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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST The ST: What Would You Change/Revise?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by EzraSnoke, Dec 27, 2017.

  1. Avnar

    Avnar Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2007
    About 95% of it...
     
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  2. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    I would've given it back to Rian Johnson. TROS was much too safe.
     
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  3. Twain

    Twain Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2014
  4. Swashbucklingjedi

    Swashbucklingjedi Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2010
    I would've revised episode 9 almost completely and possibly some parts of episode 8.

    I would have used Palpatine in the last episode as some sort of sith ghost rather than living being, tied to ”horcrux” kind of back-up plan, sith artifact on hidden world of Exogol, and not being the one behind the First Order but looking for a way to gain it's control and way to return beyond death by possession, but that would require a specific ritual (kinda like in the actual film, but host would have to invite Sidious’ spirit in their body and require them to sacrifice themselves. (but in sith tongue or something, so they could be tricked to say the words and accept possession)

    Rey would have fallen to the dark side in episode 8 or in the very beginning of 9 during an opening battle on Ajan Kloss in which Leia dies.

    Rey would be Palpatine's granddaughter and in love with Kylo Ren and tied by destiny to him (dyad). Kylo would reveal all this to her and offer his hand. I would have had slightly different backstory for her parents though, she could’ve actually killed them herself by accident (like she ”killed” Chewie in the actual film) and memory being too painful she would’ve locked it out of her mind. Her powers would have been too much for a child to control. Kylo would say they are similar, him being responsible for Han’s death and now Leia’s.

    Hux would've been more serious character and he would have started a civil war within the First Order allying himself and some troops loyal to him with the Resistance, lead by Poe (after Leia being killed by the First Order desperate Poe would agree to ally with Hux seeing that as the best option to win Kylo). Chewie, Rose, R2, 3PO, BB8 and Finn would then abandon Poe (Rose would practically kidnap Finn who doesn’t want to leave Poe he is in love with- yeah I would’ve made them gay) using Millennium Falcon and go to look for Lando Calrissian instead, hoping he could gather forces, who would be found on Pasaana like in the film with festival and all but looking for his lost children(as planned). 'Evil Rey' would go after them with knights of Ren to kill them.

    Finn would set things right by turning Rey back to the light by showing her Leia’s last message (with R2) to her. Leia asks Rey to search for where her heart truly lies, tell that she actually knows her full backstory, but believes that it’s never too late for anyone to be redeemed and she would also beg her to redeem Kylo as well. Rey would then defeat knights of Ren with Finn and join back to the heroes. Luke’s and Anakin’s ghosts would appear to Rey and tell her what she has to do.

    Secret fleet of planet destroyers would've been smaller than in the actual film (being capable of destroying planet together) and hidden by the Emperor in the Unknown Regions (Exogol)years ago and Hux with Poe and Kylo would both want them to turn the tide of their civil war.

    Location would be surprisingly found inside 3PO:s mind, placed there by Anakin/Darth Vader on Bespin. (he would’ve known about Emperor’s secret backup plan and he would’ve cunningly hidden data of Exogol in 3PO:s head, remember he wanted Chewie with him when he altered the deal, and it is his droid originally anyway.) Anakin’s ghost would tell this to Rey. They would take 3PO to Babu Frik which would be Lando’s acquaintance instead. Heroes would now learn about Exogol and Lando would leave (with his new ship) and start gathering supporters for an expedition to reach the fleet before Hux or Kylo.

    Hux and Poe with their allied forces would be engaging forces of Kylo Ren (lead by Gen. Pryde) near the ruins of Death Star 2 on Endor (instead of Kef Bir). Kylo finds the Emperor’s holocron there and learns about Exogol, and then starts crushing Hux and Poe's allied forces and overpowering them. Rey, Finn and the crew would arrive to save Poe, but Hux would be killed off by Kylo.

