main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Amph "The Sleeper Has Awakened" - DUNE DISCUSSION-

Discussion in 'Community' started by Snax Rebo, Feb 5, 2017.

  1. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 1999
    What! Sacrilege! The BSG reboot was incredible. Children of Dune was also excellent. Both things can be true!
     
  2. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Children of Dune was an adaptation of a novel.

    The BSG reboot was this:
    [​IMG]
     
    Beef_Sweetener and Rylo Ken like this.
  3. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 1999
    Guess I'll have to be content to wallow in my solo opinion...
     
    darthcaedus1138 likes this.
  4. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    My laugh for the day - the tagline to Wired's article about Brian Herbert:

    "Frank Herbert’s son is the keeper of the canon and the ultimate defender of his dad’s work."
     
    Bor Mullet likes this.
  5. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Water can be imported and it's not that hard to do an enclosed greenhouse. Why should it be so hard?

    And if you want to produce food in larger amounts or that can’t be grown in Arrakis' wild, a it's really good idea with greenhouses.
     
  6. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
    You're not alone. The BSG remake was quite probably the highest quality scifi tv show ever.
     
    Bor Mullet, Jedimarine and Rylo Ken like this.
  7. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
  8. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001
    @Gamiel

    Cool Images...but no Gurney? Bummer.
     
    Iron_lord likes this.
  9. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    I mean, this is one of the major plots of Dune - that the Fremen are secretly building up a sustainable ecology of plants to slowly transform the world. But there's a number of answers:
    a) Water traders - who operate by 'mining' the thin northern polar caps - have a monopoly on the water trade and aren't interested in competition.
    b) The Spacing Guild controls all interstellar trade. Considering that they rely on the melange from Dune, and their Navigators have prescient abilities, they probably aren't too keen on anything that might threaten their spice - like more abundant water.
    c) The sandtrout - the larval form of the sandworm - goes after and takes away any sources of water they can detect, which is the primary reason that the planet Arrakis is a desert world in the first place.
    d) Probably the most important of all, the only people that could afford to do this in the feudalistic society of the Empire don't give a **** about things like this - other than wasteful displays of extreme wealth like the greenhouse.

    I don't think starvation has ever been a significant issue in Dune. It's always been dehydration.
     
  10. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    We are not talking about dropping a ocean of water in the middle of the dessert but just importing enough water for a enclosed greenhouse in Arrakeen. I mean it's not like they don't have to import most of their technology and the nobles do take with them many family belongings as they move to Arrakis, what's stopping them from taking with them some water and arable earth? And I would see many nobles from greener world creating a greenhouse not to show of but just as a way to have a place that remind them of home.

    Even if we just had every ten noble house doing it should we be able to see more then one green house in Arrakeen by the time of the movie based on how long things have been going on.

    Also, Water traders actually threatening a imperial noble house? If they were able to do that then the noble house don't deserve its title
    As a noble house you are taking your people with you, people need food. If you want to have more people around than the guy before you there you are either going to have to also import food or grow your own.
     
  11. FatBurt

    FatBurt Sex Scarecrow Vanquisher star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2003
    The guild control everything that is carried on their haulers

    They tolerate smugglers because of the spice bribe

    They take MASSIVE bribes from the Fremen which prevent weather satellites from being installed

    Considering what they know of the relationship between the worms and spice I would imagine they would put an embargo on water being delivered to Arrakis so as to limit the chances of greenery being propagated across the world. They would believe the Freman goals to be an utter pipe dream and the little progress they have made to be enough to keep them encouraged. The guild are likely unaware of the catch basins full of water considering they and the Noble houses in general were unaware of how many Freman there actually were.

    Don't have too much water on Arrakis and it means less to steal from the cities and keeps the prices high for the water traders.
     
  12. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Just to be clear, are you guess working here or is that actually something stated?


    Actually, [face_thinking] since people in the cities don't wear stillsuits all the time and need to piss, should there be a sewerage system in at least the city (if nothing else than to take care of that valuable manure for later use as fertilizer), with a sewage treatment system, and one way to purify water is to have it filtrated through a plant system, so you should be able, without any real problems, to have greenhouses as part of the filtration system to make drinkable water, just by taking everything that's pissed out. [face_thinking]
     
  13. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Putting aside the amount of evaporation going on here, I think it's safe to assume that if the water barons have a monopoly, then the water recycling in the cities are under their control as well.
    Again, there has been nothing indicating that starvation has been a significant issue with the population in the town and the cities.
    The indication is that the 'minor houses' are the local aristocracy - planet-bound. They are relatively wealthy and powerful with regards to the planet only.
    And yes, the dinner party scene indicates that the water traders and the smugglers are indeed very powerful on Dune.
     
