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Clone Wars The Shadow Collective

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by Fredrik Vallestrand, Apr 24, 2020.

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What Happened to the shadow Collective after Maul disappeared?

  1. It got disbanded after he disappeared.

    4 vote(s)
    57.1%
  2. It still active as of Rebels.

    2 vote(s)
    28.6%
  3. It quickly fell apart after Maul's death.

    1 vote(s)
    14.3%
  1. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018


    I thought I make Thread of the Shadow Collective as it as been a strong Thread throughout the clone wars and Solo. It inlvolves loyal Mandalorians that has branded his markings on themselfs, 3 of the five most powerfull crime famalies. Black Sun, the Pyke syndicate, Crimson Dawn, maybe other small crime groups. It was created By Maul so he could create his own Shadow Empire and rival his own Sith master Darth Sidious. It failed and and his Shadow Collective was hurt by attacks from CIS and Republic forces, but he rebuild them after while the clone wars rages on. We know know he still has control over it and has more of an iron grip on them then their earlier alliance, before the war ends they go into hiding to await the rise of the new Empire. The Mandalorian group of the shadow collective fights to the death as they want a warriors death and not go into hiding.

    I like to discuss here what future storylines do you see for them in the future from Clone wars to Rebels with Maul's death at Obi wan kenobi's hands. We know his shadow collective is still running during Solo, but for how mutch longer are they still in effect during Rebels? What did the collective do during the early imperial times and what happened to make Maul disappear?

    The leaders of Shadow Collective is. Black Sun: Ziton Moj. The Pyke syndicate: Marg Krim, Crimson Dawn: Dryden Vos. The shadow Collective: Maul.
     
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  2. Meeko Ghintee

    Meeko Ghintee Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2015
    Rebels left me with the impression that by the time of Twilight of the Apprentice Maul was more in the business of personal vendettas (i.e. screwing over Palpatine) than running Crimson Dawn. He was alone on Malachor and didn't seem to have criminal allies helping him out throughout the series. My guess is Vader and Palpatine led him to lose Crimson Dawn between Solo and Rebels (which is why Maul says he cannot defeat Vader alone-he has already faced him). Vader vs Maul and the Crimson Dawn would be an interesting story for me (a convo where Maul points out Vader's future as Palpatine's apprentice would be worth it alone). It also makes sense for the Empire to focus on criminal organizations in its early history (as, besides Separatist holdouts and early Rebel cells, what else is there?)
     
  3. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Same here but what if he still has contact with them but uses a proxy like Qira to handle the shadow collective and can't show himself as the empire is hunting for him by sending Inqusitors and Vader. Also now i wonder if by Rebels or before Rebels Gar Saxon was still a loyal follower, as he had intel in how to bring Maul down and he never did. If we asume Maul has only been on Malachor for a few months to maybe a year, The Shadow Collective will then have been active at least 15 - 16 years. It got started mid way through the clone wars in it's second year i think and disbanded maybe by the time Rebels begins.
     
  4. Ithorians

    Ithorians Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2016
    I have to admit, there was something that I didn't quite like in the creation of the Shadow Collective, and it was that it felt rushed. To me, it made it feel like these incredibly powerful crime syndicates weren't really that strong; anyone with the guts and the right amount of men could storm their base and kill their top leaders. The attack to the Black Sun Vigos was curious (all being in one place at the same time in that exact time felt a little convenient, and I preferred the not all Fallen version of it), but Jabba´s Palace was almost strange. I mean, anybody could steal/buy an Y-Wing and bomb the Palace easily, for what we see in that episode. I would have preferred at least for gamorreans not to be around, so Jabba´s hiring of them would be a response to this incident... but no, it all stayed apparently the same, even after Jabba got a lightsaber in his throat and was forced to submit to another organization.

    That being said, Crimson Dawn itself gives some really great possibilities; most interesting to me is the chance that they overplay their hand (or Maul gets betrayed) and end up being hunted by Vader and the Empire. Vader dealing with Maul was always more interesting in my mind than Maul vs Kenobi, because of Maul´s resentment towards Vader, and Vader´s remembering Maul from when he was just a kid, in Naboo. Darksiders have such interesting dynamics, I feel, and I would very much welcome seeing them deal with each other, thus explaining Maul being stranded on Malachor later on...
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
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  5. Meeko Ghintee

    Meeko Ghintee Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2015
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  6. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    My bet they still was active until Maul diappeared, then they fell apart. Crimson Dawn, Black Sun and the Pykes syndicate probaly wnet thir own way and sarted like they were before only interest in themselfs. Maybe after Maul disappeared Prince Xixor came to power and took the Black Sun to new heights. With Maul gone i could see a shift of power for the shadow collective and the rest of the underworld.
     
