ST The ST: What Would You Change/Revise?

You’ve misread my post. I said the OT characters in the ST are more fully realized than their youthful counterparts in the ST. Not more than their characters in the OT.

 

Okay...I can go with that, to a degree anyway, but I think it's more what they bring with them than any writing on the part of the ST. Certainly in Leia's case.

 

Well, given all the ridiculously petulant, rabid hate filled crap aimed at RJ for TLJ?
Perhaps it would’ve been best that LFL disregarded the post ROTJ angle completely,
and gone for something entirely new lol

 

but the one, single open plot thread from ROTJ was directly tasked to Luke: "pass on what you have learned"

how do you go from that to Luke barely appearing in episode VII?

 

Well, I’m sure a clever team of writers could’ve come up with something engaging involving ONLY Luke and a new generation. I think the decision taken to have them all involved in the narrative pretty much limited where the story could go.

 

I don’t think Yoda’s dying instruction to Luke would only narrowly implicate his fate and his students. It was clearly important for the galaxy at large including all the OT characters and any new heroes in the ST.

 

Pro Edit: Removed the opening bait from the post

The Last Jedi

In the first act I would have had them on the run with First Order Dreadnoughts bombing D'Qar. But instead of having Poe go up against one with that silly, out of place, comic relief, we would have the First Order remain a threat instead of turning them into a joke.

After the First Order destroys a few transports the Resistance go into hyperspace, but instead of having the First Order have nonsensical hyperspace tracking, the Resistance goes to Chandrila where they try to pick up the remaining pieces of the Republic. This not only provides us with beautiful core-world scenery, it gives us more LORE and gives a purpose for the Resistance, story wise. It provides good filler for Act 1 bleeding into Act 2 and negates the boring space chase. You still have Rey training with Luke on Ach-to.

After the Resistance try to gather remaining allies and gunships, the First Order gets alerted to their presence on Chandrila and we have a beautiful battle take place where we find the Resistance and remaining allies fleeing for their lives. Kylo Ren lands and we see him hunt down his mother Leia to where she escapes.

They eventually find the planet Crait and hide out in the abandoned Rebel Base. Instead of Rose and Finn going off to Canto Bight, Rose is actually a First Order Operative, and alerts the First Order to their presence, to where she gets shot and dies. They have the same cool battle, Luke does the same Force projection on Kylo but with a GREEN lightsaber, and the remaining Resistance gets away with Rey and Chewie on the Falcon.

Luke doesn't die.

 

CHANDRILA

 

I enjoyed quite a lot of TFA and TLJ. The biggest thing I would change is the ship chase scenario in TLJ and Holdo's final hyperspace jump. To me the chase just seemed really poorly thought out. Maybe the whole thing is better explained in the book but, watching the film, it didn't seem to hold water in terms of the in-universe physics. (I'm not saying that it needed to be like a hard sci-fi story as SW has never been that kind of tale. I just wanted it to make basic sense.) I liked that there was a chase scene - it added to the feeling that time was running out for the resistance. I also very much enjoyed Haldo's heroics at the end - I loved how my thoughts about her and her tactics changed based on what she did. But again, if she used hyperspace as a weapon and hyperspace has been around for centuries then why haven't we seen it before and why aren't there defenses against it?

Anyway, this is what I would have changed. I loved the story aspects of both the chase and the jump but I don't think either of them were well enough explained in terms of the SW universe. Just my thoughts.

 

Thinking of ways to improve TFA while keeping it largely the same...
Remove SKB and the destruction of the Republic. Big one. Keep the focus of the story about finding Luke, not destroying DS3. Make Jakku and Takodana look more interesting, more like the concept art. Have the final act be set on the same snowy forest planet, except it's the planet where Luke is. Instead of Rey besting Kylo in the interrogation I'd have him successfully take the map from her head and set course for Luke's planet.

Have Han, Finn and the Resista.. er, Republic come there as well, with a standard battle against the FO rather than destroying a superweapon. The Rey Rescue mission can take place on a grounded Star Destroyer, where Han meets Kylo and is killed. Then they blow that up and run off into the forest, face off with Kylo etc... Though I'd have Finn lose an arm in the battle (because robot arms are cool) and Luke show up to fight Kylo after Rey is also disarmed, probably end it with slicing Kylo's saber in half and him
running away like a coward.

And just for funsies they all return to Coruscant at the end.

So, um, more focused story and more room to grow for Rey.

 

-The atrocious worldbuilding-The ST does a terrible job of explaining how the FO is this overwhelmingly powerful and the Resistance and New Republic are this pathetically weak, especially given what happened in the OT/PT.
-It feels like a lazy rehash of the OT conflict.
-They cannot even keep it consistent in-between TFA and TLJ, despite those films taking place almost immediately together.

