MS Update The slightly-late MSU/ATB for May 20, 2009

I don't think Juli is being deliberatly obtuse at all. On the contrary, she - along with a few others - is one of the most level-headed posters in this discussion by seeing the situation for what it actually is.

The infamous "comms brigade" cry out for consistency and modding withing the rules etc. And that is exactly what is happening here. There have been bannings, and some troublemakers have had more than one ban. Leave them to dig their own graves. If they overstep the mark, it's dealt with. I have no doubt that shortly the bans will grow until they won't be back for a long time. That's a course of action the MS frequently takes. We/They stay true to the tried and tested ban-doubling system. And for persistent troublemakers it doesn't take long.

 

I'd like to point out that I generally don't come in here raising hell at the first sign of the mods bending policy or taking the initiative. Actually, I don't much like having a go at the actions of the MS - I'm pretty sure that's a matter of record.

 

Being honest, this sounds perfectly acceptable and appropriate to me. I still see the line of acceptability slightly differently to some users and apparently some of the current mods, however if the line was clearly drawn then we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place.

I do trust the MS to remove the obvious nutjobs and idiots, I would just prefer a little more, rather than a less moderation at times.

 

I find it hard to believe lines weren't being crossed far earlier than it appears MS action began to kick in. Finally, hhe problem with letting them dig their own graves is that for a period the forum gets caught in the mud-slinging - but that's straying into modding theory rather than practice.

 

And therein lies the nub (not sure what that means, but I've heard it somewhere)

Some users want more moderation, others want less. And frankly it's impossible to have a "rule" for every single eventuality. This is why we have an MS. We can't have a line clearly drawn as every single situation is different. Yes there are some clear cut violations that get dealt with without incident. But the way this is being treated is completely in line with established protocol. We all know that JCC is a hub for pushing boundaries. It doesn't happen all the time by any means, but it happens. A-B has been mentioned in this thread and elsewhere recently, and there's a good example of pushing boundaries as we all well know.

But in these cases the course of action is, as I said before, to watch carefully and get them when they inevitably cross that line. It's happened already in the current situation, and will continue to happen.

 

I'm pretty sure it's a sexual innuendo, so please demote and ban yourself. There are still things in there which are clear-cut (if you ask me), but we're all going to see the situation slightly differently. As everton suggests it almost took a bit of comms whining to get things moving, so if anything everton speaking out in here served its purpose.

 

It's actually "there's the rub", and it's Shakespeare. Specifically from Hamlet, Act III Scene 1. "To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub/For in that sleep of death what dreams may come".

 

Not really. Everything I've said about how the situtation has been handled has been true from the start. Nothing has actually changed, except possibly the userbase being made more aware of the fact that the issue is and always has been dealt with.


And thanks for the info. Of course the word is "rub".

 

it's definitely "rub," with an "R"

 

You moderate too much and you get called for being too overbearing. You moderate too little and you get called for not being around. Point being, there will always be something that offends someone and something that someone doesn't agree with. I can't change that but I can say that we honestly do try our best in every situation we're presented with, even if it might be disagreed upon.

 

I agree with halibut, and juli, and malkie and everton and that 506 guy, and SLG.


But the main problem is that it IS the JCC. We have rules that are in effect for a lot of the boards that don't seem to apply to the JCC. And the rules we have, have been relaxed significantly in the last few years. It can be difficult sometimes sorting those things out.
Lots of things would be edited and/or bannable on other JC boards.

And as was mentioned, we had a hat invasion of our regular users during this week too.

We have been much more relaxed with things like parody invasions, until they seem to get out of hand, and spam has never been quantifiable in the JCC.

We aren't supposed to be modding intent, only the rules, and that's what we did in this case.
We locked threads over the 3 a day rule.
We banned users for harassment.
We edited posts that went over the line, or used words that aren't allowed.
Redirected threads to other threads already open.

Everything else is a pretty gray line that we've allowed our regular posters to get away with, so telling us that we shouldn't let the SKers get away with them, tells me that we're wanting a double standard enforced here.

 

I'm going to go off topic here, but since I haven't seen it mentioned in an update or JCC mods come out and make an announcement or change the forum rules, I guess it could be on topic.

Bitch and whore - allowed or not allowed?

The words used to be in the Allowed list with the caveat that you couldn't call a user either one (duh). But unless it was a flame of a registered user, it was okay. I recall us going around and around about this in Comms, so ppl in the JCC had gotten used to using it. Also, attention whore was deemed okay. Now, I see it's been moved to Unallowed, with the same wording that's in Allowed, which makes it a bit confusing, and I see people getting edited for it, that had no idea we couldn't say it anymore. Perhaps some clarification on this could mentioned in future update?

 

And so, this means that if you put sufficent effort into it, and are careful to remain exactly within the rules, and you persist, and the are enough of you, you can do a lot of damage and avoid any mod action against you for quite a while. Meanwhile the forum suffers. I thought that the poor posting thing was supposed to cover this sort of thing - aapplied to those who consistently fool around with the rule book, but never get to third base.

I can appreciate not modding for intent in a one-off situations, but when you're dealing with a co-ordinated effort that lasts for days, and clealry annoys a large number of regular users, surely there's scope for a different execution?

 

Maybe there should be, yes.

 

I see it clearly annoying a small number of users. I see a small number of users defending how the mods have handled it and liking the increase in activity. I see a large number of users who haven't posted either way, but aren't leaving and are posting in the new threads.

 

Next update, Lisa will be covering Heavy and Light with special guest star ELMO!

 

Everton, I still don't see how it's an issue as long as users are posting within the rules.

If people want to leave, because they think others that are creating these threads are threatening to leave, then that's their choice.

The only issue I agree with, in this argument, is lack of mod coverage when there are 5 people in the header and only 2 or 3 of of them are consistent.

 

I've found the best solution for those of us who are complaining about the threads they are making, and over taking the good threads. That maybe it's time we put up or shut up and attempt to make better threads ourselves. Because they are only running a muck with these threads because we are letting them.

Last time I checked there were far more JCCer then any offshoot combined....


Just a thought

~PK~

 

i like dudeski. i wish he would hang around.

 

Welcome to comms, enjoy your stay.

I don't mean that in a sarcastic way, just that you only ever get a handful of users who'll be bothered enough to come and post in comms. However that doesn't automatically mean they represent the minority.

There's been some pretty poor handling of situations in comms, and some truely terrible attitudes displayed from the mods when people come to comms with issues, so I'd argue that potentially deters users from coming to this forum.

 

wow 10 pages, i win

 

You get seven minutes in heaven with Malkie, do whatever you will with him.

Malkie, close your eyes and it will be over soon.

 

7 minutes with malkie???? i was promised 7 virgins! wth


oh well i'll make the most of it

malkie, go get the haggis

 

Is this some sort of apology?