    Kylo suddenly retreats trying to reach the fleet before heroes, especially Rey whom he calls traitor and weak disappointment. Kylo would go to Exogol first and find the fleet(without crew) and the location of the Emperor's spirit bound in the sith artifact on Exogol (no sith army there, ”sith troopers” would be just some Kylo’s special forces). Emperor would trick Kylo, possess his body and take control of his forces now sending message of revenge all around the galaxy.

    Force dyad between Rey and Kylo would still exist, Emperor planning to possess them both becoming invincible and immortal force user. Resistance would arrive to battle Emperor’s and Kylo’s fleet with supporters from all around the galaxy (like in the actual film) Rey would fly Resistance X-wing with R2 and Poe with BB-8, Lando would take Falcon with Chewie and give his another ship to Finn (who turns out to be one of his lost children) and Rose.

    Rey would land to face Kylo Ren possessed by the Emperor. Emperor would seduce her to darkness, but she would refuse angering him. She would be overpowered with Emperor having power of all sith through Exogol artifact/ dark side nexus etc., but then ancient jedi including Anakin would join Rey (kinda like in the movie) and give her power to destroy the artifact. Emperor would cease to be, but Kylo would also die as the result. With his last power he would apologize Rey and tell she was the stronger all along by doing the right choice and then he would kiss her. Emperor’s fleet would then be destroyed by Resistance and it’s allies.

    Then ending celebrations and some ghost appearances by Ben, Leia and Luke.

    That's sort of outline of how I would've treated TROS even if TLJ would've been mainly similar, but name would be something else, The Destiny of the Force/ The Legacy of the Force/Jedi/Sith or something final and decisive, but still vague. I dunno would it really have been better, but I would have liked it this way better. It was okay film, but the way Emperor returned with ready massive fleet and army bugs me the most in TROS. It makes entire First Order seem weird unneeded sidestep from his original plan of revenge. Snoke could've still been Emperor's creation and agent in this version, he would actually lack the army and supporters having just mind and the empty fleet. There are another plot holes in my version though like what causes Rey to change sides, but with right amount of emotion and good dialogue it would've made sense I believe.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
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  5. Darth Geezy

    Darth Geezy Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2016
    I really love this Starkiller base concept.
     
  6. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    I would depict Kylo Ren faking his redemption in TROS. He would fight with Rey against Palpatine. But after she slew him, he would try to drain what was left of her life energy instead of giving his to her. Then Finn would kill him by surprise to save Rey. Something like that.
     
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  7. rocknroll41

    rocknroll41 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 28, 2013
    Having now seen all three films, then only thing I would change would be to swap out TLJ with one of the fan edits.
     
  8. obi-arin-kenobi

    obi-arin-kenobi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2005
    At the end, I would have George Lucas chillin on a lawn chair on tattooine. Maybe sipping out of a Jar Jar shaped cup and say "youssa miss me?"
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
  9. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

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    Nov 20, 2012
    And then he tells us to get up and leave because the movie is over.
     
  10. JeanNo

    JeanNo Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015
    TFA was a nice introduction to the characters and TLJ was / is a masterpiece IMO.
    So I would revise the whole third act TROS as it makes little to no sense at all.
    (No need to use Palpatine, no need to use Lando when Luke had done it all, no need of Reylo, no need of new characters, etc.)
     
  11. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    If TFA and TLJ are as is,

    RoS makes very little sense and the plot is massively contrived, more than any other SW film.
    It is enjoyable in a "turn your brain off" kind of way but it falls apart under even very little scrutiny.

    How it could be done?
    Kylo is the head of the FO but many there think he is too reckless and impulsive and some are still loyal to Snoke and don't like that Kylo killed him.
    So the FO splits apart, one faction lead by Hux and not as silly or played for laughs as in TLJ.
    The other is lead by Kylo.

    This division helps the resistance to get support from other worlds and build up their forces.

    Kylo wants more power as he has lost twice to Rey so he goes looking for ancient Sith lore and he finds some.
    Rey trains and also reads the Jedi books.
    She finds out about some ancient Sith world, thought long since dead but finds out that Kylo intends to go there.

