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Amph "The Sleeper Has Awakened" - DUNE DISCUSSION-

Discussion in 'Community' started by Snax Rebo, Feb 5, 2017.

  1. Snax Rebo

    Snax Rebo Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 1, 2017
    I might be in the minority, but I found the long-winded conversations and palace intrigue to be my favorite parts of Dune. Herbert knew how to write an interesting conversation between characters, for sure.
     
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  2. LostOnHoth

    LostOnHoth Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2000
    Ghost you can see the problem right? You are raising complaints about a book you haven't actually read. So I could respond to the issues you raise above but what's the point? We can't have a meaningful dialogue because you are raising issues that others have raised based upon their reading of the book so you might not even agree with the issues you are arguing if you actually read the books yourself.
     
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  3. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    Oh I agree. One of my favorite moments in the whole series is Paul and Stilgar discussing the women's short sleeved dresses.
     
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  4. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2000
    WHAT
    Are people bashing Foundation in here?
    Okay you DESERVE Trump, he's just your level
     
  5. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 13, 2003
    I'm not mimicking another's opinion. I came up with mine independently.

    I'm not trying to win an argument.

    I asked people what makes them think it's the sci-fi version of LOTR.

    And so many are like: "how do you ask that, how do you ask us why we think this is great, don't criticize it without reading it yourself."

    This is what I posted:

    You're missing out on the science fiction equivalent of Lord of the Rings then.
    Is it really?

    I hear that about the original Dune series (and sometimes the Foundation series)... but when I look up summaries and reviews of them, it just seems rather bleh and cold and needlessly convoluted and not a realistic depiction of the future. I gave the Dune movie a chance once, many years ago, and I just had the same feeling. It just didn't "connect." Maybe they are the best of sci-fi... but that doesn't make them on par with Lord of the Rings.

    and elaborated

    I attempted, just could never get through the first chapter. And I'm not talking about only reading a few paragraphs. I've read multiple resources, guides, research papers, etc. on it just so I could be familiar with it since I couldn't get through the books.

    Though to be fair, I always had trouble actually reading Lord of the Rings too, but loved the Silmarillion and the Hobbit, and just their world and the intuitive sense it makes in its verisimilitude.

    Dune just seems rather dry, not sure if its complications actually enrich it. And the basic premise of everything depending on spice and all spice only coming from Arrakis is a little farfetched for such a futuristic society, as do their social institutions like the Bene Gesserit, and the ban on advanced machines actually holding. The most interesting part to me is of Leto II sacrificing himself, in several ways, to become the God-Emperor and lead to the Great Scattering, though the execution itself seems off.


    I don't see why trying to provoke a discussion on what makes it great is so bad.

    Thank you for explaining your thoughts.

    (this is all I'm trying to do, people)
     
  6. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 19, 2000
    Stop talking, go read Foundation. Don't stop until after book 2.
     
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  7. Healer_Leona

    Healer_Leona Squirrel Rangler of Fun & Games star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2000
    I had actually saw Lynch's Dune before reading the book/s and it's still my favorite of the movies because I adore the cast.

    To really do even just the first book justice, someone needs to make a miniseries.
     
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  8. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 13, 2003
    I think there was a miniseries in the early 2000s on the SciFi channel, but I don't remember too much of it besides the costumes (to differentiate it in my mind from the movie).
     
  9. V-2

    V-2 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2012
    Some (if not all) of the Foundation audiobooks (and IIRC a radio dramatisation or two) are available on yt. I think I've read all of them, maybe I'm missing one or two of the later ones. High class pulp scifi, great bedtime reading (or listening).
     
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  10. LostOnHoth

    LostOnHoth Chosen One star 5

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    Feb 15, 2000
    Ghost I'm not suggesting you are mimicking anything, I'm saying you have come up with your own opinion in respect of someone's else's synopsis, analysis or assessment. I just gave a one paragraph synopsis of the basic premise of Dune in a previous post but until you read the book how do you know whether you agree that my synopsis captures the premise or not? Somebody who has read the book might say that I missed the point entirely. Two people can read a book and take away completely different things. If you have only read essays etc then you have formed a view on somebody else's analysis. If you read it, you might have a completely different take.
     
