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Fanclub The Shado Varmiri: Fan Club of the various Force Sects in the Galaxy

Discussion in 'EU Community' started by Darth_Elu, Feb 26, 2017.

  1. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Calling @Gahmah Raan
     
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  2. Darth_Elu

    Darth_Elu Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2003
    No takers on that one evidently. :p
     
  3. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    In WotC's Ultimate Alien Anthology was the Force using prestige-class Mystic Agent illustrated with a chiss.
     
  4. Darth_Elu

    Darth_Elu Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Yes, I've seen some illustrations of Chiss Force Sensitives. They definitely exist, they're just rare and frowned upon in the extreme in their society.
     
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  5. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Can you expand on your reasoning here?


    Or it could be, similar to that we in Fantasy and some SF settings have all female mystic or elite warrior groups in rather patriarchal societies, that Hapes have some kind of mystical groups that are only open to males (or males and women that cross-dress*) but don't really challenge the matriarchal society since they are the exception.
    * Maybe the idea is that there is some kind of "male only magic" but when women are shown having talent for it and want to enter they have to begin to live as males in all possible ways.

    Possibly something similar to the ninjas in Ninja Assassin they have no loyalty to anybody but once paid their price they will finish the mission, and only a few people in the right positions know how to contact them. Maybe their existence is well known but how to hire them is not, and possibly do they have some people on their list that they will not kill (likely the Ta'a Chume and possibly Jedi) and maybe they only operate in certain areas, making it possible to evade them if you just leave the Consortium and never return (which is the same as death, politically speaking).

    You are confusing the monarchy's/Consortium's dislike for the Jedi for an overall dislike of the Force or Force users. A dislike for one don't mean a dislike for another, it's like saying that a dislike of mandalorians means that you most dislike all warrior groups.


    I can see this, possibly with an overblown idea of their own ability, knowledge or importance.


    No, no lightsabres. They are Jedi weapons, as in we only see Jedi and Sith (and the later have been gone for a thousand of years until the Clone Wars) use them.


    Just wondering, where and how is this esablished?

    Based on what little I know of them do either some kind of spiritual guides or something similar to Mentats in Dune (that use the Force instead of drugs) sound most likely. Elite spy and/or assassins are often always useful (either to use against external threats or for internal politics, depending on your society) so I can also see those.
     
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  6. Darth_Elu

    Darth_Elu Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Hm. Thought I replied here already. *shakes head at self*

    As for the Chiss view on Force Sensitives, admittedly I saw that bit of information on Wookieepedia. The site has usually done me well, but it is true that one must be careful with citing it sometimes.

    No lightsabers? No fun! ...But probably quite right. They would likely use a very cultural weapon of some sort. But I will note that there are some splinter groups that use lightsabers outside the Jedi and Sith. The Jensaarai for example.

    Elite spies is probable, yes. Assassins almost a guarantee. Or at least, that's how I feel. lol :p
     
  7. Gahmah Raan

    Gahmah Raan Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2015
    You called? Sorry for the late reply. I haven't actually been on the rest of the forums for a while.

    As far as I know, in Legends canon, the persecution of Force users among Chiss was heavily prominent during the Old Republic era, and I don't know if this idea was brought up before the "Traitor Among the Chiss" flashpoint in The Old Republic (if not, then some fanon lore of mine ended up being a little more prophetic in hindsight). As for modern times, a lot of cultural values can change in thousands of years. Perhaps they mellowed out a little if the presence of Chiss Jedi and Dark Acolytes during the Clone Wars is any indication, unless they are outcasts that were sent out of the Ascendancy before they could be found.

    In the current canon, they aren't anywhere near as horrible towards Force users, although the treatment they do exhibit towards them is questionable at best. In this continuity, Force sensitivity is usually prominent in young Chiss girls, but is typically limited to precognition, and they lose their connection as they get older. However, these girls get conscripted by the Ascendancy to be navigators - also known as Sky-Walkers - as soon as they show signs of Force-sensitivity, and then lose their role as soon as they reach a certain age and lose their connection to the Force.
     