  7. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Yeah, the Crimson Dawn and Death Watch are both around post ROTJ.

    The fact is the Shadow Collective never fell apart after SOD, thats something to think about. Especially when many people thought it did, it did not. Maul retained all of the Shadow Collective assets and he reigned them in again . During SOLO he's still playing the syndicates against one another like he's doing this season. He had reconsolidated his power as I figured he would, as it made sense in the SOD storyline and fitting for the character. The Crimson Dawn is just another front organization in the end that he uses. His true motives are secretive and more tied to the greater picture. Maul is more tied to lore than initially known. With a lot of the star charts and artifacts Maul collected and Dryden under him, and Maul's knowledge of Dathomir, the secrets of the Sith, the Dark Side and Nightsister ways he's out for something. I foresee his resurrection like Darth Kraytt whom he shares similarities with.
     
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  8. Starwarsfan9000

    Starwarsfan9000 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2012
    So by the time of Solo is Maul still using the Shadow Collective or is he actually controlling Crimson Dawn as his official new organisation? Before the new episodes without this gap to fill in it was assumed it was a new organisation he formed but this puts it as it's own organisation formed by Vos it seems or he came to lead it from someone else. Also while none of the leaders spoke during the sign I kind of wish they did just to see if they could call Paul Bettany in for a line as Vos. I mean where else would he have an opportunity to play character again unless we do fill the gap of what Maul does before and after Solo that leads him to Malachor?
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2020
  9. Erkan12

    Erkan12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 27, 2013
    I think just like Hondo lost his space pirates crew by the time of Rebels, Maul lost his control over his criminal syndicates when they get closer and closer to the ANH Episode IV timeline.

    According to Filoni, someone like Maul is a big time player, so he shouldn't be around during the events of Battle of Yavin, because he says that you would think there would be an echo at somewhere due to Maul still being alive.

    Both Shadow Collective, and Hondo's space pirates doesn't exists for that reason. We've seen the greatest powers in the galaxy during the events of Battle of Yavin.

    The Empire.
    Then the Hutt Crime syndicate.

    That's also why the mandalorians lost very very bad and they were also hiding during the Age of Empire, and they were not a power that could stand against the Empire, and we don't have Force users characters like Inquisitors, Kanan, Ezra, Ahsoka (though only she didn't die, she was being locked up in malachor) because Tarkin said they are all gone and only Vader left from that religion, and he didn't want to believe that Kenobi was alive. Of course Thrawn wasn't there too because you would think there would be an echo at somewhere, because he is probably the best and the most skilled battle commander and strategist in the Empire's fleet. That's how Filoni decides his own canon story. It's understandable, but you can still criticize it. Because it's still a big galaxy, and people were definitely fighting at somewhere else, we don't need to see everything. And separating Ahsoka, was definitely a favoritism.

    Anyways those were kind of topic. The point is Shadow Collective was a powerful organization by ruling the all other Crime syndicates except for the Hutts, and it's clearly more powerful than the Hutt syndicate alone if they were still active, a powerful organization like that can't be alive during the ''old movies'' due to Filoni's logic.

    And if Crimson Dawn was still active after Maul's death, then they will say that the Hutts defeated or controlled their territories after some point between Solo and Rebels, and they will be weaker than the Hutts, due to the ''old movies logic''.
     
  10. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    The Syndicates of the Shadow Collective are under Maul's suzerainty and their rulers always follow Maul's command. He's the overlord, the supreme leader.
     
  11. MrDarth0

    MrDarth0 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2015
    In Rebels, everything gives the impression that Maul lost control of the Shadow Collective and that he's stranded on Malachor.

    Its just my personal fan theory, but I like to think that Sidious finally sent Vader to take out Maul and his organisation sometime between Solo and Rebels. That would give us an opportunity to have the Vader vs. Maul duel, would fit with Rebels and also makes sense that if Maul got too successful in the underworld, the Emperor again felt he is a potential threat and needs to be dealt with.

    And criminal organisations tend to be very competitive, so IMO the moment Maul is out, the Shadow Collective fell apart and all these organisations started fighting each other like they did before Maul showed up. That's typical organised crime behavior.

    And finally, that would also explain why Jabba and the Hutts are so powerful during the OT, as the Shadow Collective is not around anymore.
     
