ST The ST: What Would You Change/Revise?

That was a bit snarky, I admit. But it’s due to the same argument happening over and over again, with the “ESB originally got a lukewarm reception” argument being based on really flimsy evidence. ESB was well-reviewed and well-received by the public, based on the evidence available to us.

 

Oh yeah and I want to make it clear I partly agree with you. Nobody thought ESB was garbage so anyone saying that is certainly embellishing. However again, on a critical level while it wasn't trashed, there's certainly compelling evidence it wasn't as well reviewed as Star Wars by a considerable margin.

I can't find it on the web anymore but did you ever see that screenshot of the ESB score on Rotten Tomatoes in the late 90s? It was at somewhere between 60 to 65 percent fresh before they added more contemporary reviews and Star Wars was at 80-something percent. This is prior to RT adding reviews for the Special Editions. I can personally attest that I saw it on the site itself back then and I distinctly recall that a screenshot of the score circulated on this board a lot because the prequel fans back in the day LOVED to use it as their argument to defend Episodes I and II in light of their critical reception.

Also for the record, I know bringing up my pops was hugely anecdotal. I get that. The only point I was trying to make with that, is that whenever an article or old screenshots show how ESB wasn't considered a masterpiece upon release, it's easy for me to believe, because as a kid as far as I knew, it was the opinion of adults that ESB was thought of as 'alright' because of folks like my father.

 

Good points on Finn. I just watched TFA the other night and he definitely is the most interesting character for much of that film. Rey is boring, IMO. Finn feels realistic as in he’s not just an automatic hero and has doubts. He also doesn’t fully invest himself in the cause but rather decides to just get away from it all which is very realistic and probably what most of us would do. It feels authentic to me. It takes him the whole film to really come around. Well done. Sadly, by the time we get halfway through TLJ his character is abandoned or just thrown out into the horrible Canto Bight cesspool. His relationship with Rey was off to a great start and then disappeared. Too bad.

 

No worries. However, that “study” of the ESB reviews was woefully flawed, cherry-picking reviews that were available online (while most film reviews of ESB at the time have simply not been digitized), etc., while that RT screenshot is nonsense - just a collection of available online reviews, and without any filter, as you get with modern RT. Not to mention the different between today’s review landscape and back then. I mean, Grace Randolf’s film reviews are counted in the RT score. That is not justice.

 

I would have liked them to change things around in the ST....instead of a 'bad' government and'good'rebels, the opposite.
And have it as more shades of grey rather than extremes. Like RO.

 

It would’ve been really refreshing to portray a fully-fledged government (the New Republic) as the clear good guys, rather than creating a splinter paramilitary force just to emulate the Rebels. Because though the Republic was generally in the good guy camp in the PT, it was a government in decline, and being eroded into a dictatorship by the main villain. Here, we could’ve had a sort of Allies of WWII approach, if you will, with the New Republic and Allied systems, still at the height of confidence, deploying their hot shot forces against a new menace of Axis-like forces. The internal drama for the New Republic could’ve been about the folly of overconfidence and understanding the threat to the NR. We got hints of that in the TFA opening crawl and a deleted scene with Leia and her emissary, but IMO, it would’ve been great if that dynamic characterized the whole trilogy. Instead, I’m sorry to say, but the ST really is the OT 2.0. Only not nearly as coherent or satisfying. And with characters that just weren’t as fun to watch.

 

One of the things that we often discussed here, but never surfaced in the films, was the revelation (to New Republic officials and citizens), that the heroes of the rebellion (namely Luke and Leia) were in fact the children of Darth Vader. From a political dynamic perspective, it's that kind of thing that should have been used as a narrative backdrop to the ST i.e. that the New Republic was perceived to be not delivering against expectations, and that the new heroes were in fact just the old villains in different clothing. That kind of thing would have reflected some of the political tensions going on in the world right now... and I would imagine Lucas would have played into some of those themes in a much more overt and interesting way than what actually played out in the ST.

 

Agreed, though they could do this with Rey Palapatine in the future. Doubtful but they have the option.