    Finn comes across other FO troopers that have defected and he goes to some of the places where the FO brainwashes young people into becoming FO soldiers and manages to lead an uprising against the people in charge.
    And he gets many of them to join him.

    Leia and Lando go around to get more support, Leia to leaders of planets and Lando to more shady people, smugglers, criminals.

    The knights of Ren work for Kylo and they have some Force powers but not a lot. Some of them go after Rey, at Kylo's orders and he wants her dead.
    Some others go after Hux and the FO officers he has around him.
    And they do kill him, putting an end to his faction of the FO. But at considerable losses.

    The FO capital is attacked by the forces that Lando and Leia brought and also by Finn's uprising.

    Kylo and Rey to the dark planet and their conflict is resolved.
    I am unsure if redeeming Kylo is good or not. It is easier to do and be satisfying.
    But having him die un-redeemed, if done well, might be more interesting.

    So the FO is destroyed, Kylo dies, Rey comes back and starts a new group of Force users, not quite Jedi but something a bit different.
    Rey is not a Palpatine.

    Bye for now.
    Blackboard Monitor
     
  12. Darth Geezy

    Darth Geezy Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2016
    Star Killer Base should have just been handled much differently, in several ways.

    For instance, Star Killer Base's purpose should have actually been to be just that, a "Star Killer."

    What I mean by that is instead of the weapon draining the system's star in order to gain the power to blow everything up to eliminate planets, how about Star Killer base literally just drain the system's star to eliminate the planets by freezing everyone to death instantly, which is essentially what would happen if this was real life science?

    And instead of making it a round base like a Death Star, make it something different looking, like a massive ship or something with an odd shape like a diamond or a cube, or just something more sophisticated that a round object we have seen twice before already.

    If they had done these two things alone, the complaint of "oh this is just a third death star" would be significantly fewer.

    Lastly, as I alluded to in a previous post in this thread, instead of TFA being another rehash where the good guys destroy the giant planet killing weapon, how about making the good guys lose the first attempt to destroy it and have the weapon carry over to the next film for once? One of the problems this trilogy suffers from is that the good guys effectively win each episode. Sure, there are casualties, but the main battle is won by the same people each time....

    Have SKB survive the attack in Episode 7, then see the consequence of that loss in Episode 8 and have that consequence be meaningful by having it blow up planets that viewers are familiar with (perhaps the Tatooine System or the Courscant system).

    Maybe even have Rey get her butt absolutely kicked by an injured Kylo who is using one arm in the Episode 7 SKB lightsaber battle and she survives somehow to escape, maybe a reverse of the same scene. This would equate to a devastating total loss for the resistance as SKB survives, casualties for the resistance, and true adversity for the protagonist, who we can now see grow into a warrior instead of just being perfect at everything from the beginning.

    Finally, instead of it being done to a First Order fleet, have Holdo's maneuver done on SKB to end that plot thread at the end of Episode 8 (I actually think this should have been Leia's final act, due to her learning she only has a few days to live following her Mary Poppins space exposure early in Episode 8).

    Then Episode 9 would focus on only killing the main baddie, who I still feel should have been Snoke, revealed as Plagueis in Episode 7. You would perhaps have Rey/redeemed Ben kill Snoke in a rehash of the throne room scene, and then have Anakin deliver the death blow in a force ghost fight between the two of them for him to end the Sith once and for all, fulfilling the prophecy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
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  13. Darth Geezy

    Darth Geezy Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2016
    Sorry for the double-post. One more to add...

    They should have "played up" Kylo's redemption/struggle a bit more. Maybe have him seem a little shaken by the SKB attack on the system that was destroyed. Make it seem clear that Luke did indeed try to kill him in his sleep and maybe give Luke a better justification for it - like some sort of temporary Sith possession that took over him in that moment (maybe this is what the Sith eyes are we see in some of the Skywalkers at certain moments). This would make the audience more sympathetic to him turning, especially if we also got a glimpse into how Snoke was messing with his mind. A simple "Kylo, you already know I was wise enough to foresee Luke turning his saber on you long ago and that you needed to get out of there" line from Snoke accomplishes something like that.

