ST The Sanctuary - (Dissenters Unite! - Warning on page 232)

To be fair, Luke almost did kill Vader at the end of ROTJ. But he pulled back at the end, and spared him. Much as he did in TLJ with Kylo in the flashback scene. The problem is that this point is made a lot clumsier in TLJ than in ROTJ, because Kylo is unarmed and sleeping, and Luke “tells” us that he saw Kylo’s evil future. It was a classic show don’t tell violation, IMO. Which the film is guilty of in a number of places.

 

^ Sorry - I really disagree EDIT: about ROTJ Luke in any way being comparable to TLJ Luke wrt his aggression against a dark sided family member.

Apprentice Luke being goaded into attacking an aggressive Vader (whom he ALREADY had ample evidence of being a homicidal cyborg maniac) cannot be equated in my mind, with JEDI MASTER LUKE of 30 years experience being goaded into almost attacking a defenceless and sleeping Ben on the insubstantial evidence of a "future vision".

ESB Luke learnt (I think) that the "future is uncertain" etc etc etc.

TLJ Luke seemed to have lost all ability to remember anything from the OT.

EDIT: But I do take your point that perhaps SHOWING us what on earth Ben DOES in the future to justify Luke's actions, rather than just telling us, would've made it a bit more palatable.
My only solace is that perhaps in IX, we will see what Luke saw - though if Kylo Ben is still really not happy about the whole dark side / ultimate power / taking over from grandpa schtick, eh. No.

 

Pre-final post. All (no actually) the thoughts i have about TLJ and ST.

-Few years ago, after TFA release i said this.
"So this is how SW Universe dies... with thunderous applause."
-New EU wasn't worth of killing of the old EU. No engaging characters, no relevant stories.
-I saw people clapping to primitive copying. I was confused by the lack of premise. Back then i have already seen the potential problems with Luke's backstory. I knew they won't be able to write him off properly.
-ST story is a joke of a writing. So much rules broken, so much missteps, so bad execution of characters, such h a wrong messages been sent to the audience.
-RJ is an extremely weak story writer. He is the fanfic level writer. He put plot before characters, he doesn't use properly the Chekhov Gun's - that means his story is not engaging and delivering.
-RJ felt like the student who learns all these old school and modern techniques of shooting and throw all of the into his movie. He doesn't care about the proportions, he doesn't care about some of these techniques don't actually fit each other, he doesn't know the measure.
I hate when some dude on twitter posts the comparison between TLJ shot and the shot from some classic movie as an example of how great RJ is. I hate it because taking something from classic movie doesn't make your movie classic. I hate it because usually RJ put these techniques in TLJ without the thought just for the sake of putting them. He doesn't care about the cake's look and taste. He cares about the number of expensive ingredients thrown into it.
-Goddamit ST felt like the some sci-fi movies with the label "Star Wars" attached to them.
-Disney thought the audience are fools, with poor taste and lack of knowledges about aesthetic. They think they gonna throw Tie-Fighters and X-Wings at the audience and that would be enough.
Im fed up with Tie-Fighters and X-Wings and At-At! TFA! RO! TLJ! Do they really think these cheap tricks are gonna replace Lucas' genius?
Looking at TFA reception - yes, they are probably right. Audience is eating that and asking for more; And that hurts.
-Disney cultivated the bad taste in the audience. They cover it with mass of excuses: subversion, freshness, cultural progressiveness, and stuff. None of that is bad, yet all of that cover the hack work, laziness and zero creativity below the surface.
-Adam Driver is bad as Kylo Ren. He is wooden. He can't show the force of anger in his face, besides body movements when he slashes and break the stuff, i don't believe in his tears of angst, his voice is too emotionless and rough. Id prefer AotC Hayden for Kylo Ren type of character, honestly.
-New characters are cardboard. They are lifeless. Their fans see only the set of features in them (bravery/anger/tears), not real human thoughts and feelings. Writers failed to fill them with the life, and actors failed to bring the life inside them. The best written characters/best casted and acted actors are BDT' DJ and Krennic. Both character were written as a classic archetypes and both actors released their full potentials. DJ giving back Rose' necklace is the best character moment in ST, seriously. Thats how you should hook the audience with character.
-Look at OT last scene with smiling Luke looking at his teachers and father, who looked back at him proudly. TFA premise/TLJ execute is top 10 anime betrayals in a history for Luke' character. You should never continue your character's arc like that. Never. Its forbidden by the law of literature.
-New EU has no purpose and point (besides making the money). What ST is about? I can see what are they went for, but they stucked into the bushes and missed too much steps. PT was about the corruption and fall. OT was about the redeeming and fighting the oppression. ST is about... finding your own way, except characters don't actually try to find anything.... Bond villains has better explanations and motivation for their crimes than Kylo Ren desire to destroy republic, just said.
-And i hate when they try to fix the wheel that worked perfectly. The Force prior ST has perfect balance of mystery and explanation. They ****ed it up bringing some unnecessary complicated elements like "stronger the light stronger the darkness" they don't even care to explain anyway. Ha-ha! Look, they ****ed up The Force just to excuse Rey/Kylo OPness!
-I think the best way for SW to continue now is to end Skywalkers/Rey/Kylo stories in Ep9 and go to the Old Republic. The future in GFFA is under the danger given how uncreative LF story writers are. I don't want to watch more of "Rebels vs Empire" stuff under the sauce LF gives us. Old Republic still has enough things that were not broken (yet) to build the healthy trilogy around.


