ST The ST: What Would You Change/Revise?

Fair enough. I totally get why people are disappointed that Luke hasn't (yet) been shown to pass on much of what he learnt. I'm still hoping we'll see his failed attempt in some type of TV show or something.

 

An easier answer for me would be what would'nt I change, because that would be the one scene of Rey riding her bike in TFAm, because that gave me the right ANH feel. I don't like anything else.

But here is a couple of crucial stuff I would change about the ST that would make it imidiately better:

* Remove Finn, Admiral Hux, Kylo Ren, Poe, Rose and Holdo. IMO, the worst character's in SW ever. (And this dosn't mean I like the other characters; the only one I like is Rey, who is tolerable - Mary Sue or not).

* Give us an older and actually cool villain. Someone we would fear in real life. Yes, I am talking about the 29 year old Kylo Ren. Worst villain in a movie ever? Yes.

* Make the New Order seem like they are somewat intelligent and in control. They come across as cartoonish mentally insane buffoons.

* Stop with the bad humor

* Maybe not crucial, but I would very much prefer the lightsabers and stormtroopers to be as in the old Movies. I don't like the look of them. The stormtrooopers looks goofy. Most of the ST looks, feels and are goofy.

* Make the ST less goofy.

 

There’s still hope for this in Episode IX — but seeing Han Luke and Leia in a scene together.

 

I barely know where to begin because I would change so much.

- Remove Luke, Han, and Leia.

- Remove Finn.

- Make Darth Plagueis the big bad.

- Focus a ton on politics, the state of the galaxy, and scale. Not just a bunch of action scenes strung together.

- Make Rey the primary tie-in to the previous films. Make her someones daughter, or be conceived by the force, or be Luke's protegee or something, I dunno. But Daisey is such a good and likeable actress and she can carry the films.

- Have the Jedi Order be rebuilt into something that learned from the previous films and that now aren't so strict.

Thats all I got for now.

 

The biggest and most important change though:

Give Lucas control of all 3 films

 

I bet we would get midichlorians being infected with minichlorians who can influence the force.

 

**** it, why not. At least it would be original and from the dude with the passion ane vision to do things his own way instead of playing it safe for the audience.

Midichlorians are a cool concept anyway. Give me dat lore

 

Let him write the scripts and use them, erase the fart jokes and bad humor, let someone else rewrite the dialogues and don't let George direct the character scenes.

 

@boonjj some connection between genetics and the Force was implied in the OT, especially in this line: "The Emperor knew as I did that if Anakin were ever to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him."

we can argue whether the Midis were well explained and presented in the PT, but the genetic linkage has been there all along, and had to be addressed somehow in the PT

 

The Jedi didn't marry and have children so their best and brightest didn't pass their Midis along over the millennia. They would have to rely on others for that rare gene and hope they passed it down. To me that seems limiting. It's possible that the Emperor was peering into the future with that revelation. I'd imagine midis could found in anyone, passing a high level could happen, but not guaranteed. It's just in the case of Anakin, Leia, and Luke, it fit the story.

 

Does anyone else think Disney have rushed through the sequel trilogy for money and short term gain.

The originals were announced in 1972 (11 yrs) and weren't completed until 1983.
The prequels also in 1992, competed in 2005 (13 yrs)
Disney announced the sequel trilogy in 2012 and it will be complete next year (2019) (7 yrs)!

 

A few thoughts;

A thing I would change about Luke and Snoke.

Snoke was the original darksider from before the Jedi order was formed.
Back then there was no Jedi or Sith, just Force users that had learned some about the Force and they worked in Master/Pupil pairs or small groups.
But Snoke arises and he wasn't called that back then, he didn't even have a name, he was just "The Dark Lord."
And him and his forces was threatening the whole galaxy. The various Force users tried to fight him one or two at the time but got destroyed.
So around 100 Force users band together and pool their knowledge of the Force, train and work together.
And this group, along the forces if what would become the Republic, fight back and Snoke is defeated. His forces are destroyed or scattered.
He is believed to have been killed after a big fight with several Jedi but his body was not found.
The people that survived this war founded the Jedi Order and the fledgling republic offered them the position of Guardians of Peace and Justice.

