him when he burned in agony but when he decided to lead a bunch of stormtroopers into the Jedi temple to slaughter all his former comrades, when he personally killed kids who trusted him to look out for them - he became a villain. And he was a villain for two decades.

    Kylo is more than old enough to know what is right and what is wrong in terms of acceptable. He can justify things to himself if he wants and feel like the little victim but he is what he is. Which is morally corrupt.
     
  6. wobbits

    wobbits Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 12, 2017
    @AhsokaSolo I missed that interview. I'll go look for it.

    @Alliyah Skywalker I agree with that. But for me, I've lost interest in Kylo. He's not relatable, not sympathetic and not a good villain. I honestly do hope the Skywalker line ends with him. And that's hard for me because I do love Shmi, Anakin, Luke and Leia.
     
  7. Alliyah Skywalker

    Alliyah Skywalker Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 18, 2017
    I can get that. At least Legends gave you Jacen, Jaina, Anakin Solo and Ben Skywalker as extension of the family. And only one of them turned evil and that only with believably motivation. Which reminds me, Alanah, Jacen`s daughter, would also be part of the bloodline. So that`s five more people, even if you don`t count people joining the family by marriage.
     
  8. 11-4D

    11-4D Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Yeah, he's said both those things at separate occasions.. Sympathetic terrorist who's not a bad guy. Sounds good.
     
  9. Nipuhanipera

    Nipuhanipera Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 25, 2014
    Apparently, Rian also liked a tweet where someone wrote that at the end of TLJ, Rey was heartbroken because she couldn't be with Kylo, or something like that. [face_sick]
     
    DBPirate and kalzeth like this.
  10. wobbits

    wobbits Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 12, 2017
    I have actually never read any of the EU except for Darth Bane series.
     
  11. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    I'm inclined to see that as an actor explaining how he does his job, as opposed to some statement of fact.
     
    Lost_Hope likes this.
  12. powerfulforce

    powerfulforce Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2005
    That does it, new goal in life is to get hired by Disney, climb the corporate ladder, get control of the Star Wars franchise and hit the reset button. If THIS is what they aspire to make Star Wars to be, it needs to be thrown out before it gets even more convoluted. No more Death Stars, evil empire vs small band of rebels, and enough with the Jedi being wiped out and having to be rebuilt again starting from one lone savior. Not only are they doing a poor retelling of a greater story, they’ve destroyed the old and new characters. The original characters were made irrelevant and the new characters aren’t really memorable. There is no camaraderie between the new trio and they clearly want to make their villain be some YA novel reject “He’s so bad and mysterious, don’t you want to change him so he can love” It shouldn’t have come to this and they’ve really backed themselves into a corner. Characters like that are forgotten and when you have a franchise that has stayed in the public eye and remained relevant for decades, that is the last thing you want.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
    DBPirate, EECHUUTA, kalzeth and 6 others like this.
  13. 11-4D

    11-4D Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2015
    [​IMG]
     
  14. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    ^^^So what drama is there in that moment for those that don’t see romantic drama? What story is left? I was looking for Rey to be pissed that he’s committed to slaughtering her friends after all, after he degraded her, but there’s not even a hint of that. It’s just angst-ridden sad-face, awwwww.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  15. 11-4D

    11-4D Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2015
    What's left? Rian's new trilogy, GoT guys series, Jon Favreau's live-action series. This trilogy is for the YA novel fans.
     
  16. powerfulforce

    powerfulforce Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2005
    Why would many care about the new ancillary characters after they basically threw the original iconic characters under the bus so to speak?
     
    DBPirate, Draninus, kalzeth and 5 others like this.
  17. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

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    Feb 28, 2016
    "Okay he tortured me, killed my father figure and almost killed my best friend... But my vision of his future is wrong? oh no :("
     
  18. Alliyah Skywalker

    Alliyah Skywalker Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Because they build those kids up slowly over several novels - at first in the background of adventures of the OT characters - and then later in their own junior novel series, they were quite fleshed out and you could love them as characters in their own right.

    Jacen Solo, the one who went bad, had a trademark in those junior novels: he was always telling really bad puns and jokes to make his friends laugh, especially that one very serious girl. Then in the final novel with the character after he had fallen to the darkside (with a mountain of relatable backstory), each chapter in that novel had one of those old bad jokes at the start of the chapter. To me it created a very visceral sense of loss for the kind-hearted, funny person he used to be to the description of who he was now. THAT kind of connectivity really spoke to me emotionally.

    That`s the thing. You can get away with that kind of longing from an orphan for a newly discovered parent. Even if they have had no good impression whatsoever of that parent ,and Luke had at least a backstory from Obi Wan a la "good parent", "great Pilot", "cunning warrior" so he can legitimately have wondered and yearned for that person.

    It`s also feasible in a romantic context in reverse. Which was Anakin and Padme. She knew him as a good man, she fell in love with him. And while she had an inkling of some darkness, she also never would have dreamed of him slaughtering little Jedi kids or anything like that. As, conversely, he wouldn`t have dreamed of doing such things either roughly until 10 minutes before he did it

    But they were husband and wife, she was expecting their first child. That she tried to make an emotional appeal to him for a final time, that she wanted to hold onto some belief in the Anakin she knew, that is understandable.

    What connects Rey to Kylo are apparently the force-skypes. Well, I`ve seen nothing in them that would explain this sudden romantic outbreak. And we didn`t see their visions of each other so "just roll with it, it`s YA" doesn`t really work for me that well.

    I`m not adverse to shipping. When I was more in the target audience for what is now YA (and there was always stuff like it, kinda), I shipped. But even then I needed something more for my couples then this. I was starry-eyed for Buffy/Angel once upon a time. Well, when she met him, he was a good guy who protected her. He became evil after they had fallen in love so her trying to hold onto him and trying to get him back via re-souling made sense. What wouldn`t have made sense is if she had met Angelus first and for some idiotic reason fallen in love with his puppy-killing ways.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
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  19. Blastaar

    Blastaar Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015
    just a small tweak.
     
  20. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    us: I hope Lucasfilm will notice the criticism and will change to better
    Lucasfilm:
     
  21. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 23, 2015
    I like Jon Favreau, but it’s like they sabatoged him by announcing today given their reputation on exactly this subject.

    I just hope this show doesn’t have a female protagonist. I’m quite sick of LF hiring men to write for women and then giving us a parade of forced intimacy.
     
  22. Nipuhanipera

    Nipuhanipera Force Ghost star 5

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    May 25, 2014
    According to LFL themselves, the dissenters are still just a small, vocal minority.
     
  23. JamieH

    JamieH Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015
    What the what? Luke was a teenager in ANH. Anakin was a little boy in TMP and a teenager in AOTC. Maybe ROTS too--not sure if he was over 20 at that point. Padme was a teenager in TPM and I believe AOTC--not sure on the latter. Leia may have been a teenager in ANH.

    Star Wars has always been somewhat age agnostic. Both sides, good and evil, have had members young, middle aged and old. The idea that Kylo Ren is somehow "young" for Star Wars is not just silly, it's plain wrong. Has KK actually WATCHED a Star Wars movie?
     
  24. JamieH

    JamieH Jedi Knight star 2

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    Dec 25, 2015
    BTW, any character that would want to be romantically involved with Kylo Ren is inherently an evil character, full stop.
     
  25. sls062286

    sls062286 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 10, 2016
    I think she means more, as a villain. Most of the Villanova in Star Wars tend to be older the Emperor, Dooku, Vader during the OT.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
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