Amph "The Sleeper Has Awakened" - DUNE DISCUSSION-

The two Houses form a duality. The Atreides are unalloyed good; the Harkonnens unalloyed evil. Because of this, the Bene Gesserit don't consider either controllable (a point made very clear in a later novel) which is why Jessica was to bear a daughter that could genetically bind the breach.

The examples you give are evil but, in a modern-day Earth sort of evil. They're not "I'm the all powerful Lord of Geidi Prime and I'll do whatever I want" kind of depraved evil. It's the difference between a war criminal (Baron 2021) and a serial killer (Baron 1965 and 1984).

The current movie does something similar to Leto. There are several examples where this portrayal of the Duke shows him as someone who is not sure of himself. By showing doubt, he comes across as more approachable/likeable but, less certain of the rightness of his path. (Although, maybe all those images of the bull's head were supposed to communicate his stubbornness?)

By moving the two poles of the duality closer, both Houses begin to look like they are just being Machiavellian Princes. This then lessens the stakes of Jessica's failure or Paul's fate. Given the Reverand Mother's comments on the matter, perhaps that is where they are heading. Maybe we'll see Count Fenring in this telling.

 

I watched the movie. I thought it was pretty good, but it really suffered from only being part one of two to be completed who-knows-when. Zendaya got a big paycheck for staring and smiling.

So, I've never read the books. I haven't gone through this thread to see if anyone asked, but how should I approach it? Do Frank Herbert's original books provide a satisfying narrative conclusion or do I have to read the, uh, divisive KJA and Brian Herbert sequels? I really don't want to read KJA again.

 

The first book does from my opinion. Haven't read the rest.

 

They loved it! Having never read the book or seen any other screen adaptation of it, they got to be immersed in this universe with this phenomenal film, and that makes me kind of jealous of their experience.

My older son Severen and I watched the '84 David Lynch version late last night and he was cracking up at some of the scenes (shield practice really tickled his funny bone) and he actually gasped and had a Leonardo-DiCaprio-pointing-at-the-television moment when he recognized Patrick Stewart and Brad Dourif. He even said "Hey, that's Wormtongue!"

It was awesome.

 

It’s made 200 million world wide. It’ll probably make its money back unless it completely falls off

 

Perhaps sadly, Villeneuve has ruled out an extended version.

 

All we need are VFX finished scenes and I can remedy his mistake

 

Villeneuve mentioned back in August that he wants to adapt Dune Messiah, though anything after that is a bit up in the air.

 

Yes, but even in Machiavellian terms, the difference between a war criminal prince (who’s clearly sadistic - murdering the doctor who helped them infiltrate Arakeen), and the clearly good but slightly unsure of himself prince Leto, is massive.

 

Simple solution. Make the children older than nine.

 

Yup. McAvoy was quite good. Though another option is to cast really excellent young actors. Malick’s Tree of Life comes to mind, which was really carried by brilliant child actors (first time actors, too, if I recall).

 

Tree Of Life was very good. Alejandro Amenábar’s The Others also comes to mind, I thought both of those children were really great.

Anyway, if I recall correctly, the first episode (out of three) of the COD miniseries was basically Dune Messiah. And yes, the novel is less than half as thick as Dune, so they should be able to do that one in one movie to really complete Paul's story, as a movie trilogy.

 

The somewhat reasonable rule of thumb is to stop after Children or God Emperor if you decide to read more than one book in the first place - Dune is actually a pretty solid stand-alone novel. Some people swear by Heretics of Dune, but with the benefit of hindsight it's not worth getting yourself into the mess of the unfinished plot threads, as Chapterhouse is Frank Herbert's worst book and then... well...

I have a really angry rant about those stupid KJA & BH followups somewhere ITT, but it really just boils down to "they're bad writers and they're too interested in wrapping up questionable plot points they introduced in the first place."

 

Watched it this weekend at home. I've read the books, but that was a LONG time ago. I thought it was pretty good but not mind blowing. The score irritated me - big drums and sopranos "mourning". That was too predictable, imho.

 

The first Dune book nearly has the same relationship to sci fi that The Lord of the Rings has to fantasy. Maybe just shy of that. But in any case. If you read Dune that's plenty. If you read Dune, Dune Messiah, and Children of Dune you've really done all that can be expected of you. If you read all Frank Herbert's Dune books, fine. Please stay away from any non Frank Herbert Dune novels.

Edit: sorry I should have just qft'd Ramza's post.

 

The irony is that every one of Frank Herbert's Dune novels can serve as an "end" to the series, except the very last one.
His son claims his "grand finale" to the series he wrote with KJA is based upon hidden notes that his father left behind that no one else is allowed to see.