ST The ST: What Would You Change/Revise?

Ironically enough after Oscar got his wish and survived the film he has said in interviews that he wish he had died in TFA

 

Karma.

 

(1) A single, coherent overall story for the three movie arc, agreed to beforehand. Every detail specified? No. A clear, well thought-out story arc? Yes.
(2) IF OT characters are to be used, take care to treat them well. They don't have to be perfect, or infallible. But for goodness' sake, let's not bring them back as sad, old, embittered, pathetic failures. I'd sooner not see them than see that. And if they die, give them a great send off.
(3) Whatever you want to call the Holdo story elements, the Holdo-Po elements? None of that, please.
(4) Even if the threat is somehow Empire related, dont make it appear that the OT accomplished nothing. That SHOULDN'T be that hard - I can easily imagine Luke or Yoda rallying a troubled Rey with words to the effect that each generation must face challenges, this is her time, rise to it, etc. But don't make it look like the OT accomplished almost nothing.

 

I saw the interview months ago. Someone had posted the link and it was from the TROS press tour and he mentioned how if he had know what he was getting into he would have rather just died in TFA. I will try and find out it has been link here before that's where I saw it but I think it was before the new ST forums were created.

 

One of my favourite Ralph McQuarrie pieces of concept art for Star Wars is this one. I had always hoped to see a world maybe made up of vast grasslands or plains. The closest the Sequel Trilogy came was the shore of Kef Bir. I would have loved to see a location like this though. Maybe as Rey's homeworld instead of Jakku, or had The Last Jedi been a quest movie as I had also anticipated, used for that movie. It is just so evocative. I look at this and can imagine the three figures being Rey, Luke and Chewie finding the first Jedi Temple....<sigh>

 

I love concept art because it tends to be so out there. I also understand why most of it doesn't make it into movies - too out there. Big budget movies are made for average audience that most likely wants more average things so concept art that is closer to that often wins out.

Love that image above.

 

This is honestly the area where I feel this trilogy fails the hardest. The villains make no rational sense. The Empire is just back and seemingly just as strong as before for absolutely no reason.

Why not explain that the Imperial remnants (now called whatever, it doesn't matter) were pushed to the edge of the galaxy and now they too have to face a Rebellion within their borders. The Republic doesn't see this skirmish as anything they need to be concerned with, but Leia starts sending these Resistance fighters aid, unknown to the Republic. Now you've got a three-way conflict between Republic/Empire/Resistance with our old heroes and the new Jedi Order stuck in the middle. You still get your REBEL vs EMPIRE imagery from the OT...you can throw in Republic/Jedi imagery from the PT...AND do essentially whatever you want story-wise instead of destroying the New Republic, having no Jedi, and essentially shoving your franchise into a box.

 

And that's why (IMHO) most of them are not particularly good movies. A filmmaker/writer should never approach a story/film with the principle of 'let's make this as unchallenging as possible for the audience'. It doesn't make for great cinema... again, in my opinion.

 

true. Pirates of the Caribbean movies (Verbinski trilogy) were out there and they made a lot of money. Yet ttrend shifted to average thanks to superhero movies (exceptions such as GOTG aside).

 

I think one fundamental change I would have made is having Rey have her conflict be about belonging rather than her sudden shift to caring about lineage and legacy in TLJ which just gutted her character completely. I would have found her a lot more endearing if her story was actually about that.

 

I never took it that she cared. I took it that Rey saying "they were nobody" was almost breaking the fourth wall meant to clarify to the audience that she wasn't related to any known character. Since there was a considerable speculation that she was. I don't know why it was read as if she harbored a secret desire to be somebody via important lineage. Kylo telling her that she came from nothing was continuation of "she is not related to anyone you know, stop parentage wars".

 

I don't think that's strong writing.

 

AGREED! Rey's whole arc in TFA was that she stopped waiting for her parents to come back for her and instead went to find Luke. She grew up and decided to leave her home. And the idea that she comes from nowhere (the one idea from TLJ that I actually like) seemed to retread the arc she already had in TFA. By the end of TFA, Rey didn't care where she came from, yet because the audience cared, it seemed like Rian Johnson gave her the same arc again to make sure the audience got that Rey's lineage isn't important.

...and of course people complained about that so Rey got made to be Palpatine's granddaughter...

 

Rey didn't decide to leave her home, she was swept in events that took her away from home. She spent half of TFA going "I need to go back". She didn't go to Luke because she grew out of waiting for her parents but because she was helping the Resistance. TLJ picked up right where TFA left off. She didn't grow between those movies.

 

Why did she go to Luke, if that wasn't the narrative of the character, in TFA? Why did the movie have Maz structure her choices as, I think, "the belonging you seek is not behind you. It is ahead."?

 

So you are saying that TLJ didn't have to have any parentage reveal and Rey reaction to it cause Rey moved on from her parents? Hey, I'd love that but unfortunately parentage reveal was going to happen in TLJ because they didn't want to make it clear in TFA. And then they made another reveal in TROS.

 

TLJ didn't have to do that, if it didn't want to make Rey's parentage important. I think they could've done this in the beginning and dealt with her struggling with that and her abandonment issues and her anger, insecurities, self loathing nand inherent broken-ness she may feel, over the course of the movies, as well.

These thing aren't my preference.

 

I would have changed this.

 

You are skipping over her scene with Maz about going to Luke. Rey is freaked out by her force vision and runs off into the woods. (not sure where she planned on going) By the end of the movie she decides to go and get trained by Luke, therefore she is no longer worried about her parents who Maz even clarifies to the audience that Rey already assumes, "are never coming back."

Rey's arc in TFA is going from someone who just wants to return home, to someone who accepts the call to adventure. It's HERO'S JOURNEY 101.

 

The reason why there is disagreement over Rey's characterisation, is that the underlying narrative is so inconstant across the trilogy. Is Rey a loner or someone who longs to belong? She's both, as that's how the films portray her. It's an inconstancy that pretty much applies to every major character in the ST (certainly Finn and Luke too)... and of course is a result of Lucasfilm/Disney not having a clear direction about who these characters were and what the story actually was.

 

You mean you didn't like the subplot in which the formerly brainwashed child soldier has to learn about the horrors of child slavery by having to be shown Charles Dickens stable boys? Amazing.

 

Ah, this myth. I don't know what horrors. Finn was way more than well fed - definitely overfed, he appeared about as socially adjusted as any classroom buffoon, he had no objection to shooting other "brainwashed child soldiers", and his job was easy peesy sanitation. It was his first mission that made him go "well, this sucks" but otherwise we were absolutely not shown any supposed "horrors". In fact, it seems that his superiors were rather lax cause he didn't carry himself as a solider at all even when he was in the uniform let alone out of it. You could easily pick him out of the crowd even before his helmet was marked precisely because he carried himself like a rando. OTOH, Dickens kids were appropriately skinny and we were shown that at least Broomboi was abused. So I would say that he learned something new.

 

WE SURE SHOWED THAT TOWN!!!

Yeah Finn, you sure inconvenienced them by making them have to go wake their slave children up at 1am to go clean up your mess.

Does Finn not know how slavery works?

 

How is that new after he saw the stormtroopers kill a town? And the First Order blow up planets? After they'd taken him from his family? And with him seeing Kylo kill someone he'd connected with? Hurt him and someone he cared about?