ST The Sanctuary - (Dissenters Unite! - Warning on page 232)

He said he couldnt write a Finn and Poe story? Wow now I know the guy lacks imagination. TFA practically gift wrapped the character development that could come with interactions between those two.

 

Yeah he claimed Finn and Poe were too similar as characters to write together.

 

The fact that the script tries to moralise and have Rose tell Finn that sacrificing himself is wrong contradicts so much in this movie. Rose's own sister sacrificed herself to save others, as did Holdo minutes before, and Luke's about to minutes later.

I guess they died saving the ones they love instead of destroying the ones they hate? Well, Luke didn't destroy anything to save the Rebels (besides his dignity by not actually showing up in person), so he can fall under that, I guess.

But Holdo and Paige blasted thousands of people they hate, and the movie didn't criticise their actions.

So it's just Finn who's an idiot. For doing what everyone else was. For godsake Rose, it's not like you can fight a war without, you know, fighting your enemies.

 

Wasn't Rose the one blathering on Canto Bight about how much she hated that town and wanted to stick it to them. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

The novelization is interesting so far in that I think Poe might understand Finn a bit better than he knows. Finn thinks Poe doesn't know that he isn't necessarily committed to their cause. But I think it's that Poe does know and is understanding because he knows where Finn comes from. I think maybe he sees Finn is one of them in his heart but still needs time to figure that out for himself. Rather than criticize him for his Rey focus he says that he too wants Rey to be safe but that this is bigger than just Rey; bigger that any of them.

 

Yeah, a defected storm trooper kidnapped as a baby and ace pilot. Totally the same. Its like Rian had this vision and refused to use anything in TFA to his advantage unless it matched with that.

 

His understanding of what he inherited was just atrocious across the board.

 

I am laughing and grossed out this morning about the Finn/Rose nonsense in the novel. I had been reading positive reviews of this novel. So let me get this straight - the novel has Rey more explicitly having the hots for Kylo, who also more explicitly has the hots for Rey, and Rose is jealous because Finn can’t stop thinking about Rey, but he insists they’re just friends. Did I miss anything? Have SW fans around the internet become diehard 90210 fans as well? How about Dawson’s Creek?

 

I brought this up in another thread, but it seems worth talking about here. So if Reys parents sold her to Unkar, shes a slave right? So why does he need to trade good for what she gets? If she belongs to him, then by default everything she finds belongs to him too.

 

What I like about Finn and Poe is their chemistry and I would have loved to see them together due to that. If Poe is nurturing and supportive of Finn, then maybe the thought was he wouldn't challenge him. Rose doesn't understand Finn like Poe does, and is critical of him, which challenges him.

But still the Finn/Rose dynamic was a bit flat. How can Rose challenge Finn when she just says her POV all the time and he barely says his?

 

Because Rian Johnson didn’t write a story that followed TFA. He wrote his own head canon, whether it matched or not what came before.

I mean, it’s quite telling that in the moment he had opportunity to give a straight, simple and unquestionable answer to Rey’s parents, he still somehow managed to come up with a strange story that doesn’t even remotely fit with Rey’s vision in TFA or her characterization whatsoever.

Also, “my main female character has a poor, terrible, traumatic, ultra-horrible past” is a common trope in fanfiction. Especially in fanfiction that is entirely about making said female OC to be the object of affection of a male character.

 

I was leaning to Rey being abandoned from TFA. It's not that far fetched at all. It's not something that doesn't "remotely fit." The only aspect of it that is off is how the ship is leaving Jakku in Rey's memory, as it would have had to land (or crash) later for her parents to be buried on Jakku. Since this is so glaring, it seems impossible that RJ didn't notice or think about it. There is probably more to this story, IOW.

 

Like I said, nothing in TFA awakens indicates Rey is a slave. It indicates that she looks for junk to trade to Unkar for food. If you own someone you don't trade them for whats "yours" anyway. That scene from TFA isnt out of place because its a vision and TLJ indicated that Rey had delusions that her family was coming back.

