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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST The ST: What Would You Change/Revise?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by EzraSnoke, Dec 27, 2017.

  1. Count Zero

    Count Zero Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2014
    The fact that Snoke basically appears out of nowhere.
     
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  2. jaqen

    jaqen Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2004
    My only regret with the sequel trilogy was the same regret that Carrie Fisher voiced:

    That it wasn't done earlier.

    We could've gotten either a ST, or they could've broken the mold with the trilogy format all together, if there was say 15-20 years between ROTJ and VIII vs 32. I really think this would've afforded more time with Luke, Leia and Han, and still fully allowed the baton to be passed on to a new generation.

    As it stands, as much as I love the ST as is, we're now left with dead Han, dead Luke and dead Carrie Fisher.

    If the characters came back in their late 30s/40s I don't think there would've existed the need to move them on so quickly.

    This is a view I've held since I was a teenager back in the 90s, BTW. I felt like Lucas should've greenlit the ST. There was no real urgency for the PT to be done. And I suspect that Lucas' ST, starring Carrie Fisher, Harrison Ford and Mark Hamill would've been better received than his PT, even with his known pitfalls. The Big 3 already had that legendary chemistry, all were stronger actors 15 or so years later, and all had the history, and skill, to translate Lucas' shortcomings as a writer to the screen and make it work.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
  3. JDN21

    JDN21 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2004
    It's evident that the sequel trilogy was unnecessary. The ST is just rehashing the OT and therefore belittling the achievements of Luke and the Rebels.

    In hindsight, the Disney Star Wars would've perhaps been better advised to avoid the trilogy framework and just made the anthology style movies.
     
  4. Jozgar

    Jozgar Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    • Explain the politics of the First Order, New Republic, and Resistance better in TFA. When even some fans thought it was too vague, you need a better explanation.
    • Make the war more even- it's a little annoying how the Resistance is apparently a handful of ships at all times.
    • Call the Resistance something else so people understand that they're not just another rebellion.
    • The New Republic shouldn't have been wiped out in TFA. Some of their forces should have survived, regrouped with the Resistance, and the main conflict should have been a diminished New Republic vs. the First Order.
     
  5. Bob Effette

    Bob Effette Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    The Force Awakens was okay, but I would have changed up The Last Jedi a bit.

    Luke’s first scenes with Rey, he would have scanned the sky with his binoculars asking her whether she had been followed, and then he would have asked urgently whether she had brought R2 with her. There would have been some scenes referencing Han and his death, but the thrust of the Ach To segment would have been Luke needing the full map from R2 to get to the first Jedi temple, somewhere on Ach To.

    Luke knew that he had to start from the Jedi settlement on the island, but he didn’t know where on the mainland the temple was. He had been on the island trying to piece together the clues. The map and compass together would show the way from their origin. Luke explains that they need to walk, in order for the compass to work. En route Luke begins to explain the ways of the Force to Rey, and why he can’t let Kylo Ren find the temple, which is what Kylo is desperately looking for.

    Luke tells Rey that ancient Jedi would build temples wherever they came across a vergence in the Force. Naturally occurring ‘nodes’ in the fabric of the Force where the concentration was immense. The most powerful of all these places was where the first Jedi temple was built. Luke tells Rey that he encountered one such place on Dagobah during his instruction with Yoda. He believes that the Jedi discovered that in this temple, one could not only see other places, the future, the past etc, but they could actually be other places, everywhere and anywhere. They became luminous beings, actual Force Ghosts whilst alive that could interact with anyone and anywhere across the Galaxy. The ultimate power of the Force.

    They find the temple and it is much like Luke believed, but Kylo Ren tracks them down and shows up with the Knights of Ren. There is a battle and Luke destroys the Jedi Temple, but not before Kylo learns how to use its power. Rey goes after Kylo when he flees Ach To, believing Luke to be dead under the rubble. There is a scene with Luke raising the X Wing from the water and he shows up at the end. Kylo is now in command of some pretty awesome Force powers, but the end scene would have been a rag tag group of resistance fighters all looking to Luke Skywalker, the last Jedi, to lead them...

    That’s how it would have gone down for me, for better or worse.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
  6. King Prana

    King Prana Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 19, 2017
    My idea for episode 8 would have been a really simple story showing Rey being trained under Luke and Kylo being trained under Snoke.

    How fascinating would it have been to see the training of both the light and the Dark side? We've never really seen the latter. Imagine Snoke telling Kylo about the origins of the Sith and expanding on Darth Plaugeis. The audience would have been gripped.

    As the film goes on, strain develops in both relationships leading to Rey clashing with Luke and Kylo clashing with Snoke.

    The outcome of this conflict is that Rey is seduced by Snoke and goes under his wing.

    Kylo confronts Luke but his pull to the light is so strong that he starts to reconcile the relationship for the sake of his mother.