So they served the republic but for a time there was a worry that the darkness would be back so they kept records back in the first temple. That was the place where the Jedi was first formed.
But over centuries and millennia the knowledge was lost and forgotten.

So now that Darkness has come again, and calling himself Snoke. Luke does not know what to do.
He asked Obi-Wan's ghost but he has no idea either. Even Yoda knows nothing.
So he goes to the temple to find out more and what he could do.

I also would put more time between TFA and TLJ and have the situation be that the FO, while weakened, is attacking to gain the advantage before the republic gets it's forces together.
Leia is doing just that, taking on the mantle of leader again.
Finn is mostly restored and is fully with the resistance and is using his knowledge of FO tactics to help the Republic.
He is a bit bothered by having to kill people he do know and he has ideas to maybe get more FO soldiers to break their conditioning and stop serving the FO and that could he his goal for the next two films.

Rey and Luke does pose a problem given how TFA ended.
But we see her training with Luke and some flashbacks to how they first talked, he asking "This is my lightsabre, how did you get it and WHO are you?"
We hear through dialogue that Luke does not know who she is and he has tried to peak into her mind to get answers but it is blocked somehow.

Kylo? Well the idea that he thought that his killing of his father would make him stop doubting himself and prove himself to Snoke did anything but.
Snoke chews him out as useless and weak. Kylo does turn against Snoke, he does not become good again but he and the Knights of Ren break with Snoke and the FO and strike out on their own.
You could even have Kylo kill Snoke, or what they think is Snoke. But his victory is short-lived and a mocking laughter is heard "Fool, did you think I could be killed this easily?"
So now Kylo is on the outs with the FO.
But say he does ask Rey to join him but she says no and he lets her go and takes some FO people with him.
Hux is still with Snoke though.

Bye for now.
The Guarding Dark

 

Instead of passing down Anakin's saber, which doesn't really belong in the story anymore, they should have passed down Luke's green one. When he went into exile, he could have stored it in R2 for safe keeping, which then ended up in the hands of Leia. This is the saber that he used as a Jedi, the one he defiantly threw down in front of the Emperor, the one that he almost killed his nephew with and the one that he left when he went into exile. This is the one that would have the most meaning to him and to Kylo, when Rey fights him with it. Instead of having a convoluted story where Maz randomly has Anakin's old one for some reason, you could just have it with Leia all along. She could have given it to Rey in a great scene, told her to find her brother and give him this saber, and that he's he only hope now'.

They didn't need a map to Luke in TFA. Since Han already knows that 'his closest friends think he went to the first Jedi temple', we don't actually need a map the location. That bit of information is something that only a few people would know about, his closest friends, maybe even something that Snoke and Kylo wouldn't. So you could have had Leia simply trying to give Luke his saber back as a way of calling him back into duty. Maybe SLT tells Poe the approximate location like "it's in the unknown regions"...or something. Instead of piecing together a map, Rey simply traces Luke's old steps. The end of the movie could have shown a simple montage of Rey going to a series of wrong temples. During this montage, she (and us) could have learned more about the ancient Jedi, maybe see some engravings, old torn up statues, hints of old battles, etc, all done just visually. This could have been a quick lesson for her about who the Jedi were. This is her first step to pulling back the curtain. Finally she lands on Ahch-to. She tells Chewie that she's never going to find him. Then climbs the steps and finally sees Luke standing at the edge. Rey has now in a sense, made the same journey Luke once made, so it proves she's worthy of the torch being passed to her.

Maz should have been Ahsoka. She could have been this old wise sage, an ex Jedi, a retired warrior, who's helping the Resistance. (Still mocap, still played by the same actress) She could have been used to connect the three trilogies and could have given Rey some unique lessons on what the Jedi were from her own POV. And even with another force user helping the Resistance, Leia still needs her brother, which would have made Luke even more important to the story. Hell, maybe Luke sought out Ahsoka and she helped him understand the PT era, and helped him build the academy. Or told Rey, who reminds her of herself when she was young, to go find Luke for answers.

 

WOW all three of those ideas are great. Especially the green lightsaber. I like the Ashoka idea too. Why not put her in there. Who care if the majority of the audience wouldn't know who she is...does anyone know Maz or Snoke?