    Maybe have us see Kylo still kill Han on the bridge as-is, but later, out of guilt, we see him resurrect Han using the death cheat referenced in Episode 3 that he will have learned from Snoke/Plagueis.

    At the same time though, to offset this, you show that Kylo is very thirsty for power and to control everything, just so that there is true conflict shown.

    With there already being a main protagonist in place with Rey, they could have really played up the drama of "Is Ben going to turn good or become the main villain" a lot more in all three films, and at the last minute where it looks like he's about to become the main villain, by luring Rey into a trap with him and Snoke in the throne room and hinting to the audience that he's about to kill her, he pulls the same light saber trick off with Snoke to kill him. He then explains to Rey that he had to pretend and convince even himself that he was going to kill her as an act, because Snoke/Plagueis is so powerful and can read his intentions so well.
     
  14. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016
    That's a lot less interesting when what we got, where there's irony in the sides they chose not fitting well with their family trees. (Besides, it's shown that their own natures impacted where they ended up; Kylo had the heroes bloodline, but his dark side tendencies were a factor in his going to the bad guys. Rey may have had one of the most evil men who ever lived as a grandfather and some degree of natural affinity for the dark side of the Force, but her spirit and heart placed her on the side of the angels.)

    That could've been an interesting story, but I don't know.

    No, I think seeing that the heroes didn't get everything right makes for a richer story. I also think showing that the legacy was more then just the bloodline made for a more meaningful transition. Rey didn't get to uphold the legacy just because she had the right parents, but because of her decisions.

    While I really question if redeeming Kylo at the end was the best call, I can't say I have any complaints with Rey's story in terms of progression and all that.
     
  15. dinnertime

    dinnertime Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 14, 2020
    In The Last Jedi, I would have changed the fight between Rey and Luke to be a fully fledged lightsaber battle. At that point he had already reconnected to the Force, so it's not too much of a stretch to think he would reconnect with other aspects of his Jedi-ness.

    In the actual scene, Luke uses some metal stick to easily fend off Rey's staff attacks until he disarmed her and she pulled the lightsaber on him. In this reimagining, that would not be an option. Luke would demonstrate his lightsaber mastery over her and she would yield. Her rage would be quelled by a reality check.

    Instead of telling the truth from a position of weakness, Luke would be the one towering over Rey revealing the truth to her on his own terms. It would rightfully portray Luke as the experienced Force user, and Rey as inexperienced and naive. It would further reinforce Luke being correct when he tells her "This is not going to go the way you think!"

    Luke has experienced a lot since ROTJ, and this would have been a great way to show more than just his sadness. The lightsabers would have looked pretty cool in that storm, and it would have been good opportunity to use Luke's green saber. Oh well.
     
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  16. Darth Geezy

    Darth Geezy Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2016
    Agreed....one of the things I was really looking forward to with this trilogy was to see Luke with enhanced lightsaber skills. The old movies back then didn't really do those fights any justice. It wasn't until the prequels that we really got to see what true Jedi in their prime look like when fighting. Flips, twirls (some admittedly unnecessary), back blocks, etc. I really wanted to see Luke be a total bad *** with a saber, but it never happened.
     
  17. cratylus

    cratylus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 9, 2001
    I agree that the "flipped" origins would make the sequwl trilogy less interesting.
     
  18. LedReader

    LedReader Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2019
    I appreciate the responses. Just to clarify I don’t have anything against Rey Palpatine + Ben Solo in theory, I was just curious if this way could satisfy some of the common criticisms of the ST (example all blood Skywalkers being dead) while hopefully not stepping too much on the toes of the people who like what we got, since that defeats the purpose. I knew some people would be turned off by the idea of playing it safer but I was interested to know if there was any merit to this idea I had. If someone who thought the ST was a 10 would only drop to a 9, that might be worth it to bump someone who is a 3 up to like a 7. But if you’re bumping a 1 to a 2 while dropping a 9 to a 7 then you’re really not helping. In any case I thought it would be an interesting hypothetical to discuss even if it was ultimately deemed a bad idea.
     