p.s. When i think about the 100% opposite movie to RJ's creation i think about the Prince of Egypt. Thats the movie that uses all the literature tropes and cinematography techniques right. Thats tasty cake.

 

Yeah, I guess the time has come for me to take a long break from SW. A real one this time. I'll miss you all.

 

Same here...Every Memorial Day weekend since I can remember has been SW themed to celebrate with good friends, family, and memories of seeing the films along with a marathon of the films in some fashion or other (sometimes in the form of drinking games in my youth lol!).

This will be the first time in my life this will not be an occasion. My friends and family all feel the same way about TLJ - so thanks again Mr. Johnson for your wonderful contribution to Star Wars!

Thank you all for your insights into TLJ's shortcomings which has helped me personally get over the broken feelings it left me with. The thread will close - and maybe the wounds this dumpster fire of a SW movie has left in us can close as well eventually.

Here's to my fellow dissenting brothers & sisters!! The Sanctuary's dead...long live the Sanctuary!!

 

Some people are hanging out at reddit's /r/saltierthancrait subforum (I don't do reddit). There's also THREAD FOR THOSE WHO HATED THE MOVIE over at The Cantina forum that's still kickin'.

 

Well if this thread does end soon I will leave with it speaking about my favorite scene of TLJ. The Yoda and Luke scene. Now maybe one might wonder why. The answer to me is this. The lesson that scene imparts is if you try and fail, don't stop continue to try again. Hopefully LFL takes this to heart and tries to right the ship as it where with episode 9 and onward.

As someone who is middle aged this lesson is paramount to figuring out how to become a adult. Everyone who is has failed many times. But they have gotten back up and continued on trying to amend a challenge that they failed. Or you take a past failure and use the experience to be successful at a later date.

I often like to hang out on breaks from work, or at social gatherings with young adults (say early to mid 20's). I do this often because it brings me joy to see the youthful exuberance that I also once had. As well as being able to guide them to a success in whatever the journey they are on. Like Yoda's last line "they are what they grow beyond".

 

I'll just say that, as a Legends fan who was sad to say goodbye to the old EU but still open to see where the new canon would go...

I never thought the universe where Han and Leia's daughter has to kill her twin brother because he murdered Luke's wife would be the happier ending for the Skywalker family. Well done Lucasfilm.

 

I wish I had a cool GIF to give you all...

Also, I hope that this thread will not be deleted after being closed down. There is a lot of great material here.

 

Final post.

I loved to spend the time here and listen to all of your thought. You gave me ideas on things i didnt think of. During criticizing the movie we talked about every aspect of it, and none of other threads came even close to the level of discussion we had here. Thats was a good time.

We will meet again thought, since i dont believe Ep9 will turn out to be the saving grace for the ST.

p.s. Watched George Lucas' Strange Magic animated movie couple days ago. Despite typical George's cheesy moments protagonist (a fairy girl) and villain (bog king) were literally Rey and Kylo done right and their chemistry was set up right and porperly executed. Watch it and see, its a pretty nice movie, i enjoy it alot.

 

Good or bad timing for this to pop up today. Depends on your point of view I guess.

 

I just checked up a bit on the Solo news, and I realized I won’t be boycotting it. I just won’t go to see it, I can’t care enough to boycott it. I wouldn't say I boycotted Prometheus or Alien Covenant or Justice League. I just couldn’t care enough to go see them.

I never thought I would care so little about Star Wars. Last time I didn’t see Star Wars opening weekend, it was because I was in the womb when ROTJ came out (and I still got to see it in a second run theater, according to my mother).

Slow clap, RJ.

 

As much as I didn’t like TLJ, I did like Rogue One for the most part (except the flat characters), so until they mess up the anthology movies (which Solo might), I don’t think I’m mad enough to sit this one out.

Talk to me in a week, though. In a different thread, obviously.