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  8. Darth_Elu

    Darth_Elu Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2003
    It's very interesting that they lose their connection, from what I understand of the Force, such a thing shouldn't "just happen." I wonder if it could be surmised as a subtle mental block brought on by societal pressures?

    @Gahmah Raan
     
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  9. Gahmah Raan

    Gahmah Raan Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2015
    Well, either that or some other Unknown Regions weirdness. The Chiss call the Unknown Regions "the Chaos" and have the Sky-Walkers to navigate them for good reasons.
     
  10. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Zahn has actually introduced to us a Chiss Force using group - the Sky-Walkers. Predominantly female, they usually lose their Force sensitivity by the time they are teens, and rarely progress their skills beyond that of navigation, which is what the Chiss use them for. Canon has girls as young as 8 helping navigate outside Chiss Space.

    Male Force users being very rare works being as we have exactly one male Force user in both continuities, and even then only two other adult Force users that are female in Legends too, I believe.

    EDIT: I was ninja'd. Yesterday. chuckles
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2020
  11. Darth_Elu

    Darth_Elu Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2003
    It looks like I need to brush up on my Nucanon lore. :p
     
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  12. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Are the Sky-Walkers inspired by the Force Family? Or is the other way around?
     
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  13. Gahmah Raan

    Gahmah Raan Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2015
    It's a complete coincidence in-universe as far as we know (given the Chiss live in the Unknown Regions and the Skywalker family have been living in charted space). However, Thrawn does acknowledge the name similarities when talking to Anakin about them in the Clone War era chapters of Thrawn: Alliances, where this concept was first introduced.
     
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  14. Darth_Elu

    Darth_Elu Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Hm. I'll have to read that chapter, I think. [face_thinking]
     
  15. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    It could mean the Skywalkers really are vergance in Force, even appearing as the Sky-Walkers in another part of the galaxy; let me rephrase Skywalker is something the Force is willing. This makes the Chosen One prophecy more intriguing.
     
  16. Darth_Elu

    Darth_Elu Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Personally, I view it as someone from Chiss space long ago probably made their way to another planet in charted space and settled down there, eventually forgetting all about their origins. Given the title of the Chiss Sky-walkers, it would explain how they made it and show the Force potential already inherent in the bloodline. Only to be infused further when Anakin was conceived and had children of his own.
     
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  17. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Intriguing, do you think the Skywalkers is the Force trying to create a defensive system against Plagueis, Palpatine, and others? What I mean is even though Anakin fell, he does destroy at first The Emperor, but the problem is Sheev is the dark side’s bloodline trying to take over.

    I am seriously seeking wisdom on this.
     
  18. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    The Skywalker was as per Lucas original ideas the first Forceuser, aka Prime Jedi now. If Skywalker was a nickname due to the ability the Force granted him, like Jesus could walk over water, he could walk over air, or appear in the sky as apparaition on far worlds as the Mortis family could do as per Book of Sith, then many Skywalker names across the galaxy are derrived from these ancient ascriptions of an ability to Forceusers. The term thus is another world for Jedi or Forceuser and not a bloodline or family relation initially.

    Of course some names stuck and their offspring kept it as family name, Forceabilities or not, leading to lineages down to Shmi. It is interesting and kinda full circle that the Chosen One bears the nickname of the first Forceuser and Prime Jedi (who was or wasn't even human going by interpretations of the Ach-to yin/yang mural).

    Given the emphasis on the Dark Side and Sith selfdestructing actually over any champion defeating them:
    -Not Luke but Vader killing Palpatine
    -Rey, a Palpatine, destroying Sidious and not the Skywalkers
    and hence the Skywalkers only redeeming people, not destroying the darkness,
    -Luke redeems Vader
    -Ben healing Rey and before reassuring her to stand firm after she freed him of the dark side
    I am not so convinced the Chosen Ones of the Skywalker family are meant to destroy darkness or champion the light but rather assure its demise passively (as Lightsiders should ideally!).