 

The First Order vs. the Resistance overarching framework entirely gone. I truly can't believe that's what they came up with.

I wish they would have gone with an extragalactic invasion plotline along the lines of the NJO. It sounds trite, but there were actually some really cool dynamics there. The Vong not being Force sensitive, severely hampering the Jedi, the New Republic/Imperial Remnant teaming up against a common enemy, the Vong ultimately being ruled by a lone Force-sensitive member of their species, the Vong's biological weaponry etc. There are a lot of possibilities there.

It's incredibly sad to reflect back on that mixture of shock and excitement I felt on that morning they announced the ST. I never would have believed in a million years then that just two films into it, the ST would already be dead to me.

 

I would’ve disliked the Vong more than the First Order, I’m afraid.

I’m personally wedded to my pet idea of a Mandalorian Union swooping in to fill the power gap in large chunks of the galaxy post-ROTJ in an analog to the Soviet Union’s sweep into Central and Eastern Europe, and then having a Cold War-style conflict between the Mandalorian Union and the New Republic and a Military Alliance of Democratic Systems (MADS). Could’ve set up lots of super-interesting espionage type stories that would have made it very distinct from the OT, while still being aesthetically a child of it.

Ah well.

 

First of all, I would have hired @DarkGingerJedi for the development of the entire ST, and would have given him carte blanche to work with Dave Filoni and come up with the complete story for all 3 movies, BEFORE even casting for the first movie begins.

Otherwise:

• Luke, Leia and Han would be prominent characters in the first film. We were told that the first film would kind of serve as a way to pass the torch to the new generation of heroes, but what we got instead was only 1/3 of that. Han Solo was pretty much as advertised, but Luke was just nowhere to be seen, and Leia could have been a wax statue instead, and it would have been almost the same
  
  
• No depression for any of the characters. Estranged Han and Leia, depressed and cowardly Luke, zero kids for Luke, one kid turned schizophrenic dictator for Han and Leia, all of those would have gone down the drain.
  
  
• Definitely a New Jedi Order. Re-imagined, redefined and reestablished by Luke Skywalker, along with help from other Force sensitives scattered across the Galaxy, perhaps with a couple of Order 66 survivors, like Ahsoka Tano and Ezra Bridger for example.
  
  
• A Skywalker lineage. Between 1-3 kids for each of the twins, to play their part in the new films. They wouldn't have to be the main focus necessarily, but they should play a pivotal role. And Mara Jade for Luke. If you have no problem with turning Jacen Solo into Ben Solo, ripping of the Starkiller base from the EU, and introducing a new Emperor (Snoke), then at least keeping Mara Jade should really not be an issue at all. Especially since EU fans love her almost unanimously, and non-EU fans didn't know her, so wouldn't care one way or the other.
  
  
• Introduce a new threat to the galaxy. In the prequels, the pieces of the puzzle that turned the tide were the Separatists, the complacement of a long lasting state of peace and the Jedi, the long lost and hidden Sith, and the genius masterplan of the future Emperor, who used the clone army to his advantage. In the original trilogy, it was the Empire and Darth Vader. Bring something new and exciting in the ST. Heck, even keep the name First Order, but don't make it Empire 2.0. Use completely new aesthetics for the uniforms of the soldiers, make them all have a Supreme Commander who is a dark side user, but give this person a background. Don't kill him and make him look like a fool, just for the ***** and giggles that you will have with the reaction of the audience.
  
  
• Have at least one of the Skywalker kids flirt with the dark side. They don't have to be the new threat, but character development should show that the Skywalkers are not perfect. Make them stay to the light and join the "good guys". Keep Rey as she was in TFA. Maybe she can be completely random and very powerful with The Force, but develop her character.
  
  
• Give a satisfying ending to all the OT3. If you signed up all the actors for the roles, then give them a good story. Not have one of them with zero development for 30 years, only to be killed by his son, one of them depressed and a failure, only to appear as if 30 years later he is still an immature scared boy (while giving him what I consider a very cheap and aggravating death), and one of them participating very little in the first two movies, with a dead end for her character for the third movie. I seriously cannot imagine how anyone else in charge of the ST, would have done worse with Luke, Leia and Han.
  