It would have been more interesting imo if the FO was a smaller organization that couldn't take on the NR directly. But they got around this by making sure that their soldiers were well-trained, well-armed, well-equipped, etc (which would also contrast nicely with the Empire's use of legions of disposable cannon fodder). And they actually managed to start conquering Star Systems using this, and younger officers with imaginative and clever tactics to get around the numbers disadvantage. Then the NR and the heroes have to resort to more desperate measures to avoid the FO becoming as powerful as the Empire was. And it sets up a climactic Clone Wars/PT-scale final battle (perhaps on the NR capital planet, or another really important world) in Episode IX where the fate of the Galaxy would be truly decided.

That'd have been so much more interesting that what we've gotten so far imo.

 

Based on what they actually wanted to have happen one of the least worst courses would have been to say that while after ROTJ the Republic came back it wasn't at the strength of the previous version. Many of the former Separatist systems that tried to leave previously did so.

The breakdown is Republic (largest group), "Seps" (second), non-aligned (everyone else) and the Imperial remnants (a relatively small group with old equipment and kept in check) basically along the lines of the Centauri in Babylon 5. The new power is the First Order who emerged out of virtually nowhere (unknown regions) with incredible power, ships, personnel etc who are lead by Snoke.

The basic galactic level story is that old Sidious had spent decades building this safety plan if he ever got usurped. After he was killed Snoke (who is an unknown actor) took control of that and waited decades working his own version of Sidious' plans. Undermining the Republic, cutting deals with other groups (no one really knowing their full power).

This way the Republic don't look like totally useless and idiotic morons because the First Order is mostly hidden and don't seem that imposing a threat and not one that can't be handled. No Resistance nonsense. Simply the Republic.

Luke has a fledgling Jedi Order of several dozens of Jedi and students including Ben Solo.

The first act of "TFA" has all these elements with the trio together and things going relatively well )or so it seems). Act two is the "Death Star" reveal, the Republic gets destroyed (but not the entire fleet) and subsequent attack on the Death Star.

Mixed into this is are altered versions of the Finn and Rey characters who are more soldier and scavenger at their core as opposed to that just being a descriptive line for plot purposes, Ben Solo (who is already doubling as Kylo Ren) and the other elements they wanted.

By the end of the movie they could have still have what they wanted ( a reboot) but one that would make far more sense:

The First Order, Snoke and Ben Solo as Kylo Ren.

Luke's Jedi Order beaten and scattered (with who you want to come back later on).

By movie's end Luke takes on training Rey. Han is killed. Leia leading what's left of the Republic fleet (with plenty of allies to organize).

Basically do a smarter and more credible version of the situation they have in TFA by movie's end which allows for sequels and Jedi with actual training.

 

1. I would have turned Rey into Starkiller and Juno's daughter.
2.I would have brought Sam Witwer in it.(To play the father role for Rey)

and other stuff which I'm not going to think about it now.

 

Overall, I don't mind the new direction. But, like so many have said, but the time TLJ comes around, I would have given Snoke and the Knights of Ren at least some exposition. I wouldn't have even minded Snoke's unexpected and early demise had we know something about his origins, who trained him, and where he was during the events of the OT and PT. I like the idea of him existing way out in the uncharted regions, already strong in the Force and extremely wealthy, which would help to explain the First Order's massive financing for Starkiller Base and the massive fleet ships.

And, of course, we should have been told something about the Knights of Ren. How and why they formed, what happened to them, and if they were in league with Snoke, or just Ben's private army?

 

If I were to change anything, I would've made a clear establishment that the First Order was taking over the galaxy by showing another battle or if that shifts focus away too much from the narrative, make clear mentions over the course of the two films there are clear idealistic divisions in the galaxy on what regime might be best, and that the slight balance of power is the determining factor for what the galaxy would prefer.

As far as the movies tell me, nobody likes the FO, yet somehow this small force that longs for the days of the old Empire are somehow bringing a galaxy that hates them and their ideals to their knees. Its not like all the senior officers loyal to the Republic died on Hosnian Prime and are in this one Resistance fleet, and if I was to buy that then that's hard for me to believe.

 

That’s what happens when you treat a carefully-constructed world as mere window dressing.

 

I would have made a clear cut opening showing how the NR is this utopia and wonderful place(maybe Chandrila?) but there are rumors and ominous signs of a growing threat somewhere in the unknown regions. One sign is word gets back to the Senate that Lor San Takka's hideout has been sacked by a group of militants led by a dark warrior. That way, we feel that the end of ROTJ earned and meant something: it led to peace for a generation and the imperial era is over. Also, have the Empire still around but very small and with a symbolic emperor. They sued for peace and demilitarized so the NR did much the same. The NR only has a small defense force in the outer rim to counter pirates and smugglers.

Cover the ground Claudia Gray did in Bloodline with the Centrist and Populist factions in the NR. Talk about relevance! Don't have to have endless scenes. Maybe one scene showing Leia as a populist and the centrists debating her about what to do about the rumors of a fanatical militant group in the unknown regions. This would be the FO but no one knows what the name is.

 

The First Order should have been the underdogs.

There should have been a 3rd party involved. A group that was separate from The First Order and allied with them to challenge the powerful New Republic.

Starkiller base should not have been a thing.

The New Republic should not have demilitarized.

There should have been more Force users other than Kylo Ren.