 

Just picked up on something thanks to the cinemasins vid. If Poe doesn't know how one of the Resistance's own generals, Holdo, looks, or even what gender they are, then how in the hell do random slave children know about Luke's appearance in front of 20 people on Crait. How does information travel across the galaxy in days, supposedly 'lighting the spark of rebellion' or whatever, but Poe doesn't even know what a famous general in his own organisation looks like?!

Has Poe just never looked up his own superiors? And for that matter where was Holdo during the briefings in TFA? Was she just planning her suicide bombing back then? Was she the backup plan, hyperspace ram Starkiller base?

 

@DarthBrian

I remember Jeremy said he was disappointed in TLJ therefore I am not least bit surprised he gave it quite a few sins...but could been worse too.

@DominusNovus

The whole boycott idea is the silliest thing ever. Either you want to see a film or you don't. People who say I am boycotting just want attention. Sorry you feel that way btw.

@All_Powerful_Jedi

Yeah I am kinda in the same boat. My grades so far for Disney Star Wars films have been:

Rogue One: B+ (I actually enjoyed it more with repeat viewings)
The Force Awakens: B- (Kinda like it less then I originally did after repeat viewings but not much)
The Last Jedi: F

So if Solo can manage to make a passable grade then that will be three out of four Disney movies so far I gave at least a passable grade. Just that one turd was such a massive one.

 

Just watched that vid... it's riddled with even more issue than i remembered.
What critics saw in this movie... i have no idea.

 

@Nipuhanipera and @Darth_Tweakpiece , and @Harbour , I hope you will change your minds and not leave quite yet. I know that all of us will miss this thread, but it would be even worse to totally lose all of you to talk to on the boards.

I too am concerned about what will happen once this thread closes. Many of those who love TLJ don’t seem all that enthusiastic about sharing threads with us. I read some of the pages in the solo reactions thread, and it was pretty awful. I worry that they will continue to just ignore the fact that we have valid reasons for disliking this film, and instead of accepting that, lump all of us in with alt_righters and those who hate women and people of color. They seem to ignore the fact that many of us who hate the film ARE women and/ or people of color. They just have their set, approved agenda that one couldn’t possibly dislike this “masterpiece” of a film unless there is something wrong with us, either we are stupid in their eyes, or we are haters of women or POC.

But despite my concerns, I am going to try to stay for a while. I don’t want people who love the film to think we have changed our minds or that we don’t care anymore, or that we have just given up.
I hope I won’t be the only one. I would miss all of you!

However, if you do leave, I wish you the very best! Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I have enjoyed “ meeting” all of you. It has been nice to know that I wasn’t the only one who was profoundly disappointed in TLJ, and that others agreed that the way the OT films and characters were treated and disrespected was just terrible. As awful as it is, at least it helped to know that there were others who were sympathetic to the way I felt, because they felt the same way. We were able to support one another.

Many of you are so funny too, so thanks for the laughter in the midst of the pain of this lousy film! The Sanctuary has indeed been a place of sanctuary for us. I still don’t understand why it needs to close.

I will probably continue to post here until this place closes, but for those of you who are leaving, : May the Force Be With You... Always!

 

Pretentious deconstructionism. It's like crack to them.

It's happier because that is a true mythical story-telling devise. Even in its tragedy.

'The heroes of the previous story run away from the new conflict and then die' is not.

With you. It will also be the first Star Wars film I will be routing against in the box office prior to release. I want Disney to change their approach to Star Wars in every way. Losing money is the best possible wakeup call for a multinational.

 

We still have a couple days before the thread closes right? I'm still figuring out my final thoughts. <_<

 

I don't mean to get all sentimental, but you are one of my favorite posters here. I was super bummed when you said you were done around here back in the dark times of late December, 2017. But I really felt your pain. I know how much you love this universe, and Luke Skywalker in particular. And I really hated seeing what they put you through.

But, despite the dissatisfaction we all had with TLJ, we all got through it together. Through criticism, analysis, humor and a common love for what Star Wars used to be. See you all on the outside. I got your backs!

 

@LordDallos, thank you so much for your very kind words! I appreciate them very much!

 

@ChildOfWinds

I say keep fighting the good fight. The problem is with those who do not honor your opinion and dismiss it due to some already chosen reason.

 

In TFA, Snoke wanted Rey because she was strong with the Force and was able to resist someone on Kylo Ren's Force level.

In TLJ, Snoke just wanted Rey because he wanted to get at Luke Skywalker and kill her.

* Which may have been connected to what Han later says to Kylo Ren, that Snoke was only using him for his power.

 

The Sanctuary Thread when it gets locked, immortalizing its humor, compassion, collegiality and wisdom:


The last thing that TLJ sees after it dies and goes to SW hell:

 

Just wanted to say...