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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit The Trades Thread (Discussion and Review for All Comic TPBs)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Ben, Sep 3, 2012.

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  1. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 29, 2005
    I just wish, to start with, they'd be more ambitious with the Vader stuff itself. Instead of just, "Hey, we need another story where Vader smashes some enemies of the Empire shortly after ROTS," take the fact that the Vader name will sell the comic and do something daring with the comic. Give us a pre-ANH Vader story that revolves around his rivalry with Xizor -- a conspiracy/thriller plotline where Vader's mainly working out his play at court intellectually, with period bursts of action punctuating the story. Or rope in Jerec or Tremayne for a team-up in a big military campaign against a gang of Jedi holed up with a loyal army and navy on a remote world. Or Darth Vader and the Black Eight. Or let Soontir Fel co-star in a pre-ROTJ Darth Vader story about hunting down some Rebel force. Or have him go ferret out who's the Rebel traitor in a moff's administration. Something that changes up the form a little, and uses the sales power of Vader to bring some more exciting, fan-favorite, or lesser-known characters back into the spotlight. Let's see a little experimentation.
     
  2. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Sadly, I think you'll remain disappointed Hav, though I like the ideas.
     
  3. BoromirsFan

    BoromirsFan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 16, 2010
    Experimentation isn't likely when the future of the license is so uncertain. I think DOTJ and TSW is the most experimental stuff we will see.
     
  4. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Or they could get, you know, really experimental and... come closer as I need to day this very, very quietly...

    ...not set a story straight after ANH, but in 2 ABY! OMG! How risqué would that be!!!! :eek:

    (Honestly, this is a serious point, as stuff like the Leia novel are probably what will be "experimental" in the future :p)
     
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  5. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Star Wars: Knight Errant: Volume 3: Escape

    Hmm, maybe it should have been titled Escape From Publishing! as yet another smart, innovative and risky SW comic series comes to an end, felled by the Death Star of low sales. Series like Knight Errant really do tend to puncture the fan demand for new stories because it is a new story but not enough people bought it! And before anyone says oh but they meant to, if you're not getting the comics due to cost, then grab the trade quick because greater trade sales might have made a difference! As it is, Knight Errant's dead, Agent of the Empire to follow, Dawn of the Jedi? Be surprised if it makes past series 3!

    Still, it has to go, does it go out a la Odion, super-depressed and mournful, or does it tap Daiman for a truly glorious, madly ambitious finish? The latter of course! If there's one character more than any other who perhaps truly defines this series it's Daiman - the ultimate narcissistic egoist, whose megalomania has convinced him he created the universe and everything in it! And yes, does he believe it! In some respect the feuding brothers would be enough, but JJM went further and created an entire family of feuding psychos, all reigned over by Vilia, whose hand it is that sets them against but they don't object. Not the sharpest knives in the drawer then!

    So, villains? Done. Hero? What do you mean heroine? Oh, great. Yeah, that'll work well. Just what I need - a snarling, super-combative, no wait, super "assertive", violent brawling heroine who has to be that way because all the blokes are. Oh yeah and because she's, like, empowered, she'll be wearing little or have clothing that leaves little to the imagination. Hmm, do you hear the sound of a caricature being popped? Yes indeed and it's one the things I loved about the series. Kerra Holt is a great character to get behind, yet, at the same time, she's flawed - she's 18, mistakes are going to happen - but is never entirely defined by her flaws. She's smart and confident enough to know to not need to engage in any grand-standing displays, she gets exasperated with people because she doesn't understand why they've been so crushed, then later she does. Flawed yet heroic is a very hard trick pull off and the chances of doing so only get harder with a female lead due to the swirl of social expectations that are applied to such characters. She's also a character who isn't defined by power but intelligence, having her out-duel experienced Sith Lords like Odion and Daiman wouldn't fly, out-thinking them due to their own arrogance and self-inflicted blind spots? Oh yes.