  14. FatBurt

    FatBurt Sex Scarecrow Vanquisher star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2003
    It's partial guess work but also clearly stated in the books that the guild control everything that travels on a highliner and clearly stated the Fremen are bribing the guild to keep satellites from monitoring the surface.

    Extrapolating from there is reasonably easy
     
    Lordban, blackmyron and Rylo Ken like this.
  15. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Huh? You’re definitely not alone. The BSG reboot has a massive fanbase and was critically very well-received. Considered as one of the finest sci-fi shows, it’s one of my personal favorite shows of all time. Admiral Adama is like a second father to me!
    I take it you don’t know a lot about water systems and how fragile they can be in arid environments - even in societies blessed with significant wealth and the latest technologies.

    Yes, in arid environments it is indeed hard to sustain large food-producing indoor greenhouses over long periods of time. The water-intensity of such endeavors makes them very, very hard, even with significant resources and massive water imports.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2021
  16. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 1999
    Ah, I’m not alone! Good :).
     
    Bor Mullet likes this.
  17. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    I'm the one who's alone. :(

    .... just the way I like it. I'm a contrarian bastard! :p
     
    Bor Mullet likes this.
  18. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Starvation was never my main point, just something beneficial with the possebility of food produce. I was more thinking of people replicating environments they are used to from their homeworlds as enclosed garden, or growing foodstuff that's can't grow in Arrakis wild that they want to eat, instead of having to pay to import it. Then I thought about that if you want to import more people than is standard do you either have to import more food, or grow it yourself.

    Feels like you are answeering a question I did not think I asked, or is correcting something, what is your comment refering to?

    Yes, but the governors are imperial noble houses, it feels that the water traders should not have the ability to stop the noble houses from importing water for their own use.

    But there is nothing that have been stated that the guild prevent the import of water or the technology needed to create enclosed greenhouses or similar? I'm not looking for guesswork here, but want to know if there is actually been statements that explain why it's seemingly so hard for noble families that have been given the right of governance (many which seems to be interstellar and very, very rich) to do it, since they have been coming and going to Arrakeen for thousands of years and seemingly only one seems to have done it.

    Fully admit that I don't know, but we can do it now and Dune-'verse have technology we don't have and the governors are really rich so they can afford the technology and manpower needed. And if you put it underground it become less arid.
     
  19. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    We “do it now” in very arid (and wealthy) environments primarily via the desalination of seawater, and in that case, for quite small populations. And there’s no seawater on Arrakis.

    And good on you for admitting you don’t know. I do. ;) And creating artificial environments that produce water (at scale - enough to sustainably provide food and water for large populations) in the middle of a desert, and with no fresh or saltwater source nearby, is incredibly difficult. And thus far, not sustainable.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2021
    blackmyron likes this.
  20. FatBurt

    FatBurt Sex Scarecrow Vanquisher star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2003
    The guild are explicit in their need for Arrakis to maintain the status quo. they and everyone believe the Freman aim to return the planet to a verdant landscape is nothing more than folly and are happy for the Freman to waste money in the process in "buying them off" over weather satellites.

    Don't forget, the Guild probably have more power than the emperor. families at war could be positioned side by side in a highliner and won't make an aggressive move because of the risk of guild retaliation but side by side with the emperor and they would still attack. Kanly doesn't exist in a guild highliner but does in the emperors presence.

    The Harkonen have also been in chare of the Arrakis fief for decades. there is nothing that has ever said that the greenhouse is new or old but it again is made clear in the books that it is there to flaunt wealth and prove to the freman that their concerns over water mean nothing to the ruling houses. They only need one to prove this, why would any other house major or minor spend the water wealth when there is a perfectly good example already in place when they arrive.
    Even Jessica was shocked by its existence when she first saw it because of the message it portrayed. They don't need another, another would be expensive and why spend the wealth when the example it is there to portray is already being portrayed.
     
    Iron_lord, Rylo Ken and Bor Mullet like this.
  21. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
  22. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
  23. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Do anybody know if the The Art and Soul of Dune book is any good?
     
  24. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2012
    I imagine if you like the Art Of Marvel, etc. books, you’ll enjoy this one too. So if you’re impressed by the costumes, sets, sand worms etc. why not?

    Like every other theatrical movie lately, I have to wait to see this.
     
  25. AutumnLight91

    AutumnLight91 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2018
    Thoughts:
    1. "Lots of exposition needed" lol
    2. "Plot told through ASMR whispering" ROFL
    3. "Minecraft fighting" ehhh...ok
    4. "Synder cut campaign"? Uh...reaching on that one. The extended version is available on the same disc on the opposite side
    5. Gingers are not evil. [face_plain] the actress playing Jessica in this is quite attractive I must say.
    6. "The Spice Girls" I mean...he's not wrong
     
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.