 

Rey being abandoned by someone was obvious in TFA. Being a slave goes completely against her characterization, as she had business dealings with Plutt and was free to leave the planet whenever she wanted (it was even pointed out in TFA).

More than that, her parents "selling her for drinking money and then dying in Jakku" doesn't fit with a vision of a nice ship she saw her parents leaving inside. It also doesn't make sense why she would have the memories of her parents' graveyards.

 

This goes back to how people are thinking of "slave." But I've said this so many times I feel like a broken record. All of the scavengers are slaves of Unkar because he owns all the ships and all the food. They have nowhere to go. Unkar also doesn't keep a tight handle on all of them and Rey and Unkar have been undergoing this battle of wills. She moved as far away from him as possible, almost like she's telling him, "You don't own me." In the TFA novelization, Unkar however seems to think he does as he doesn't only want to retrieve the MF after Rey takes it. He wants to retrieve HER.

In Rey's Forceback, Unkar is physically restraining her. It's kind of like he thinks he has a *right* to do that.

I saw Rey as an indentured servant in TFA who must labor for Unkar or starve. That's hardly the definition of freedom. However, Rey, unlike most of the other scavengers, knows how to pilot. THAT is what made her free to leave whenever she wanted. And she taught that to herself via a flight simulator. She has taken strides to liberate herself from Plutt in general.

Unkar doesn't need to keep a tight handle on these people. Most can't fly, most can't build a ship. So their only hope is that someone will agree to take them on their ship or that they can stow away. I actually don't understand why more don't try that, myself.

ETA: Oh, the other thing about Unkar is that he controls the "law enforcement." Constable Zuvio answers to him. Everyone answers to him.

 

Rey has her own house and speeder. Making her a slave ruined one of the most interesting things about her established in TFA - her agency in her independence on her wasteland home. At this point, we should just assume that when Rey is ever granted agency, it will be stripped from her.

 

By the way, why did Poe contact Maz all of a sudden? They don't even know each other.

 

So this is where I would like to remind everyone that argues that the novels matter, Rey was not a slave in Rey’s survival Guide.

 

Because TFA set up Maz as some sort of major supporting character for the new trilogy, even being voiced by an academy award level actress. But 9/10ths of the way through making TLJ they realized Rian hadn't used her yet, so they slapped a crap scene together in 5 minutes to include her?

 

I totally agree that TFA doesn't depict Rey as a slave. So maybe I missed something, but where did this point of contention come from? What says that she was a slave? If it's just the "your parents sold you for drinking money" line again, well... like I was saying recently, we don't really know what exactly Kylo could get from Rey's memories (suppressed memories or not), and we also don't really have a good reason to trust what Kylo says anyway.

 

Im not going to get my hopes up that line is any more than a retcon. I know Rian said JJ could change it if he wanted, but Im not getting my hopes up.

 

I think it's as simple as Rey's parents want something from Unkar and Unkar doesn't just GIVE people things. He's greedy. So he's like, what will you give me in return. Hey, I will take that child of yours. She can clean parts and do whatever other menial things need to be done. That would make it worth my while.

Unkar is more like a feudal lord than a pre-Civil War southern slave owner.

 

If he paid for her I dont see how he wouldn't consider her anything but his slave. If he were indeed that greedy hed give her just enough food to keep her alive and take anything she found as his own. Theres no reason to give her food based on what she finds or allow her to leave if she wants.

 

He DOES act possessive of her in the TFA novelization. He didn't like that she left. It wasn't just about her stealing the Falcon, he treats her like he has some right to her. He gives her food because she is his best scavenger. If he doesn't feed her, she will die, and then he won't get all the parts she scavenges. He's making money off the scavengers. It wouldn't serve him to not give them food. He gives them some tiny barely sufficient portion for what they bring him which is worth way less than the money he makes selling those parts, especially considering that he didn't pay for the portions to begin with, as they were left from the Empire.

 

I think it's far simpler to point out that RJ didn't know what he was doing rather than going through these plot contortions to justify his self-inflicted plot holes. Nothing you say is going to change the fact that it's ultimately a contradiction and ultimately a difference in creative vision rather than some absurd application of space feudalism.