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  12. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Yeah it makes sense, Though i think Maul was the one who took actions and Palpatine responded by sending Vdaer. We know he wanted the fuel from Solo to use against the empire. Maybe he wanted to destroy an entire fleet of star destroyers. I think a few years after Solo a war starts with the empire and the syndicates. Maul and Vader fights to the death almost, Maul flees and Vader reports back to Plpatine. Qira takes over and tries to maintain control, but the shadow collective falls apart and all the syndicates part ways. The Black Sun is still powerfull after the OT, we don't know mutch of the pykes after Solo, Crimson Dawn seems to have been weakening after Maul and after ROTJ.
     
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  13. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    The Hutts are not that powerful, and we already saw Maul reign them in. The Hutt Cartel also fell apart post ROTJ following the death of Jabba. Its clear in SOLO that the Crimson Dawn is top dog. Jabba only forms an alliance with the Empire post ANH, because after the Death Star goes boom and they lose other battles, the Emperor needs the criminal underworld's resources to make up for their losses.

    The Hutts were but one of the Five Syndicates.

    As the Shadow Collective remains in tact, that also means that the 5 Syndicates were created and held together by the alliance that Maul formed post Clone Wars:

    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Five_syndicates

    Maul keeps them in all in check by them competing, infighting and rivaling eachother as Krim said, its very effective. Their leaders are all scared to death of Maul, from Krim, to Vos, to Qi'ra.




    I doubt Maul was stranded on Malachor with the story we have in SOLO and now TCW. We also know he can contact people with telepathy and has communication devices on his person. Malachor was also an important place in Maul's Sith training in his youth(Darth Maul comics and Age of the Republic), it was a place that held many secrets. Maul also knew his way around the pyramid and had access to it. Morever he was clearly playing around with Ezra to test him .
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2020
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  14. MrDarth0

    MrDarth0 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2015
    He seems pretty stranded in Rebels. And how would he know Ezra, Kanan and Ahsoka will arrive on Malachor at that precise moment? Or he was just hanging there for months, hoping this is the moment they'll finally arrive?

    And if he still has control of the Shadow Collective, why didn't he use it after he gets from Malachor?

    All points to Maul hiding on Malachor, after he lost control of his criminal empire.
     
  15. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Feige's #1 Fan and Ryan Church Aficionado star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    That sounds just a tad simplistic. These are highly ambitious and competitive criminals we’re talking about. 100% submission to an overlord doesn’t seem plausible.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2020
  16. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    It does when this overlord could just force choke you halfway around the galaxy.
     
  17. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Feige's #1 Fan and Ryan Church Aficionado star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Yeah, but I imagine they would find subtle ways not to comply. In ways that benefited them. Otherwise, you strip away the most interesting thing about the Star Wars underworld, and that’s its complexity, existing as it does in the gray. As soon as they just become obedient soldiers in Maul’s demonic army, it kills the world-building and turns everything into a cartoon. Yes, they can largely fall in line. But they need to maintain some freedom of action (even if it’s not all that wise given how threatening Maul is). These are rule-breaking ambitious people. They’d rather rule in heaven than serve in hell. And I imagine they’d try to at least subtly plot to weaken Maul’s grip, even as they benefited from him.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2020
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  18. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    The pyke leader seems more afraid of Maul then the other such as the black sun boss. They joined him willingly after he killed of the black sun leadership. I think he tried to force a megre with the pykes so together they could become stronger. Out of all the members of shadow collective, seems that black sun as done well for themself and be as strong as they were before maul or stronger. The hutts resisted maul and only wnet with an alliacne when maul came and attacked jabba. I think Maul and Jabba are probaly crime rivals in this era, black sun is trying to get up on top.
     
  19. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    SO with the finale now and Maul seemingly returning to the shadow colllective. How long did they stay hidden from the empire before resuming control of the criminal empire. Jabba might turned it to his advantage. Maybe Maul and the hutts had a small war. And did Maul stay hidden for 15 years or did display his power when ever he wanted.
     
  20. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    The Black Sun leader is leader by default, since he was the only one left alive after Maul had Savage cutoff all their leadership heads back in Season 5. He would submit or die, he chose the former. He gave them all the same chance, they refused, they died.

     
  21. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    So with this new show Bad Batch, i can see we seeing more of the shadow collective. Especally Crimson Dawn and it's leader Dryden Vos, they already have him animated in clone wars and this show will have the same animation. There's no way he was just an easter egg, He'll probaly play a major role in this show. Maybe the bad batch does some work for him, seeing as they are mercenary. We probaly get limited screen and episodes with Maul as he's the big player in the criminal underworld and he's more of hidden enemy. I don't think he goes out as mutch as he did in clone wars. We problay first see him in hologram talking with Dryden Vos.