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Senate The Supreme Court

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ghost, Oct 9, 2011.

  1. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    So, of note, we generally expect the Chief to write the tax opinions -- but I would have expected Gorsuch to write anything tribal related (he's been a pretty go-to guy for tribal rights since getting on SCOTUS oddly)... but he's already authored (I think?) the most opinions of this term, and Breyer and Sotomayor each have five (and none from the May arguments)... but Thomas only has four (and already one from May).

    Lotsa interesting items coming tomorrow...
     
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  2. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 1999
    So the question then becomes, can a Biden administration reverse what Trump has done here? Looks like the majority says 'yes', but Alito says 'no'.

    Interesting. Also on pins-and-needles re: taxes. Good thing I'm working this week to keep me distracted :).
     
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  3. Juliet316

    Juliet316 39x Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Be almost funny if they held off on Trump's Tax Returns until July 15 (the new IRS Tax Date due to the Coronavirus)
     
  4. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

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    Nov 8, 2001
    Kagan's concurrence theoretically sets up a total elimination of this decision on APA grounds, I believe. But yes, the POTUS can also completely bypass this...
     
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  5. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

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    Apr 17, 2006
    So, uh, what do we have to say about two democrats ruling with the majority to take away contraceptive access (and potentially things like prep and hrt)?
     
  6. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

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    Nov 8, 2001
    They acknowledged that, given the existence of the RFRA, and the ability of Executive departments to consider RFRA, this was permissible under the law... or you could read above.
     
  7. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

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    Apr 17, 2006
    Sorry, I should have been more clear. I was looking along more political lines. Liberals (and people left of center in general) are hoping that democratically appointed justices will protect things like women's health rights, and this sort of flies in the face of that.
     
  8. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    And accelerationists generally hold that POTUS doesn't matter... whereas clearly this ruling puts the lie to that too.

    There's only so much a judiciary can do, if there are laws that govern what they can rule on...
     
  9. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001
    I face_plain in their general direction.
     
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  10. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    I will have to read the decision to have a view as to their reasoning (though I generally think we stretch religious freedoms too far at the expense of everything else), but I would say this is an example of why we shouldn't think of judges as political representatives.

    They are not impartial arbiters by any means and they all have their own biases and doctrines, but interpretation of the law is not the same thing as political ideology. You may have a preference, but you're also a judge and have to rule accordingly based on where the law is.

    Judicial ideology is really just about you go about interpreting said law, but at the end of the day you're going to be bound by it. Voters shouldn't think of judges as "our team" and "their team." That just leads to frustration and disappointment.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
  11. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

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    Apr 17, 2006
    A lot of political debate on the presidential election, especially on why a certain candidate should be voted for, etc, stems from this "our team" vs "their team."
     
  12. Lowbacca_1977

    Lowbacca_1977 Chosen One star 7

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    Jun 28, 2006
    The real thing would be getting rid of the RFRA, it'd seem, as it appears quite clear that removing that removes much of the basis for this.

    Or also just make it so that employers don't provide health care, that solves a whole lot of this.
     
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  13. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

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    Nov 8, 2001
    View it like a proper future-state service -- the candidates are basically just a set of Restful APIs, but they're still governed by an underlying set of code (garbage in, garbage out), as well as the back-office systems of laws.

    You tend to believe that Joe Biden is no different than Donald Trump... the ruling here expressly puts a lie to that belief, since we are reasonable certain that Biden's set of APIs wouldn't allow a limitation of the birth control mandate. It's not our team vs. their team, so much as which is more broadly aligned to a set of goals and ideals, which turns into our side and their side, since we're in a two-party system.

    In closing: "Sit down, John, you fat ************!" (A. Ham) (he really wasn't our team vs. their team lol...)
     
  14. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 1999
    This times a thousand. Using the judiciary to advance an agenda is a losing proposition, especially in the long run. Even when one "side" initially wins a battle (such as with Roe or NFIB v Sebelius, etc) it tends to backfire over time. Abortion is the take-home example of this--Roe was a major victory, but it helped fuel the rise of the modern Right by leading to broad electoral takeovers overs of state legislators by anti-choice majorities who then slowly chipped away at access via actual laws.

    It's far more important to win elections and legislate than trying to control the direction of the country via SCOTUS through a "top-down" strategy. That's been a bitter pill for Democrats to swallow, and I'm glad to finally see Republicans learning this as well. Democrats' time would be better spent electing large majorities who support policies that will actually make their lives better, as opposed to enacting them via the courts. If they learned to articulate who they are and convince voters to elect them, then falling back on judges becomes less existential. The Republicans may have an abhorrent agenda, but they know what they stand for and how to sell it. It's hard to argue that hasn't been to their benefit since the Reagan years.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
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  15. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

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    May 4, 2003
    How are the two rulings around hiring/firing rules reconciled? Is the implication now that all Civil Rights Act protections taken second priority to religious beliefs?
     
  16. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

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    Nov 8, 2001
    Yes, although this seems somewhat at least attempted to be constrained to the "ministerial exception," vs. generic staff.
     
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  17. Thena

    Thena Chosen One star 7

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    May 10, 2001
    Trump taxes decision coming this morning......
     
  18. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

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    Nov 8, 2001
    He's already tweeting, so presumably a clerk leaked.



     
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  19. Yodaminch

    Yodaminch Chosen One star 6

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    Mar 6, 2002
    Trump is already raging on Twitter.

    Less than 20 minutes to go. Alas, no drinking today- have to work from home. :p
     
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  20. Thena

    Thena Chosen One star 7

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    May 10, 2001
    Twitter pundits reminding folks that even if the court ruled against orange menace, it would be unlikely to result in his returns being disclosed publicly before November.
     
  21. DarkGingerJedi

    DarkGingerJedi Chosen One star 6

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    Nov 21, 2012
    I love when he screams PRESIDENTIAL HARASSMENT!!!!!. Cuz you know whatever is about to spill, it's gonna be good.
     
  22. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

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    Nov 8, 2001
    Again, the general consensus is that NY will be successful (and therefore tax returns will be governed by Grand Jury secrecy rules), and than Congress will be fully or partially unsuccessful in their subpoenas.
     
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  23. Yodaminch

    Yodaminch Chosen One star 6

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    Mar 6, 2002
    Or, it’s a confession to what he did to Vindman. PRESIDENTIAL HARASSMENT!!!!
     
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  24. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

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    Nov 8, 2001
    We have McGirt v. Oklahoma first...

    EDIT: And it's by Gorsuch, who appears to continue to be a staunch defender of Native tribal rights and treaties...
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
  25. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 1999
    And Vindman has just been forced to resign.

    EDIT: 5-4 in McGirt. Oklahoma's land remains an Indian reservation under the treaty. Gorsuch with the liberals. Wow. That's twice in one week!
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
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