    Could you imagine Episode 8 ending with Rey under the stewardship of Snoke and Kylo back with Luke? A complete 180 from the start of the film. Imagine the possibilities and discussions we could have heading towards Episode 9.

    The bonus of such a simple story is that it would have allowed for deep exposition such as:
    - why weren't the Rebellion able to quash the Empire following the fall of Vader/Emperor
    - what happened in the years after ROTJ?
    - How did Snoke rise to power? How did Hux rise to power?
    - Delve deeper into the mythos and more nods to Anakin and the old Jedi ways
    etc.
     
  7. Ray Donahue

    Ray Donahue Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 2, 2017
    Honestly, I'd completely remake it as there was no need for sequels that took place after Return of the Jedi at all.

    I'd personally would have loved a trilogy based on the Knights of the Old Republic era or a trilogy that takes place shortly before The Phantom Menace.
     
  8. Aetius888

    Aetius888 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005
    Kylo would not have killed Han. I think the fan reaction has gotten in the way of dark romantic adventure that they want to tell. RJ told Vanity Fair that he was planning on writing a central romance but he decided the characters were not in the right place. Which is basically saying, we had to change up what we were doing because it didn't go according to plan.
    Rey wouldn't be such a Mary Sue.
    The Force would still be a skill to master rather than a wand to wave.
    Fewer action figures ..... I mean characters.
    Fewer plot points and at times slower pace. Spend more time developing a shorter list of plot points.
    Fewer characters.
    Fewer characters.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  9. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    The only meaningful change I can think of is to have them stick to GL's story and follow his advice.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  10. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Mine would be mainly tweaks to what's there.

    1) I'd tone down some of the humour in a couple of places just to keep the tension high. I like it all, but sometimes I don't want to laugh.
    2) Similarly, I'd take out Rey's fun "I like this!" during the gunning sequence on the Falcon.
    3) I'd cut back to her taking out a few more TIEs in a very hairy situation (if it could work, hard to know if they didn't already try this in the edit but shelved it).
    4) I'd definitely show her straining to lift those rocks.
    5) I'd possibly try and give Snoke a line or two about his overall agenda if possible - though maybe this could be explored a little as Kylo takes it over in 9.
    6) I'd trim or revise the approx three clunky lines about Kylo Ren being strong with the dark side so the Jedi need to come back.
    7) I'd maaaaybe give a line to Luke that clarifies why he felt he couldn't stop Ben after his fall.
    8) In TFA - I'd revise the SKB somehow and change the nature of the X-wing attack on it.
    9) I'd maybe separate out the planet designs in TFA to be less things we've seen before. I like them but I think you'd reduce the rehash criticisms with that change and the SKB change. I love Jakku and the snow forest, but both R1 and TLJ fare way better on the locations front.
    10) final TLJ one - I'd have Luke shove the saber back at Rey on his way past, or stage it like the saber toss in Jedi. I like the irreverence of the saber toss, but I think quite a few of those that don't like the film never recovered from it, and I'm not convinced the irreverence is worth it. You can keep the exact same character motivation and plot point, but a slight change in tone there could have made a big difference.

    That's it. All nitpicks. Apart from the SKB. That would be the biggest change.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  11. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    World building is my only biggie (aside from SKB, in which I agree with Satipo)

    The funny thing about the world building is that people say “we shouldn’t have to read books to know what’s going on”, and they’re right, but also, the “road to TFA/TLJ” books have, on the whole, been just as vague as the flims so far about actual context for this trilogy, like there’s been strict instructions to not develop that area, and it’s that more than anything that made me think there would be much more about Snoke and the first order in this one
     
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  12. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 3, 2016
    The reason I'm so hard on Lucasfilm for this is due to them claiming that they'd have a substantive replacement in the form of a more film-focused continuity and while it has been film-focused, the scope of their films is small to a fault, to the point where I think they're just hype-mongering rather than expanding the universe. Even during the prequel trilogy's release schedule, you had really well-made secondary material that expanded on large parts of the mythos whereas the sequel trilogy's is comparatively inferior in that regard.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
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  13. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Yes, in fact, if you took these novels;

    Darth Maul; Shadow Hunter
    Cloak of Deception
    The Phantom Menace
    The Approaching Storm
    Attack of the Clones
    Labyrinth of Evil
    Revenge of the Sith
    Dark Lord

    (All of which were the equivalent of the “road to..” books and current novelisations)

    if you took these novels and judged them honestly on their own merits as an 8 part mythology, without any baggage of being tie-ins or novelisations, they’d be regarded as excellent fantasy
     
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  14. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 3, 2016
    The novelizations, in particular, even managed to take the surrounding material and flesh out the films rather well. I remain legitimately impressed with the novelizations ever since I read them a little more than a decade ago.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
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  15. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

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    Mar 29, 2014
    I do agree that the other material could have been fleshing out the world building a little more strongly. But they do seem to be playing a very long game and I can see that once the films are out, certain stories will be nailed down more strongly. I can understand why they don't want to step on the toes of the film makers.
     