    Oh and then, just for the hell of it, the series throws in a jet-pack wearing, vibro-ax packing Hutt! Yeah, seriously. How can you not support a series that has that?

    Changing tack, it would be very easy to dismiss Kerra as an ineffective lead. She doesn't defeat all of the Sith, she can't. Her victories are smaller but no less in substance for that. In this respect, this final volume continues that tradition, with her managing to redeem someone who long considered himself way past any hope of it. She also manages to pull off a final victory over Odion, although it's limited as the other, piranha-like, consume his holdings. The question the series has asked all along is what to do when evil has won? The Sith are on top and they're staying that way, so should the Jedi give up, should Kerra conclude it's hopeless? No, the idea is fight where you can, how you can, without becoming the enemy in all their variety and get whatever victories you can. Enough? It'll have to be.

    Escape is an excellent, if premature, finale for a short-lived series. It manages to be smart, complex and savvy in how it tells its tale, it doesn't talk down to the reader nor does it fall victim to excess in execution. The one shame? That I won't get to see Kerra's final victory over Daiman, she's going to get that eventually - and it'll surprise her as much as it does him, until he concludes as creator of the universe, he has to kill himself because no one else can and Kerra is his appointed tool!

    Read the book and TPBs volume 1-2? What are you waiting for then? Not read any of it? Again, what are you waiting for? Go get it.
     
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  6. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2010
    I still need to read Escape, come to think of it.
     
  7. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Baby Daiman finds your lack of faith disturbing.

    [​IMG]

    There can be no victory over the Creator of All. His Lordship is triumphant and shall rule the stars forevermore!
     
  8. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Ah, but every creator needs an end and what better than one that is a total surprise?
     
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  9. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Is it possible that Daiman created the Glove in a last act of triumph? Perhaps he transferred his essence to it, so that he may rule through whoever is worthy to wield it?
     
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  10. Rew

    Rew Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Jedi Ben: What does it say about me that I liked your little review even more than Escape itself? :p

    instantdeath: Psh! Please. Everyone knows Daiman transferred his essence into Waru so as to realize his true and full lordship over the cosmos. ;)
     
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  11. credar

    credar Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 18, 2011
    I was looking through the omnibus list and found out that Honor and Duty from Republic was never collected. (Other issues weren't collected, but they take place during the Dark Times and will probably end up going with an upcoming Dark Times omnibus.) Is Honor and Duty worth hunting down? Anything important or cool for any characters during the storyline?
     
  12. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 29, 2005
    Honor and Duty is likely to be collected with the Dark Times stories. It introduces the character Sagoro Autem, a neat character -- a Senate Guard who has to protect a Senator targeted for assassination, but he's also just a regular guy, who has problems with his family at home. The thing is that Sagoro's arc is continued with a few minor appearances as a supporting character in the Clone Wars run of Republic, then he gets to be the main character again for one issue, which sort of concludes his individual arc. That last issue is a post-Clone Wars issue of Republic, and it was collected with Honor and Duty in the original Honor and Duty trade paperback. So the odds are that they want to keep that issue together with Honor and Duty, and they're going to put Honor and Duty in with the Dark Times material to do it.
     
  13. Grand Admiral Crumb

    Grand Admiral Crumb Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2013
    Honor and Duty is a good arc, but I just don't like the art very much.
     
  14. werpudel

    werpudel Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 4, 2008
    got Darth Vader and the Ghost Prison yesterday and - wow - that one was great. pretty intense ending and also in between with Drachta taking it out on the prisoner... can't remember when a SW comics was so brutal. pretty good read!
     
