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Senate The UK Politics discussion

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ender Sai , Jan 6, 2015.

  1. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Bitterest Ex-Mod star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    And of course Corbyn's a professional long-term Eurosceptic who ensured that Labour was a limp force in Brexit campaigning, thus taking his position seriously enough to ensure he gets his early 1970s dystopian vision at all costs.

    Should definitely praise him.
     
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  2. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    • Northern Ireland to remain in the single market and custom union
    • ECJ will have a say, when it is unclear, on EU nationals vs UK nationals
    • 50 billion euro 'divorce bill' is apparently settled too.
    In other words, the UK has agreed to every position the EU wanted
     
  3. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    [face_laugh] Wow, the Mail / Sun headlines tomorrow are going to be nuts.

    As to Hameron, the way the referendum was set up will be deemed as exemplary in terms of his sheer arrogance. He absolutely should have set a minimum victory percentage threshold. He didn't because? He assumed he'd win anyway.

    As it played out, I suspect even if that had been in place it would have been over-riden by the Brexiteers due to a lack of any politician with a spime enough to stand up to their crap.

    So all roads still lead to where we are now.
     
  4. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    From someone I talked to, Northern Ireland 'agreement' is just a fudge. The current system and rules will remain in place, until both London and Dublin can agree upon a new system.

    It is merely interim and allows the EU to move towards a FTA (which is not going to be achieved in two years. At least five, IMHO)
     
  5. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016
    ..or rather offered a view of the EU that wasn't the Tory/Blairite "keep the status quo or else" and instead talked it up as a net positive that needed reform. The kind of view that might have gotten some leave votes to switch but was totally ignored until the establishment got panicy a couple of weeks before the vote and even then they couldn't hold themselves back from constant undermining.
     
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  6. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    Corbyn campaigned to remain but the media pretty much ignored him during Brexit , he was treated as a figure of fun/ irrelevancy until the election upset this year .
    This is the story over and over - the politicians and the media have their narrative , the pollsters confirm it and then it all goes to **** , and they all go : "What just happened ?"
    What happens is that they don't listen to what the public are saying , they got Brexit wrong , they got the U.S. election wrong , they got the UK election wrong this year .

    the British public have been asking for a referendum for decades , turns out they don't trust the EU ( who knew ? LOL!)
     
  7. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    There was one - 1975. After that, from about 1980 onwards the right-wing press devoted much time and resources to running Euro-scare stories. 36 years later their investment paid off. I don't know exactly when the British press started running anti-Europe stories but it's certainly been going over 30 years, so that there are people for who, their entire lives, all they've heard about Europe in the press is: Bad! Bad! Bad! BAD! So, not a surprise they voted leave.

    Add in that people didn't link things like easy holidays and the Calais booze cruises to being part of the EU because the Remain campaign assumed they didn't need to be told.

    Plus a government record of neglect in lots of areas, which got spun as being the EU's fault. (Yes, people in those regions expect the government to replace the EU funding when it ends - they're in for a nasty shock.)

    All adds up to the narrow win for Leave, which was still built on a foundation of pure Johnson-Farage-Gove premium bullcrap, which they immediately starting backing out off within hours of their 'win'.

    (Of course what this all hides is that the EU does what its members tell it to via the Council of Ministers, who set the Commission. The reason to hide this? Because it would put the responsibility for everything back onto the British government and that's not wanted.)
     
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  8. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Bitterest Ex-Mod star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    I mean, I feel like you're giving Corbyn a pass he doesn't deserve. If Cameron was arrogant in assuming victory and thus not establishing a clear 2/3rds majority threshold (which arguably would have left the result as it stood now as "proof" another go was needed), then it required anyone who believed in remaining to mount a defence. Corbyn did not, and since he's had a long history of voting against membership in the common market and indeed of euroscepticism (so progressive!) he needed to do more than he did. Which is to say he didn't campaign for remain and get ignored; he put bugger all effort in because whilst the party wanted remain, he wanted to leave and he wanted those people who weren't mindless Corbots out of the party.
     
  9. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    I'm sceptical that Corbyn had that much widespread, mass influence at the time. Labour were deemed to be on the ropes, engaged in eternal internal fratricide so who's going to listen to those guys?

    When May called that election earlier in the year, there was a logic to it, as Labour's internal punch-up had been running over a year, then an entire set of wildcards hit the election out of nowhere - principally May being a terrible campaigner and Corbyn capitalising on discontent with the Tories, but in 2015? I don't think anyone cared much about them.

    If there is a second referendum, with full knowledge of what's really at stake combined with Corbyn's boosted profile and influence then yes, it'll be far more damning if he screws that up.

    In hindsight, the referendum epitomises the same reason vs emotion conflict that Trump used to win. The biggest problem for anyone wanting to combat that emotion-based politics is how to do so successfully. I'm not sure there is a way because Trump and Brexit have proven people will believe whatever they want, evidence be damned. Which doesn't bode well for a second referendum of any kind.
     
  10. Point Given

    Point Given Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2006
    And DUP sunk the deal apparently. Did May seriously try and sneak that by them?
     
  11. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012

    Who knows. Lots of finger pointing at the moment.
     
  12. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Balls, that date should be 2016, not 2015.
     
  13. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    It is 2017
     
  14. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Bitterest Ex-Mod star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001


    What is Ed doing these days?
     
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  15. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Just tweeting.
     
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  16. Dame sans merci

    Dame sans merci Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2016
    Welp. David David admitted today that there have been NO Brexit sector impact assessments, despite saying two months ago they had 50 or 60 completed.

    This is all going swimmingly, isn't it?
     
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  17. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Buried under the edstone isn't he?
     
  18. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Bitterest Ex-Mod star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Is there any point in doing the analysis? I mean, you can't polish the turd of Brexit, so might as well just prepare for everything being awful.
     
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  19. FatBurt

    FatBurt Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Don't "defend" him


    A complete dereliction of duty.


    We know full well that the analysis would point to everything being awful but he should have at least done it.
     
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  20. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    The way Brex**** is going I expect Davis to be replaced by:

    [​IMG]

    THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE CANNOT BE DENIED.

    WE WILL HAVE NO DEAL.

    WE WILL BE PURE, WE WILL BE VIGILANT, WE WILL BE BRAVE.
     
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  21. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Bitterest Ex-Mod star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001


    Look, think of it this way.

    You'll need every quid you've got for the coming Brexpocalypse (or if you get a Labour government, as they'll spend it all in the first hour) so he did you a favour. By skipping the assessments that would confirm everything is buggered, you've saved like £50 or something that you can use later.
     
  22. FatBurt

    FatBurt Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Do you think he'll let me have it so I can go buy some cheap booze and drink myself into oblivion?


    you're off a couple of decimal points too, 0.50p is probably closer to what we've saved considering the general numptiness of our government and there's probably a penalty clause that mean we have to pay the assessors £50 provided they at least deliver a little something of some nature so we'll still be out of pocket.
     
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  23. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Bitterest Ex-Mod star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001


    They would have outsourced it to a consultancy firm, hence why 50p becomes £50.
     
  24. FatBurt

    FatBurt Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Yep, Can I have more whisky please?
     
  25. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Bitterest Ex-Mod star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Sure. You'll have to import it from the Republic of Scotland or Republic of Ireland though.