But agreed that such a dramatic thing was never addressed in movies. And even the book resolved it in kinda limp way.

 

Yep - great idea. Maybe have it so the rebels heads got a little too big with the empire out of things for a while and they end up corrupt as they got more and mmore powerful. Something like that. The continued Empire/First Order/Bad guy thing along with some super-zonker death star thing got old fast by the time the sequels rolled around.

Then they wheel out Palpatine as a desperation move that fell flat for me.

 

This should’ve read “underestimating the threat,” not “understanding” it. Though I suppose the latter is a prerequisite for avoiding the former.

 

Along with alterations, maybe also make Rogue One into a trilogy. Here are the ideas, if He wills, God blessed me with.

Take Jyn Erso, make her into Mara Jade. And essentially have her be Vader's apprentice. Like craft a story of Jyn witness the amoral tendencies of the rebellion, after we develop her as a character that resents that her family paid for the cause of being against the empire, and losing her mom to Krennick and then either losing her dad to him as well, or also to the rebellion having her dad killed. Add to that her growing anger at the deaths of the group that she's bonded with all making sacrifices for the rebellion cause, and then Vader offers her revenge against Krennick and she takes it, in exchange for what ship the plans were sent to.

Rogue Two could have Starkiller as the antagonist. With Ahsoka involved and it could take place in between ANH and TESB, and deal with Vader discovering and reacting to Luke Skywalker's name.

Rogue Three could be after ROTJ and show Mara Jade and Luke meet and fight, even have Luke meet Ahsoka.

 

I would have blown up the Falcon or have it crash and be destroyed.

It served its purpose and iconically being destroyed would have tugged at the audience hearts.

But I knew, as soon as Disney announced a Millennium Falcon ride, this was never going to happen.

 

Blow up the Falcon with Lando, Chewie, R2 and 3PO and wedge inside. Just to make sure nothing from the OT remains.

 

Maybe not Chewie, but I actually thought Lando dying in the Falcon would be a fitting end and sort of poetic seeing as how he was the original owner.

Most people forget Lucas was going to have Lando die in RotJ while piloting the Falcon at the big battle. It’s why Han tells Leia after taking one last look at the Falcon “Why do I feel like I’m never going to see her again?”

I thought JJ then would go back to that for Lando’s fate. But I guess with Carrie/Leia he figured that was too many deaths.

Still wish the Falcon blew up though. That thing’s the equivalent to a real world jalopy.

 

I hated that the Sith Eternal military was copy and pasted from the First Order military except they had red armor. I would've redesigned the Sith Eternal troops to be more distinct than "red stormtroopers."

 

-Find a believable reason for Luke to abandon the Jedi and civilized galaxy -- turning him into a bitter coward who almost killed his own nephew was ridiculous; and completely unbelievable based on the man he was at the end of ROTJ.
- Explore the Finn/Rey romance; and possibly a jealousy angle of Finn to Ben for Rey's love. Imagine Finn/Rey having a rehash of the convo Han/Leia had on Endor.
- Keep Snoke alive until TROS and leave Palpatine out of his. His return was -- ridiculous.

 

Yeah, that really confused me. You'd think they would have this more archaic and ritualistic feel to them but I guess not.

 

but this is exactly where the story starts...in pt...you have the All mighty bigger than itself Democratic republic in power and the jedi in their peak with good guys loosing their ways with the evil separatists rebelling against them?

 

I hope this rumor turns out to be true! This is the only change I dream of!

 

No, they are not going to reset a couple movies just to appease some fanboys..

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

Some... He-he... Wait and see. I will believe and wait for this happy day.
I’ll get drunk that day, even though I don’t drink at all.

 

Replace everything connected with Canto Bight. Add some dark flavor with some mystery related to Palpatine, but don't reveal it's Palpatine yet.

 

Yeah - Canto Bight is what knocks down Last Jedi a notch for me. Hated the entire sequence. It was a pacing/interest killer. Nothing could make me like the "Palpatine regurgitation" thing. I wanted him gone after ROTJ for the reasons that have been discussed numerous times here already.