  
• Keep Finn and give him a better story arc in the second movie.

This is what I can think of for now.

 

1. Not killed off Luke. I'm fine with his arc but Hammill was excellent in TLJ and it was an unnecessary waste to kill him off. There was a fair bit you could do with him in Episode 9 without turning him into a Yoda clone and it would maybe give a chance for him to be a bit chirpier and maybe quieten the army of middle aged men complaining their child hood was ruined because a (sort of) kids film didn't go the way they wanted.

2. Tweaked the Rey character. Fine with her being a no-one but they really didn't need to go about it so much. I guess TFA fed TLJ a hospital ball by making it an issue that didn't really have an easy out (being a Skywalker would be parodying Star Wars). She needed to be down-powered a fair bit - she obviously should have lost to Kylo Ren and probably needed to be a bit more likeable.

3. Get rid of some of the silly things. The map to Luke was a bad idea, Leia flying is something that in hindsight I'm sure RJ would have put in the re-cycle bin, the Maz Kanata scene in TLJ was just nonsense.

4. There needed to be better story-telling somewhere explaining the First Order and Resistance. If people don't understand then you've not done it right. No references to the rebels either - if they are the resistance call them that.

5. With hindsight, given the fairly gloomy few years Han, Leia and Luke had, maybe Lando should have been in from the start in a very minor role where he had done pretty well for himself. Might sort of add a bit more happy to the happy:sad balance without changing the overall picture.

They are the main things off my head. I enjoyed the films so not going to re-write the film structure - they are what they are.

 

Haha, where is this army of middle aged men complaining about that? Or is this how you call people that disagree with you about Luke's arc in TLJ?

The moment that the creators of a movie start planning how they will make it, around what the fans will say, whether they will subvert explanations, how they will impress the audience, how they will make the most revenue, and how they will use marketing to try to convince everyone that their movie is great, the movie already falls a few levels in my eyes. But that's where we are now. Instead of focusing on GOOD storytelling, it seems Disney might indeed be focused on all of the above a lot more than they should.

 

First of all, it's not solely middle aged men and secondly, yeah, why not give Luke a better end, and Han and Leia one too? What the hell did it cost ANYONE to do that? If they had treated the characters decently, maybe they wouldn't have a good chunk of fans angry and complaining on social media, and probably not indoctrinating their kids into the new Star Wars. What a fantastic plan as Disney is trying to broaden the appeal and bring a new generation of fans into Star Wars. Hack off the old fans, what an excellent idea.

It just does not make any sense to me at all, from a story telling perspective and certainly from the perspective of taking the existing audience Star Wars had and broadening it.

 

My problem with having any dark side users leading the antagonists in episode VII is that it undermines the end of ROTJ, Luke’s mission to save his father, and Anakin finding the courage to end the Sith once and for all.

I would be fine with new characters being tempted by the dark side in the ST, but I would want to see that on screen.

 

I guess the one big question they were faced with was, ‘It’s 30 years after Jedi. Do Luke, Han and Leia have to be central to the narrative? Or, can we take this in a completely new direction while at the same time making sure the legacy of those characters is utilised and not forgotten. Luke especially.

 

I would’ve given Luke and Chewie another scene together, something along the lines of Luke talking to R2 on board the Falcon.

 

I think the OT characters are the most fully realized in the ST, actually. They’ve gotten the best material, and feel the most human. It’s the new ST characters that have been underserved, IMO. Coming across more as ciphers than characters.

 

I agree on the ST characters but I’m sorry, I cannot agree with the argument that the OT characters are somehow more realized or human in the ST. To make them human, they have to have their lives destroyed? How is Leia more realized when she barely reacts to Luke and Han’s deaths in a matter of days? She also does less than she’s ever done. I don’t buy she gives a damn about anyone, let alone Darth Emo but that’s better? Luke has not one moment in TLJ that’s within striking distance of the moment in Empire when he asks “will they die” let alone ROTJ. Han is basically even more of a joke than his worst moments in ROTJ and I bought not one moment of that scene with Kylo, no matter how hard Ford tried. I just do not see it at all.