  16. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    If they don't want to step on toes, they should have taken the initiative and just started with The Force Awakens because the literary material is ultimately lacking. Include elements of Bloodline to flesh out Ben, Luke and Leia. Give the audience a reason to care about the New Republic. Make the Knights of Ren a more relevant faction. Quit the empty meta narratives and already dated humor that undercut the gravitas of the story. Maybe flesh out your antagonists somewhat considerably so that the audience can actually see that they're more than the Empire 2.0.

    If even the novels are going to take this piecemeal approach when it comes to giving away story elements, then just include the important parts that would make the films interesting because they were certainly lacking that.
     
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  17. Ren Kylo

    Ren Kylo Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    wall of text! some ideas that definitely need fleshing out, tweaks, etc. but here goes:
    • regarding the setup of the political conflict, i really like the idea of the first order as a fringe group hellbent on undermining the new republic that other posters have brought up. this way we get to see a totally new phase in the gffa as there is no rehash of the empire vs rebellion dynamic. allow for a few scenes explaining the political setup and climate set on hosnian prime so that we can get some world building in. perhaps the new republic favors targeting of innocent family members of first order militants which leia objects to, explaining that that would be giving into fear. then bring in the whole idea of her being the daughter of vader making folks wary of her. the shadow of vader on the galaxy continues.
    • the first order's backstory would be clearly explained. where they came from, where they get their resources from, etc.
    • snoke is not the supreme leader. just the shady sith-like fella the first order picks up in the unknown regions.
    • no starkiller base.
    • rey-kylo fight is a draw.
    • the map to luke still features.
    • as for the jedi order, i would keep the idea that it had been attacked but rather than having half the students die while half run off with kylo, i'd have a few of the light siders survive. i would keep the idea of luke going to find the first jedi temple. while he does this the remaining jedi stick together to counter the knights of ren. both the kor and the remaining jedi are mentioned in 7, but feature in 8 and 9.
    • finn would be force sensitive. i wouldn't relegate him to role of comic relief. as for his background, i love the idea of a defecting stormtrooper. so despite being a fringe group, the first order utilizes empire imagery in the form of stormtrooper suits in order to add a psychological dimension to the conflict. in that vein i would keep the idea that they have been abducting children and brainwashing them. finn can lead a stormtrooper rebellion in episode 9 like many have suggested.
    • i would have rey, finn, and poe interact often. poe can be poe solo.
    • we still have rey random, and it is 100% clear that she is absolutely not related to anyone we know. rey would have some prior experience with the force. maybe while on jakku she has experiences she can't explain that later turn out to be the force. i'm not sure that i would make her some sort of force prodigy/chosen one type character. i like the idea of a grey jedi that many posters have mentioned on here, so with luke's guidance that's what she becomes instead of her being the light created by the force in order to counter kylo's darkness.
    • i find it very depressing if ben is han and leia's child, so i'd make him someone random, and perhaps rey's brother. in that case, i would make it so that ben and rey have been abandoned at a young age by their parents. luke finds them and brings them to his temple and senses their force abilities, however this is something that i'd work with so as to not make it seem as though luke only cares about them for their powers. the two deal with being abandoned far differently, ben in particular giving into the darkness under the influence of snoke while rey does struggle but is just a bit more aligned with the light. **** goes down at the temple, ben/kylo spares his sister, drops her on jakku, mind wipes her, and splits.
    • kylo would be closer to the jedi killer concept from the art of tfa. i do love the idea that he would use imagery of darth vader to haunt luke, which i think is also from the book. i think with this we can still play around with the idea of anakin skywalker's legacy, and it would be interesting to see it come from some random person.
    • a year later in episode 8 we find out that while on ach-to luke has been researching ancient force lore and has found some new understanding of the force to bring to the fight against kylo and the knights of ren. perhaps something about grey jedis, which he uses to guide rey as she finds her place in the force.
    • meanwhile finn and poe infiltrate the first order in order to stop some plot against the new republic. finn sows the seeds of rebellion which will happen in episode 9.
    • luke and rey form a powerful father-daughter bond during her training. we see her struggle quite a bit.
    • at some point rey figures out kylo is her brother. it would be more of a casual reveal, not an earth shattering twist.
    • luke doesn't die until 9.
    • rey meets with her brother in order to redeem him, maybe she joins him but that could undermine her bond with luke. so idk. maybe ben manipulates her with a "revelation" that causes her to turn.
    • lead into episode 9 with that.
    quite a few things i've mentioned come from old speculation about rey and what went down at the temple. i loved the ideas i read here back when i was a lurker.
    like others i would work on the world building. in the tfa art book there are some beautiful planets that i think should've been in the films, so i'd pick from those. i'd change up ach-to as well.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  18. Darth Imbecillis

    Darth Imbecillis Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2016
    I don't really have any proper story ideas for the ST... I think I'd rather keep my best ideas for my own projects where they will actually be used, heh.