If Ben Solo has to be a villain, then at least have there be more young Skywalkers so that their legacy isn't so tragic. This isn't Shakespeare.

Opening of TLJ: Rey tries to hand Luke his lightsaber...he replies: "You've earned it. How many times do I have to tell you?" -and then we learn that this isn't her first time on Arch-To. There was a time jump. THAT would have subverted my expecteations.

Opening of TLJ: Rey tries to hand Luke a lightsaber...he takes it and ignites it.....tests it and says: "Well done. It needs some adjustments but you've constructed one faster than any of my other students" - time jump confirmed - big subversion.

I'll add more later. Out of time.

 

Ep 7: Gulp! We realise the Empire isn't dead - it's very much alive and living out in the Unknown Regions. Ben falls to the dark side and slaughters Luke's students. We learn who Snoke is.

Ep8 TFA

Ep9 TLJ

EPs 10, 11, 12 Trilogy 4

 

I’m glad the Populist vs. Centralist thing wasn’t in the films. Populists (as defined in our world, not in the GFFA) aren’t good guys these days, IMO, and I don’t want to see them reinforced in Star Wars.

 

Populists have always been gray problematic figures in society. That's what would have made them perfect for the ST.

Yes, I agree with those who wanted more politics in the ST. It's definitely a huge hole in the story and one of the reasons we're missing that allegorical flavor SW usually has.

The debates could have just been done in a more lively way than they were in the PT; they could have been done with dramatic action.

 

Change or revise?
Nothing.

That doesn't mean I think everything is perfect. I'd just rather enjoy everything the way it is, beautiful flaws and all, than to tinker and risk ruining the charm. I'm more focused on enjoying the hype leading up to Episode IX than wishing anything we already have was different.

 

Tinkering around on a message board is pretty safe.

 

For changes

TFA
- Han and Leia are experiencing stress from losing their son, however, they aren't separated. Han has been Leia's advance recon scout for the FO for years, running information back and forth and generally keeping to the fringes, in part because he feels guilty for not being able to be the father Ben needed, because of his lack of Force Sensitivity, but he won't admit it and so Leia feels like he's closing her out.

-I actually quite enjoy the first act, so for the most part, it remains un-altered. Rather, instead of opening right on Jakku, we open on Han's transport ship with our flash back as above, but then he's alerted to the FO presence nearing Jakku. As we cut away from Han, we fade into the First Order mobilizing over Jakku and then to the village with Lor San and Poe

- Finn and Rey both exhibit signs of Force sensitivity. For Rey, it shows itself in exceptional reflexes and resistance to mental domination. For Finn, he has enhanced reflexes and a higher than normal level of stamina/combat endurance.

-Scene with the Kanja Klub, Balla Tieg and the Raktars plays out

-During the first meeting with Han, we get a detailed flashback of better times. Luke, Leia and Han working together with Chewie and Lando, trying to rebuild. We see Luke exploring the remains of the Coruscant Temple, Leia and Han rebuilding the Senate and managing the defense forces with Ackbar and Chewie and even a shot of Lando running a legit podracing enterprise on Tattooine, having converted Jabba's palace into a 5 star casino/resort.

- Maz's Castle.

-The destruction of the Hosnian System is averted by Luke, but not entirely. During the firing sequence, we cut to the mysterious planet he's hiding on. He's sitting alone by a fire, cloaked and hooded, so at first we don't recognize him. He sees the beams arc out and can feel the fear pulsating from the system. He reaches out with his normal hand and the beams begin to warp and spasm off target. One arcs into the other, but the third beam finds its target. Hosnian Prime and the Senate are spared, the other world is severely damaged, but the remainder can be evacuated, but the third planet is totaled. Luke puts his hand down and we see the prosthetic and realize who just saved the day! This segment leads into Snoke berating Kylo for not getting the map when he could and gives a tantalizing look at why they're so terrified of Luke. His power has grown to the point where even their super weapon means nothing as long as he's around to interfere and worse, their actions have finally drawn his attention onto them directly.

- The Hosnian survivors are able to give us a further State of the Galaxy, explaining the disarmament that kept the army from dealing with the FO directly, how the navy has been effectively halved, but that emergency protocols are in effect and the remainders are mobilizing. Leia wants to wait for Luke to try and recover Ben, but Han decides that he's waited long enough. He tells Leia he's going to be the father he didn't have the courage to be when they were younger and admits that in spite of everything, he's never regretted a minute of his life with Leia, only that they lost so much time.

- Han still meets his end, the final battle at the end plays out differently though. Finn and Rey have to fight Kylo in tandem, as even with his wounds, he's still better trained than the 2 of them put together. They have to alternate between passing off the lightsaber while the other provides cover fire to keep Kylo distracted. The end result is still the same, but Kylo's experience is factored in and he's definitely shown to be a top tier threat that required numbers, plus a big handicap to stop.

-Rey's arrival at Ach To is met with not just Luke, but 2 surviving alien students. The Last Jedi is now a plural context.

More ideas for TLJ tomorrow.