    Why did the Force choose Shmi and Anakin? Or didn't it and actually Plagueis did? I mean, his experiments would lead him to Forcestrong subjects and I am sure given his research an ancient bloodline potentially dating back to the Prime Jedi might be of interest to him. Was it actually his experimentation on said bloodline or mindwiped Shmi that sealed the Skywalker families fate and not the Force?

    Did the Force choose them because the Sith had laid their eyes on them for their families ancient meaning and power? Or did the Force choose them and position them to be crossing paths with the Sith?

    Chicken and the Egg kinda.
     
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  19. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Greetings once more,

    I have discovered the Disciples of the Whills, and they have become my favorite Force sect outside the Jedi and Sith.

    Can anyone enlighten me on the Whills? I have a elementary understanding, but wish to learn more.
     
  20. Gahmah Raan

    Gahmah Raan Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2015
    I remember one of the last discussions in this thread being about Force-sensitivity in Chiss, and I mentioned that in the current canon, Chiss girls somehow end up losing their connection as they get closer to adulthood.

    In a video that Star Wars Explained posted today (and as the second book in the Thrawn Ascendancy trilogy comes out soon), Alex brought up the idea that this phenomenon might be an unfortunate byproduct of Chiss cultural influences. The process is as follows: Young girl shows strange precognitive and telepathic powers, Ascendancy conscripts her as a navigator and doesn't bother training her in anything else. And because the Ascendancy doesn't bother training her, the girl loses touch with the Force over time, which created a misconception among the Chiss that they are predestined to lose this ability once they are teenagers.

    Basically, the mere idea that these girls are on a timer for their "usefulness" really hurts their self-esteem (and it doesn't help that after they are cast aside, some families adopt them afterward purely to increase their political clout), creating a mental block towards the Force as they get older. And this isn't purely a Chiss thing; this is part of the reason why Jedi would rather train their own starting from childhood.

     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
  21. clone commander bossk

    clone commander bossk Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2019
    Found this post as i was watching the video! [face_laugh]
     
  22. Darth_Elu

    Darth_Elu Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Excellent, @Gahmah Raan! Thank you for sharing that. So my theory on it being a subtle mental block from societal pressures was likely spot on if SWE also shared the opinion and put out that whole video regarding it. Haven't watched yet, but I'll put that on my list of things to watch. (At work currently, so time limited)

    @clone commander bossk Just as The Force willed. :p And welcome to the Shado Varmiri thread! ;)

    @Kato Sai Apologies for not replying to this till now. I know you are currently off the boards, which I'm saddened by, but I will answer your question on the advent of your return.

    Here is the article on Wookieepedia, if you hadn't already found it yourself. Disciples of the Whills. Due to their seemingly passive nature, especially in direct contrast to the Guardians of the Whills (who are related but separate), as well as their in-the-far-background-lore status in the Nucanon; there is simply not much known about them at this time. However, they definitely were stronger proponents of a Balance rather than Light, Dark, or even a "Force is One" grey state.

    Sounds similar to a Force Order I created once that centered on its adherents radically keeping the galaxy to this supposed balance of the Force. Nevertheless, that is all the available information that I know of on that sect at this time. Hopefully they'll be expanded upon one day!

    The Whills themselves are the force behind The Force, so to speak. At least in George Lucas' original envisioning. You can read more about it: Here.

    What is truly canonically known about them is kind of a mess currently and extremely vague even during the Legends Timeline. So I can't speculate much. I am not a fan on the Whills or Midi-Chlorians (like most, I believe), but that should answer your inquiry I hope. Also, I still like the Disciples and Guardians of the Whills despite this and hope that a different direction is taken with what the Whills are/were. But that's a personal preference. lol
     
  23. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    I do prefer them being called M cells I must admit.
     
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  24. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Thank you for answering my query, especially in my absence. I am glad to learn I am not the only one who finds the Whills as they presented at this time to be a “mess.”
     
  25. Darth_Elu

    Darth_Elu Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Given what little is said about them, they are most definitely a mess. No other way of looking at it. Sad state of affairs, that. [face_dunno]
     
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