    But there were a couple of things I always hoped would figure into the story somehow, and the last phase of marketing before TLJ made me think they would (but ultimately didn't):

    - "Raw power". I thought the awakening itself would be something new and special, some special destiny with a special purpose that (a) wouldn't invalidate anything that has come before in the saga, but bring something new to the table, and (b) would be something that Rey would have to struggle with. The way the trailer was framed made me excited that she'd have to come to terms with having something potentially monstrous and dangerous (perhaps coming with a dark prophecy attached that could go either way) inside her that sets her apart and makes her feel alone. The idea of Force powers as something "freakish" would have had many interesting possibilities.

    "Raw power", had they actually gone into it, would have explained Rey's untrained abilities. Sharing this strange power with Kylo and struggling with it as he once did (and maybe still does) would also have been a pretty natural way to make her understand Kylo better, and a good explanation as to why Luke was supposedly spooked out by them both.

    Instead it turned out that she's basically just really powerful and... good. Oh, okay.

    - Ancient history. This was something that intrigued me since we found out that Luke had gone to the first Jedi temple, and I'll admit this is where most of my unfulfilled "headcanons" lay. Everything from Kylo's lightsabre being of ancient design to the Ahch-To tree, the books, the marketing copy that mentioned "ancient secrets" all stoked these expectations... I really allowed myself to think ancient history would play some kind of a role in this - perhaps with ancient evil, ancient prophecies, ancient answers to ancient mysteries, who knows - and give us some Tolkienesque depth and scope and epic scale.

    "Raw power" and "ancient secrets" could have made a really fascinating combination, and to this day I'm puzzled why they were mentioned at all. But, it is what it is.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
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  19. Blame_It_On_Lucas

    Blame_It_On_Lucas Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2004
    I wouldn't have killed Ackbar off.
     
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  20. Strongbow

    Strongbow Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2014
    Hmmm I really love the ST, but nothing is perfect, so here goes:

    1) Pick a different threat than SKB. It was the only call-back I thought was a bit too on-the-nose.
    2) I would have added variety to the FO TIEs. I love the classic look, but show us something a little different.
    3) Leia hugs Chewie on D'Qar.
    4) Some hints we'll see more than one Jedi (still pulling for Jedi Finn).
    5) Show why Phasma is scary. She needs to be more of a legit threat.
    6) Decompress the time line. So far, the ST has happened over what.... 2 weeks tops. Let it breath, guys.
    7) A bit more in-cockpit pilot banter in TLJ. I loved what we got, but it missed the "Battle of Britain" kind of feel JJ gave us in TFA.
     
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  21. Darth Imbecillis

    Darth Imbecillis Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 20, 2016
    Isn't it more like less than a week?

    But yeah, I would definitely change that.
     
  22. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 4, 2016
    Not hire JJ Abrams but instead someone with real ambition and get them to come up with a basic arc for the whole trilogy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  23. Strongbow

    Strongbow Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 6, 2014
    I think it depends on how you interpret the cuts. The time spent in hyperspace is always a bit ambiguous in Star Wars.
     
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  24. Dukeleto69

    Dukeleto69 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    This is an interesting perspective. I too thought there was something more to (and perhaps there is) the phrase "The Force Awakens". We have Rey Random being a Mary Sue, err sorry...VERY STRONG Force Sensitive. We also have that kid at the end of TLJ. In TFA Snoke says something about feeling it and the light and dark etc. I think they are building to a sudden explosion of people across the galaxy with Force powers. Not Jedi or Sith but able to use the Force. This expansion gives Disney and Lucasfilm scope to tell loads of stories that ALL potentially feel like Star Wars.

    Personally I wish they were braver and realised that Rogue One showed non Force related stories can work really well too! Certainly have a mix and don't have light Sabres and Force powers in every film or TV episode!
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  25. Roosterq

    Roosterq Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 6, 2017
    I don't have a solid direction that would be different from what has come out, but I would have appreciated for what came before not to have been treated with such disdain. Han was shown to be a failure at being true to his family, and they killed him off. Luke was a loser, a coward, and was willing to turn his back on everyone because of a single failure and they killed him off. Leia is obviously going to be killed off, but They have already shown she didn't do what her OT character would have done to continue to be the fighting force she started out to be in the OT, and just sit back playing the weaker woman roll, and let brother carry the load of the fight. I'm fine with moving on and expanding the SW universe, but not at the expense of what has existed for the last 40 years.