Senate The UK Politics discussion

National Front/Marine Le Pen's last electoral results
Immigration rhetoric around Leave Campaign

*blinks*

Yes, the bastion of tolerance.

 

That's worse in a parliamentary system with multiple parties.

 

It is only noxious if it becomes about the conquest of power - and that's in common with bipartism. But when no one is big enough on their own, a working government means working with others, and that's a good thing.

 

Which is better done in a primary system, through giving the people a direct say, instead of backroom deals.

 

Coalitions are a thing in politics, and allow different sensitivities to be represented. We've had stable coalitions forming our parliamentary majorities from 1973 until 2002, be they between roughly equal parties (on the right) or centered on a dominant party (on the left) - it is functional. And those coalitions were known ahead of time.

 

Coalitions will always happen, and that's basically what a party is, especially in a two-party system. The primary system is still superior because it's more democratic.

 

In how it always leaves more peoole unrepresented than not? Besides, look at the results of bipartism in the USA. How much did primaries to prevent the deliberate rigging of the electoral system and the radicalisation of its politics?

 

Again, that last point seems like a terrible argument. Many major Western democracies of various styles seem to be in a kind of crisis. They aren’t preventing the rise of radical ideologies or satisfying the public. The guy from the country where Marine Le Pen is surging can’t credibly complain about the radicalism of other nations.

I think some of the flaws you two are discussing transcend the particulars of a system.

 

Ironically, the surge of Marine le Pen here is one of the results of a failed attempt at establishing a bipartisan system with the aid of an ill-thought reform of institutions, followed by an opportunistic campaign that openly seeks to establish itself as the only possible middle ground and encouraged radical oppositions.

And despite a hung parliament in our lower chamber and a strong far-right representation, our institutions turn out to be quite functional, with two of the three oppositions (the right and... the far-right...) willing to support government proposals they consider to be in the public interest (see the current legislating on an aid package to alleviate the effects of inflation), and vote against those they consider aren't (see the recent rejection of a COVID vaccine pass at the borders).

On another note, I'd rather be the guy from the country where Marine le Pen is surging but failing to reach power than the country that has already elected Trump for four years and is about to give a proto-fascist party renewed control of its parliament in a few months.

But that's a discussion better moved to European politics or US politics.

 

I guess Badenoch wasn't Goodenoch .

haha! ... ha ...... ha

I'll get me coat.

 

Mordaunt out

Truss will beat Sunak

May the lord have mercy on our souls

Gone Mobile

 

A part of me does find it quite funny that they've managed to pick two of the most incompetent people in government right now as the final two candidates. You've got Rishi Sunak, a man who's hated by sane people for his handling of the economy and by Tories for the NI tax increases. A potential Prime Minister who doesn't even know that Darlington isn't in Scotland.

Then there's Liz Truss, a woman so ill-suited for high office that she's not allowed in elevators and who has as much charisma and personality as a deflated souffle.

On the plus side, I can imagine a not inconsiderable number of Tories raging at having a choice between a brown man and a woman.

 

Abstention will tell the tale of whether that is a real consideration or an imaginary one.

 

If the contest is not evidence enough, the last few years prove that:

A woman can hate other women
A member of an ethnic minority is entirely capable of being racist to the minority they are part of
And, like Constructicons, these kind of attitudes can combine.

In short? Diversity of being is not guaranteed to result in diversity of thought or empathy. Anyone can be a crapbag.

 

But only a Tory can truly master the art.

 

Liz Truss ?

Liz Truss ??!!

 

A proud graduate of the "if you don't like these principles I have others" school.

With a chip on both shoulders.

 

Want to go to France via Dover? Six hours to clear security checks.

The Port of Dover's response? Blame the French.

 

Brexit means Brexit.

 

Dover should have been smarter and blamed Macron and they'd have some agreement from France.

 

Not with England in demand. You aren't going to find a French constituency of any signicance that sympathizes with English woes about the consequences of Brexit. Those who might also want closed borders and national preference.

 

Pretty certain I was posting a while back that stuff like this had to happen. But what I clearly underestimated is people's sheer unwillingness to link delays and aggro to Brexit!

 

What about Nadine Dorries?

I don't see how. Having some sort of primaries or a member-vote isn't in any way bound to a two party system. Nor are there somehow less backroom deals. Especially when any sort of coalition may actually be decided by members voting about the final outcome.

A two-party systems means fewer choices, people are forced to vote for large blobs that may only broadly represent their views, making voting for the least bad option far more likely than voting for the actual favourite. It is also more likely to cause a divide into two groups that grow further and further apart, turning it more into a competition than what the true purpose of parliament should be. Votes for smaller parties are basically irrelevant as well.