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  15. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Also read Ghost Prison just now. It was pretty fantastic, featuring great Vader and some great character stuff. The appearance of Trachta was especially delightful, and featured great characterization, and I liked Tohm's evolution. I'm not sure it was as great as advertised, though -- I've had enough of Vader getting Anakin-style pissy, and the logic of the plot is pretty thin. It should not be that complicated to execute one rebellious general. All Vader had to do was comm a couple top commanders, and tell them that there's an attempted coup on Imperial Center, bring troops now. This clown Gentis can't have subverted millions of people across the Imperial military. And that's where the timing is another big problem of the series. It's set a few months post-ROTS, but a lot of the concepts seem rooted in a longer history -- Gentis was a Clone Wars hero in the field, but he's also had time to become the Academy commandant and churn out thousands and thousands of loyal students? And to get ridiculously radicalized by seeing his men die? The story really would have been better served by being set ten years or so into the Empire -- this arbitrary ban on going too far into the Dark Times due to the mythical live-action TV series that will never exist is really hurting all the stuff claiming to depict the era.

    I'm also not a big fan of the way the Confederate prisoners bought in to the Empire. "Anyone who brought down the Republic I fought against is fine with me" is swell as far as motivation when Vader and Tohm can sell it to the prisoners in the limited-information environment they're in (though the issue of why they're wearing Republic uniforms should still exist), but it shouldn't be persisting once they have the opportunity to realize that the Empire isn't a distinct entity, it's just the Republic they fought repackaged. "I hate the Republic under Palpatine because it killed my family, but I'll happily serve Palpatine as long as he's declared himself dictator of the Republic now!" doesn't really fly. There could have been a neat twist there, but it didn't go anywhere.

    Overall, despite the limitations in Blackman's storytelling, it gets enough across in tone, atmosphere, and the central story of Tohm's development and Vader and Palpatine's implacable badassery that it's definitely a great read.

    I read Knight Errant: Escape too. Definitely the best arc of the series to date, and it makes it a pity the series was canceled right when it was really finding its feet. Great art (though the anachronistic Clone Wars vehicle appearances/ripoffs are maddening), and a really great story of Kerra delivering hope and help while struggling through some personal stuff that I think helped define her as a character more and give her more personality. I'm really, really disappointed that we won't be getting more Knight Errant, though at least the series went out on top.
     
  16. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    That reminds me - was it just me or did anyone have Sean Bean's voice in their head for Gentis when reading Ghost Prison?
     
  17. werpudel

    werpudel Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 4, 2008
    trades are starting to trickle in one by one here in Austria. got the latest Knight Errant yesterday and read through it in one go. I don't know, Kerra Holt just doesn't do it for me. What must have been the final two single issues were ok, the rest - not so overwhelming.

    don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved JJM's KOTR run (adored it, even) and also liked the LTOFS, but that whole Knight Errant thing, comics and novel, just didn't interest me. I'm a completionist, though, and so I'll get whatever they'll churn out in the future (if they do). has anybody else had that weird feeling about that whole time-slot? In my opinion it was just too goofy, what with Daiman and Odion and so on. they were like caricatures of Sith Lords. No wonder Bane decided to kill them all of ;)
     
  18. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Hmm, I'm curious.

    In what way did Diaman and Odion come across as caricatures for you?
     
  19. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    You know I love Knight Errant, Ben, but you've gotta admit, there were times...

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jul 22, 2010
    Daiman isn't a person. He's a force of nature.

    Scratch that. He is nature.
     
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  21. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

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    Jul 19, 1999
    Yes, but Zorr, he's a megalomaniacal lunatic!
     
  22. werpudel

    werpudel Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 4, 2008
    well, daiman and odion are just... raving lunatics. but not in a "good" sith sense. but that's just my humble opinion ;) for me it's like what you get when you give two small - overpowered - force-sensitive kids red lightsabres and tell them to just, well, go at it
     
  23. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Personally, I've always believed that's the point of their characters. They're closer to squabbling children than anything, and that's what makes them so fun to read about :cool:
     
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  24. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    But... but...

    [​IMG]

    ...okay, maybe you've got a point. :p
     
  25. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    In part though, they are squabbling children because that is what their controlling mother Vilia wishes them to be, what'd happen after all if she permitted them to wise up to what she was doing?
     
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