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  11. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 13, 2003
    And like I said, I'm planning on reading it sometime. Though I've seen the movie (and I just DVRed it yesterday after this discussion), I've read basically the entire Dune universe Wikipedia (dune.wikia.com), took a class on science fiction and fantasy where it came up, have read up on it, I have the book in the house so I've looked through it, etc. Definitely enough to have an idea about it.

    But the whole point is I'm asking people who think it's the best Sci-Fi series: why? This is what people are misunderstanding.
     
  12. Snax Rebo

    Snax Rebo Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 1, 2017
    If you're gonna go through all that effort and basically spoil the plot for yourself, then why not just sit down and read it?
     
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  13. V-2

    V-2 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 10, 2012
    It's the best dystopian space opera by a country parsec. It's definitely in the top two of best space operas. It would probably make my top ten or twenty best scifi series, if I were the sort of person to make lists. ;)

    Really, it depends on what you want from your scifi... It's not hard SF and it's not Flash Gordon/Dan Dare either... It's kind of like a space Gormenghast, but interesting, and good. Or a space I, Claudius but with more drugs.
     
  14. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 13, 2003
    The movie because my cousin first showed me, the show because that's when I watched SciFi channel. The class because I wanted to take that class. The wiki articles and papers because I wanted to learn more about Dune because it's come up so much, I already knew enough about it because I find a lot of it intriguing, but the writing too dry or maybe the books too long that I just couldn't do the first book the last time I tried years ago.
     
  15. V-2

    V-2 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 10, 2012
    Maybe skip to God Emperor if you're already familiar with the basic story up to Children.
     
  16. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 19, 2015
    I'm looking forward to a big state of the art blowout production that dwarfs the Lynch effort. Just please no shoestring second string production outfit like the one that got hold of Ender's Game
     
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  17. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 13, 2003
    God Emperor is actually the one I read the most about, because of it's interesting ideas, how Leto II has basically sacrificed himself in so many ways to enable the Great Scattering. From what I can tell (yes I know I haven't actually read it) but I feel the execution of the story in that book could be done differently, but the ideas behind that book are some of the most interesting in the whole series.

    The story after he dies tends to lose my interest, with Honored Matres and infinite Duncan gholas.

    I'm also not a big fan of dystopian stories in general. There's something to be learned but I don't enjoy reading them. (Though stories between the extremes of hard-sci-fi and Flash Gordon style adventures are what I tend to be drawn to.)
     
  18. TheAvengerButton

    TheAvengerButton Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2011
    I know that everyone is talking about Herbert's ideas and the philosophy (at some point), but even on a superficial level the plotting of the first book is fantastic.

    Watching Duke Leto attempt to outsmart his enemies in the first part of the book is riveting. He is an extremely likeable character, and he instantly draws you into rooting for him and his family.

    The great thing about Dune Messiah also comes from watching the plots and counterplots of Paul and the conspirators who are trying to control (or kill) him.

    Sent from SQUADALAH
     
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  19. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

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    May 4, 2003
    I actually don't think I'd call Foundation dystopian. It is a series of novels about societal collapse and regeneration, true. But that no more makes it "dystopian" than a historical novel which happens to be set in the late Roman/early Medieval period. The focus of the story is not on oppressive government or the hardship of living nor is he really trying to make any points about the human spirit or condition. Rather, his focus is more on other areas that aren't really addressed by or through dystopian literature at all.
     
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  20. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 6

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    Apr 25, 2004
    Out of curiosity, what are the more prominent works of hard sci-fi?
     
  21. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 19, 2015
    Anything by Verne, Heinlein, Niven/Pournelle. I'd include Stephenson, though Snowcrash has that mystical neurolinguistics element. Asimov.
     
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  22. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 19, 2000
    My favorites: Rendezvous with Rama, House Of Suns, Ringworld and Protector, Cities In Flight, and Space by Stephen Baxter.

    Edit: Ken, zingggg
     
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  23. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 19, 2015
    Obviously The Martian is a modern classic. As hard sci fi as it gets
     
  24. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

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    May 4, 2003
    Asimov, Niven and Heinlein aren't particularly hard sci-fi writers. Truth be told, while that deferment of the genre is respected, it's literally never been a source of particularly notable works.
     
  25. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 19, 2015
    Niven veered in and out and through hard fantasy along the way. Hard fantasy isn't a thing.