  19. Dark Ferus

    Dark Ferus Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2016
    Starting in VII:

    New Republic is in power, may face trouble during trilogy
    Focus is on Han and Leia's children (Jedi in training)
    Villain is a dark side user, but not a Skywalker or Solo
    Criminal underworld fights against the Republic backed by dark side villain
    Luke's Jedi Order is intact, the big three of the OT has screentime together.
    Anakin, Obi-Wan and Yoda appear regularly as ghosts
    Plagueis has a role


    Starting in TLJ without changing TFA:

    Luke intends to train Rey
    No Rose, DJ Holdo in the roles they were given
    Snoke survives until the next film
    Rey temporarily joins the dark side
    Finn's Force sensitivity is followed up on
    More time after TFA (months)
    Luke did not consider killing Kylo (backstory changed)

    Starting in TROS without changing TLJ or TFA:

    Palpatine put a false memory in Luke and Kylo's minds of the incident just before Kylo turned
    Jannah is Lando's long-lost daughter
    Palpatine is a ghost, needs Kylo and/or Rey to bring him back
    Rey is Luke's daughter
    Finn has begun to train under Rey
    More than a year after TLJ
    Anakin returns, helps defeat Palpatine
     
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  20. Lucillalin

    Lucillalin Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2016
    Cut that awful casino nonsense out of TLJ and put some exciting Knights of Ren subplot there instead. You can't mention something in the beginning, then drop it entirely and then randomly bring it up as important in the end
    Also, poor Hux! It hurts my writer's brain when handsomely paid professionals fail at character consistency. He shouldn't have been the spy in First Order and should have died differently. I'd have Kylo kill him off in the last film.
    Also write Finn's character better and make him more serious and traumatised. Drop Rose and Holdo. Give some interesting character traits to Rey (from the animated series you can get some hints how to do that)
    But in all honesty, I'll be happy with just cutting the casino bit and whatever those goat-horse-thingies were
     
  21. cratylus

    cratylus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 9, 2001
    I'm not sure of what all I would change in retrospect but I want to say first that I respect the efforts made in making these movies and I don't think everyone appreciates all the different pressures and challenges involved.

    My first thoughts out the gate are that I would make it fit together better in terms of the last episode's revelations. I'd dial down some of the new force power stuff, the lightspeed tricks, and the planet-killer elements. The fleet at the end would be a threat but not so ridiculously powerful. I'll add this too, that I would tone down all the force-usage, not just the new powers. I'd keep most of the outline, but potentially dial back the starkiller and the canto bight material, or actually maybe remove hyperspace tracking and have them find the heroes another way. And one more thing for sure--I would NOT let TLJ happen almost immediately after TFA. It would be somehow set up so there was a long interval, to preserve the epic feel of the saga.
     
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  22. cratylus

    cratylus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 9, 2001
    Holy cow that actually works! The new characters are more powerful because that cloud that limited the Jedi in AOTC has been lifted! This really helps. I appreciate your mentioning that one.

    EDIT: I also agree with your statement regarding Force Healing. I always assumed Ben Kenobi was doing that in this scene.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
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  23. fugacity

    fugacity Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2018
    Trevorrow script for 9. I hate to say it, and I never thought I'd be "that guy", but that script made it all work. It made it all feel much more planned and thought out.

    I said for a long time, "wait for the last chapter before you judge the trilogy." TROS made me regret that. The Trevorrow script would have made the sentiment pay off. 7 wasn't the problem, 8 wasn't the problem. Both had flaws, but it could have been made right with a good 9. The 9 we got was a safe bet that would rather just have a nonsensical adventure than actually do anything to make it all stand as a narrative
     
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  24. Lordban

    Lordban Isildur's Bane star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2000
    I would build a story team and have a direction for the trilogy. All three directors would have been part of that team and of the collective process defining the foundations of that story and how its world would have been built.
     
  25. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Expert At Modding Casual star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 20, 2012
    THREAD MERGE.